Wanted Genetics!!!! Help me plz

[RatherBBurnin]

Hey guys,
I just wanted to make a post to see if anyone on MP would be able to help me... I am trying to breed myself the marc emery strain i was talking about a few weeks ago... I asked marc personally what he would want to be his namesake strain.... and his answer was white widow (ww) x Blueberry (bb) x Haze... So i am in need of information on breeding those three specifically.. as well as where to obtain, by purchase or trade, these three pure strains....

Im a rookie at breeding but ive decided to give it a go, because i feel strongly that marc should have his own signature series... after my email to sensi didnt even get a reply... i figure i should come to the people of this forum If you can help in any way at all.. please PM me.....




Thanks

[bombbudpuffa]

WW-Greenhouse Seeds, BB-DJ Shorts or Dutch Passion, Haze-Mr. Nice(i'm pretty sure he has a couple hazes)

[RatherBBurnin]

Approx prices of each?? i know dutch passion was expensive... also.. do you know any seed banks that would make me a mix pack of the three.. or am i stuck buying three packs of 10... since i need a male at some point..
how do you feel my method of crossing them in would work.. by recrossing with the male again.. will it give more of the properties of one or is it the female that gives the most???

[bombbudpuffa]

Approx prices of each?? i know dutch passion was expensive... also.. do you know any seed banks that would make me a mix pack of the three.. or am i stuck buying three packs of 10... since i need a male at some point..
how do you feel my method of crossing them in would work.. by recrossing with the male again.. will it give more of the properties of one or is it the female that gives the most???They are expensive. I doubt if you can get a mix pack. Far as methods...i'm new at the breeding thing so I don't want to give you false advice.

[Mutt]

When planning a breed. I would not dive in so fast. Try crossing first. DJ shorts are not cheap either. but at least with the price you know your getting stable f1's.

I would start by reading these links here:
This is just the basics. ;)

Breeding Guides:
Mendal's Genetic Laws (http://users.adelphia.net/~lubehawk/BioHELP!/mendel.htm) (must read)
Marijuana Botany An Advanced Study: The Propagation and Breeding of Distinctive Cannabis by Robert Connell Clarke (http://www.mellowgold.com/grow/mjbotany-removed/)
The Art of Selection and Breeding Fine Quality Cannabis (http://cannabisculture.com/articles/2788.html) by DJ Short
Breeding Tips (http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/2600.html) By DJ Short

I would also look up as much as possible DJ Shorts material. He is very informative.
I'll post more later. ;)

When starting any true breed expense on your seeds should not be spared. Otherwise your traits will be all over the place.
There are (crosses) which is simply allowing a male pollenate a female. Breeding is much more advanced and selection is by far the most difficult process. It takes several grows to "select" the right parents with stable qualities crossing them. Then backcrossing to stabilize even more.

Study Mendal's Law. Study and study some more. This is pretty hard stuff to absorb.

That's why I recommend doing simple crosses to start. I haven't even attempted a breed yet. I've tried a few crosses, but I have studied a lot on it, just haven't had life calm down enough to let me really dive in. (AKA life first herb second) Now if someone would move me (to an MJ freindly country) and pay me to breed that would be different. :p

[RatherBBurnin]

Ill start my reading now.. i guess i am trying to just make a cross... i could always look and find a blueberryx ww strain somewhere im sure.. then just cross in the super silver haze.... would this produce the same thing i am looking for???

[bombbudpuffa]

Maybe, but you will probably get a lot of diff phenos.

[RatherBBurnin]

Maybe, but you will probably get a lot of diff phenos.


I have a lot to read.. but by phenos.. you mean like different types and balances of the cross... like the seeds will produce different plants... and it takes years of careful selection until you can produce seeds with uniformity???

[bombbudpuffa]

I think that's how it works. Someone will have to confirm this though.

[KingKahuuna]

I have cross bred many things, lots of peach tree variety's and apple tree as well, Heck even cats, but these breeds take a half a life time to see if you got it right. I'm thinking with mj, you obviously get short turn around times. Sounds like a cool project to me, I can see where this could go. A name sake strain ?
Why not have something you developed named after you yeah, that sounds too cool. I would like to follow along on that bro.
smoke in peace
KingKahuuna

[RatherBBurnin]

Well, its not about me...i dont think i have given enough back to the movement to give myself a strain named after me.. but jack, ed got strains.. i think marc is about to make the biggest sacrific for this culture we all love.. hes deserving of the namesake.. so i wanna try and make it.. and see where it leds me......

