Teachers...?

[MrPuffAlot]

Pardon me, i dont want to be flamed.
Im just keeping it real.

I respect teachers and think they should get more respect and etc.
BUT when it comes to their pay. Im starting to think other wise.

Im not quite sure how much they actually make but.. DANG..

I always hear about how they are under paid and yada yada yada
they want more and this and that and this and that.

BUT COME ON.. LORD Have mercy...

Teachers get:

- 3-4 month vacation for summer (which they can find summer jobs or other part time jobs. To suppliment their salaries

My son just started Kindergarden, and viewing the school schedule.
DO THEY EVEN WORK????

Since the start of the school year. They have yet to work a FULL WEEK.
And looking at the rest of the schedule for this month. THey wont
work a full week this month at all, even after the summer break.

Im not even sure how the schedule is for October. Then NOV. you
have your weeks off for Thanks giving, December for winter break
and Xmas, and etc.. THATS ON TOP OF ALL OPTIONAL days,
sick days, vacation days and etc etc etc.

So lets get real. Teachers say how they have to take work home etc.
First its part of the job, working indoors in airconditioning and etc.
and YES EVERYONE ELSE one way or another bring their work home.

So lets do the math. Out of 365 days a year. They probably work what?
maybe HALF??? @ less than 40 hours a week.

And education curriculum in community college and universities isn't
exactly rocket science. actually many use Education major as an
easy out.

just had to vent.. after looking at my property tax's, and seeing that
1/2 allegedly goes to the school system.

[DLtoker]

Sounds like you need to investigate this before making a claim like that man. If you have no idea what they get paid, how can you say it's too much or too little? Come on Puffster;).

IMO, for going to college for 5 years, their starting pay should increase by 10k a year.

[MrPuffAlot]

I dont know how much they make..

Lets say average they make 30K a year.

Now lets do the Math..

52 weeks a year x 40hours = 2080/hours ** from the schedule I see dont even work 40 hours a week***

Ill give them the benefit of the doubt.. give they 60% of that hours are worked.

2080 x 60% = 1248 hours per year of actual work time.

$30,000 Divided by 1248/hours = $24.04 per HOUR.

Now how many others do you know get paid this much??
For actual time worked????

Lets not forget all the paid vacation, holidays and optional days,
all weeekends and health benefits.

Now who in the private industry with "real" non goverment subsidized
get this much?? State and federal employees always tring to milk
the cash cow, which are the Tax payers..

[MrPuffAlot]

Mind you, im only catatorizing the entry level teachers.

Now include all the administrators and pencil pushers, Janitors
and with Teachers with Tenure making close to 6 figures..
its really mind boggling.

[MrPuffAlot]

TO put it into perspective

First year Police officers get about 30-35K a year starting salaries.
-- DOes not get a 3/4 month break for summer
-- Does not get all holidays off
-- Work weekends
-- Doesnt get automatic 1 week Turkey vacation, automatic 2 week winter
break
-- Puts their lives on the line..

just something to think about..

worse part of it all, due to teachers union, known sexual pedofiles
theives, ex cons, in the unions can't be fired. To be fired for being
an imcompetent teacher, the paper chase takes up to 3-4 years, to be fired.
Meanwhile.. they get sent to teacher day care where they sit and do nothing
while collecting a check..

[DLtoker]

There is more to it than just teaching an 8 hour class day. There are after school for student for 1 hour... that is mandatory. There are meeting ALL THE TIME. Even so, let's say they do make $24 an hour and have great benefits and retirement. They went to school for 5 years... Can't stress that enough. I am just getting done with my 4 year degree and I make darn good loot after tax, 6 months out of the year.... Except for when I get paid to keep my feet up on a counter and run a register for a friend.

These teachers are dedicated to not only their job, but their students. These teachers hold the future in their hands! These teachers are getting over worked because there is a shortage of them in many parts of the country... Just a few years ago, Las Vegas was paying a $10,000 sign on bonus to teachers because they were hurting so badly. There are plenty of other jobs out there that one can get with the same amount of schooling that can pay a heck of a lot more.

I'm done with my rant... :rolleyes:

[DLtoker]

Oh boy... Cops are a totally different story. I think they get paid way too much...some of which only need a high school diploma. They should get paid 20k a year with bonuses every time they do something... Like $1,000 for catching x numbers of speeders.

[SmokinMom]

I don't even know where to begin. I just wanna take you out back and let all the teachers at my kids school beat you over the head with their shoes!!!!

Teaches are underpaid for what they do. You gotta remember that there are 20+ kids per class, and those kids all have varying abilities. Ol Jonny may barely know his alphabet where as Sally is already reading on a 4th grade level. What about Colton over there, definately ADHD and not on any medication. He always disrupts class and takes time away from everyone. Oh and little Josephina just came here from another country and can barely speak english.

How much time do these teachers invest in our children? Lets think about this. My kids go to school M-F from 8am-3pm. Thats 7 hours. Of course things like lunch, art and PE are breaks for the teachers, but then they are usually holding parent confrences, making phone calls, grading papers, planning lessons, etc. But I can say with about 100% certainty that my kids spend more time during the school year with their class as apposed to home with me. In a small sense these teachers are raising and molding our children. I don't spend near as much time with my kiddos. And its lucky for them too- I don't have the patience!

So lets see...if there's 24 kids in that class, how much are they really getting paid?

I would love to see you go take that teacher's place for a week and then hear your opinions on teachers being overpaid. HAHAHAHA!

Edited to add: I have a good friend who is a 5th grade teacher at my kids' school. She gets there each morning at 7:30 and doesnt get home most days until 5:30. Last I checked that equals 10 hrs a day, 50 hours a week! Put that in your pipe and smoke it!!!

[choking_victim]

you also have to put in the time they spend at home prepping assignments, grading papers and tests, reading every essay/speech you write, along with 30 others. It's constant work, even when they're not getting paid for it. Kindergarten-3rd grade teachers get it easy. from that on up it's more trickier. It's like truckers; if you didn't have them, you wouldn't have anything. same with teachers, if you didn't have them, you would have a nation of illiterate, dumb asses... have you ever watched the movie 'idiocracy'? you should, then you might know what a nation without teachers would be like.

but you do stand a good point about vacations etc etc. some teachers do summer schooling in highschool for 3-8 weeks. and they have prep work months before the next school year.

I respect truckers and teachers, and growers.
...amen.

[choking_victim]

cops are underpaid to learn about how they can incriminate you, but they never teach a cop to learn your rights...well, maybe besides you miranda rights.

[SmokinMom]

Kindergarten-3rd grade teachers get it easy. from that on up it's more trickier.

You can't be serious!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

Let's see you teach a class of kindergarteners how to read. Then come back to me and lemme know what you think.

:hairpull:

[DLtoker]

cops are underpaid to learn about how they can incriminate you, but they never teach a cop to learn your rights...well, maybe besides you miranda rights.

Um... the first thing a cop must say to you when they take you in for questioning is your rights... And the Miranda Rights are your rights!!!

[BluntFullOfKush]

Schools are ruff these days, i live in the "hood" and my wife's mom is a teacher at the high school here she get paid very good cause she been with them for along time, on the other hand teachers thats just starting out have it bad they dont get enough with what they gotta put up with, these kids will fight back anything they need alot more respect and a better pay.We have the highest paid school distric in IL, with much much less people then chicago, and jus imagien what thoses teacher have to put up with at a school located among millions of people. COPS they need to be jus volunteers, they take what they want. at least here they do

[BluntFullOfKush]

this happen down here a few days ago at a school http://www.bnd.com/news/crime/story/126111.html

[Mutt]

Well, I do know one freaking thing. Schools are very wasteful. I had to fill out I am not lying 32 pages of repetative crap for enrollment.
I felt like I was at a house closing.

My school supplies topped 100 bucks not counting school uniform. Oh and they print the school supplies list.
10 bottles of glue per student, specific name brand items, tons of paper, dry erase markers, washable markers, crayons, I mean 20-30 items...then the teacher gives a "class specific" list that has another 15-20 items all specific name brands. even listed "bounty" paper towels....the most expensive. and "puffs" brand tissues. I figured it out they get coupons and crap or perks from the company if it is associated with the school.
Now mind you this IS public school. The teachers aid does everything. Teacher sits and does paper work. I AM not lying. This is kindergarten.

Now they are having what they call a "shortfall" this year for funds.
We have an "education lottery" all the money is supposed to be for education. Well it goes...but to minority college funds and stuff. I am not bashing college funds don't get me wrong....but the states #1 priority should be the public schools 1st...then college funds second. College is a choice IMHO public school is a necessity.


Ok on top of the lottery, They have car taxes AND property taxes...which a portion goes to education....

Schools need to STOP being wasteful to start. They could cut I am not lying 1/2 the overhead just in paper alone. I do not mind buying supplies...I do mind when it is wasteful for no reason whatsoever than to just print repetative information sheets (I had 14 sheets where I just put the same exact info over and over and over).

Where is all the tax money going? I mean I supplied dang near everything. Where is the money???

My last agreement with MrPuff. I truly think that public school teachers tenure is a crock. I think each teacher should be reviewed each year for there performance. There are some very very bad teachers out there. and some very very good ones that are short changed due to the bad ones having "senority"...it has nothing to do with performance....only time. It's a crock.