I started to read the genetic laws and i think i understand mostly.... so mutt correct me if im wrong... I basically need to recross and backcross between said plants to get the proper traits.. then by selecting the best male and best female.. and can make generations... after a few generations of breeding the best male and female.. and will get a consistant strain....???

I know its lay mans terms.. but im just trying to explain it and understand it the best i can.. so i can kinda relate to it...

[Mutt]

Well, its not about me...i dont think i have given enough back to the movement to give myself a strain named after me.. but jack, ed got strains.. i think marc is about to make the biggest sacrific for this culture we all love.. hes deserving of the namesake.. so i wanna try and make it.. and see where it leds me......

I started to read the genetic laws and i think i understand mostly.... so mutt correct me if im wrong... I basically need to recross and backcross between said plants to get the proper traits.. then by selecting the best male and best female.. and can make generations... after a few generations of breeding the best male and female.. and will get a consistant strain....???

I know its lay mans terms.. but im just trying to explain it and understand it the best i can.. so i can kinda relate to it...

ok man, there are two things you have to look at "Alleles" (forgive me if my spelling is off...but its the principle I am trying to portray). Those are fixed...in the genetic code (I think I am rusty at my knowledge and is in much need of refreshing). Pheno's is the variance of genetic crosses. The closer to parents the less pheno charecteristics will show up. pheno being variences (damn where is hick when I need him). Those you need to control and isolate to gain the desired charcteristics. Now for the hard part (for me at least). When back crossing a "theory" of in-breeding depression may occur (if I got this right). When back-crossing your basically in-breeding the plant and hidden traits may reveal themselves when least expected.

Get back to mendal (as I am tonite and refresh been months since I even looked at this). He will explain the principle. It is difficult as so many factors play into pheno determination. AKA the notorious Northern Lights. It's pheno was designed for total indoor grow down to ht. and bud/leaf ratio. The simple truth is what plants hold the characteristics you want and isolating them to a f1 true unique breed. Screw naming it. If you do this and create a unique F1 that is stable and true....then it's yours buddy not Emery's. ;) Anything other than a true F1 of a stable pheno then no one deserves to name it than you. This will take grow after grwo after grow.

A simple cross and a name is what is called in the circle (a hack). basicall taking someones hard work and naming it yourself when all it is...is a cross. Welcome to breeding. DJ worked years even decades developing his blueberry. ;) Much of the whole truth's such as landraces and such conversation is held under lock and key by the greats. Which I am not even a hack...just someone who loves learning about herb. :)

[Mutt]

another note:
Environment has a big factor in the pheno type of a plant. It WILL adapt and take on the characteristics of it's envirnment. AKA natural selection. So the environment MUST be consistant. ;) (AKA a true lab)

[KingKahuuna]

Hey, If you two got room on this ride, I would be grateful to learn as well, and will pick up the literature required. I love to learn, and will bust butt to keep up if you don't mind.
smoke in peace
KingKahuuna

[Mutt]

Hey, If you two got room on this ride, I would be grateful to learn as well, and will pick up the literature required. I love to learn, and will bust butt to keep up if you don't mind.
smoke in peace
KingKahuuna

Not a problem dude,
Just not my strong suit. I didn't take botany. So I will lean back on literature. I would check out those links to start. but your brain will get full fast. Esp. when it gets into identifying traits. whew.

[KingKahuuna]

Thanks Heaps Mutt,
As long as RatherBBurnin is cool with it to, then I am in for the long haul. I'm medically retired, and so far have beat out the question mark the Doc's have hung over my head, They did me one favor though, every morning I wake up drawing in air is a good day. When they said put your affairs in order, I said nope not today, today I learn. At the ripe age of 52 yrs old I have rediscovered the joy of learning, and though I suffer a bit from being competitive I love to rise up to a good difficult challenge.
This site is helpful in the extreme for me, and you know I got this big goofy smile on my mug every time I'm reading posts. I read them and then laugh my butt off over some, or scratch my head, or think, "Yeah I can do that". The only thing missing is finishing my growbox, and that is only a day or two away. and then I get to share pics too, and then the grow, and then the buds, and then the curing , and then the smoking, and then AAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaa (poof) gone. LOL

Then I'll slide the experiments in, OOhhhh fun, Ha- Ha

smoke in peace
KingKahuuna

[RatherBBurnin]

Yea as soon as i get everything set up, im going to dive head first into this crossing and breeding stuff... and with trial and error.. im sure ill figure it out... mutt was right tho.. there is a lot of information... just the stuff on genetic code is long... ive found that a lot is principal on genetics as a whole.. i think im going to look into djs stuff where he directly applies everything to mj.... ahhhhhh why did i miss horticultural class in highschool.. WHY?????

[KingKahuuna]

I never studied Horticulture in school either, but My fam was into it, and Grandpa could graft using several methods, so I just started picking up a little here and a little there. Over the years of asking questions I learned a lot, and now a very cool friend of mine graduated with his masters in Horticulter. He is cool about what I do and use, so yeppers, you guessed it, I'm going to pick his brains apart, and with the two of you and Stoney to boot, I'm bound to discover that there really is gold at the end of the rainbow. I'm looking forward to some great conversations comparing what we have picked up and learned. Ha-Ha here is the first bet: He who invents the first strain that you can tap like a maple tree wins right, LOL- Jeez I crack myself up. !!!!
thanks guys.
smoke in peace
KingKahuuna

[RatherBBurnin]

Ahhh the infamous canadian maple strain.... indeed thats a rare one....


Im interested in really creating this triple cross marc came up with..crossing blueberry and white widow is insane... throw in some super silver haze and its a wrap..

[KingKahuuna]

Yeah, I can see it all clearly. Stoney gave me the first clue with his oil, the bunch of us will end up with our snoots down in the rug, babbling like our brains have totally disengaged. MMM-HHHMM yeah buddy can't think of a better way to go, LOL
smoke in peace
KingKahuuna

[RatherBBurnin]

Yea I will be saving all my trimmings for a while, and then be making some serious bubble hash.... i dont think i could put myself to use a pound a real piff.. but then again.the end result is pure bliss..

[bombbudpuffa]

Quote from MJ Botany by Robert C. ClarkeOccasionally hybrid offspring will prove inferior to both parents but the first generation may still contain recessive genes for a favorable characteristic seen in a parent if the parent was homozygous for that trait.First generation(F1) hybrids are therefore inbred to allow recessive genes to recombine and express that desired parental trait. Many breeders stop with the first cross and never realize the genetic potential of their strain.They fail to produce an F2 generation by crossing or self-pollinating F1 offspring.Since most domestic cannabis strains are F1 hybrids for many characteristics, great diversity and recessive recombination can result from inbreeding domestic hybrid strains. These F2 hybrids are more likely to express recessive parental traits. From the F2 hybrid generation selections can be made for parents which are used to start new true breeding strains. Indeed, F2 hybrids might appear with more extreme characteristics than either of the P1 parents. (For example, P1 high THC x P1 low THC yields F1 hybrids of intermediate THC content. Selfing the F1 yields F2 hybrids of both P1[high and low THC] phenotypes, intermediate F1 phenotypes and extra high THC as well as extra low THC phenotypes.)From what I gather, if you want true breeding strains You'd take P1s(ww and BB) sex them and make F1s. Then you'd sex the F1s and get F2s. From these F2s you would then select parents for a true breeding strain. You can also back cross the F1s to the original P1s to produce off spring with reinforced parental characteristics. Man, you have a lot of work to do:D.

[RatherBBurnin]

Yea thats how i understood it as well.. i was planning on crossing the male WW with a female BB to get my f1... then taking that female BBxWW and crossing back in the male BB.. to give it more bb traits.. that should produce my BBxWW the way i want... making my f2.... then one i have that one producing.. ill work on cross my whiteberry x super silver haze... which in the end will produce my WhiteBerryHazy.. aka Marc Emery... I figure i can have the BBxWW f2s ready to select parents by the end of the year.....
Ive also looked at just starting with bluewidow by joey weed.. and crossing in the Super Silver Haze.. to make a f1.. then selecting to make f2s... kinda skips a step.. but its also like cheating...

[bombbudpuffa]

Ive also looked at just starting with bluewidow by joey weed.. and crossing in the Super Silver Haze.. to make a f1.. then selecting to make f2s... kinda skips a step.. but its also like cheating...A lot of people would consider taking others genetics and crossing them cheating. I would go withthe JW strain too just to skip a step:). You're taking a lot of time out of your life for ME, hope you come up with something thats killer!

[DangerMouse]

Yup Yup. Now I'm seeing the discussions I'm looking for.

Clarke's book is the most informative and sound available on the net -- reading it is what got me insterested in breeding MJ. Why breed it? Because it is hard.

Are you guys breeding for any specific traits?