There nuff said.

[DLtoker]

Speaking of being wasteful.. Every class room of the public grade school I attended has a 37" plasma screen TVs in it now...:rolleyes:

[Mutt]

I know DL...seen that too. All we had was a chalk board when I was a kid. I went to college and make it ok in the world.
We had a couple of apple 2E's for comps...they upgraded after i left. lol
but I learned just fine without all that crap.

PC's are must nowadays....but powerpoint with projection systems to teach kids grammer and math...give me a break.

[mojosat]

I am married to a teacher. She is a second year teacher who has an MBA, a masters of ed, and is working on her doctorate. She currently makes 46k a year. Once she finishes her doctorate and hits the 5 year mark she will max out the pay scale at 56k. Your probably thinking, damn 56k that is a great salary for someone who gets 3-4 months off, well your wrong it does not work that way. First of all, the pay is spread out over 12 months not 7 or 8. Second, most people assume that teachers are done at 3:00 every day, nothing could be more wrong, while the school day may end then, a teachers job is far from over. My wife very rarely gets out of there before 6:00. Between meetings with parents, tutoring the dumbasses, being a club or activity leader, and staff meetings most teachers work 10 to 12 hour days. Then when she gets home, she has lesson plans to do that have to be submitted to her department head and the board of regents, papers and work that have to be graded, and more phone calls and e-mails to parents. This usually eats up at least one whole day of the weekend, and or 3 to 4 hours nightly afer she gets home.

Now as far as the pay scale, my wife was making around 135k a year before taxes with her education and expeirence before leaving the corporate world to be a teacher so it is really not an even scale with their non-teacher counterparts. Nobody ever went into teaching to get rich, they more often than not, especially when they do it as a mid-life career change want to make an impact and help further the young people in their community. I supported my wifes decision to change careers because we were lucky enough that things have gone very well for me financially in my career and we could **** up the pay cut with a fair amount of ease.

Not to even mention all the crap they have to eat from unruly parents, moronic and sometimes violent know it all kids, and stupid federal interference, like the NLCB act.
How many times at your job have you had someone spit on you, or tell you your a bitch, or had to help break up gang fights involving 30 kids all twice your size? All when your only there trying to help them become productive adults with bright futures.

It sounds to me like your childs kindergarten teacher told you something about your child that you did not like and it rubbed you the wrong way. Get over it. If you truly have a problem put your child in private school.

[caribbean_smoker_20]

Alot of mixed thoughts in here..i'd have to aggree with Mr.Puff on this one though, cuz locally, teachers really bite the dust, always aksing for this and that but our school system is still a TOTAL waste of time..im a business student, so when someone asks for a raise but that raise doesnt bring up the productivity, it's a cause for concern.Feel the way you do Puff..and I can't see how someone telling him something he didn't like coulda struck a chord like that..check his explanation again

[mojosat]

Lots of states do not even have teachers unions. Ours does not. In the absence of unions though, teachers are often required to to be members of at least two associations, to which they pay an absorbent amount of dues, for things like legal defense and congressional lobbying. In our state public school teachers do not get tenured only administrators do, and they have a very diffucult time retaining administrators, and being tenured does not mean that you can not be fired, it just means that you can not be fired without reason.

On another note teachers are reviewed constantly. By not only their local school system but by their state education boards and certification comittees.
Teachers are indeed very easily fired. It does not take 3 to 4 years and this was one of more uneducated statements that I have ever heard about teachers. If a teacher is suspected of any kind of moral wrong in this state they are immiedatly placed on suspension pending the outcome of a trial or investigation, often without pay.
I have had several of my wifes male teacher friends express concerns to me about fear of being fired because a female student did not like her grade or the assigned workload and took it upon themselves to falsley throw out the touchy feely flag.
A few things I left out about the pay and time.
8 weekends a year in our state the teachers, all teachers are required to attend mandadtory training and augmentation sessions.
When I did our taxes this year. My wife had come out of pocket over 3 grand to maintain her classroom and teaching methods.

If your state has an education lottery and their is a shortfall then your state is mishandling the funds plain and simple. Most states do a very poor job of doling out the lottery money or have corrupt diversions with it that funnel it to the wrong places. Is that the schools fault? The teachers? I think that would be your state goverenments fault. We are lucky here that our state is one of the few with a lottery that does an outstanding job of managing the funds and while our state is almost always in the bottom 10 for SAT scores, it is because almost every single student takes the SATs here for a shot at the Lotto funded scholarship.
All a high school student has to do in this state to attend a state school on a free ride (and I mean free tuiton, books, housing, and a living stipend) is graduate with a B average and make 980 combined on the SATs.

[Runbyhemp]

Teachers have one of the most important jobs on the planet, and that is in educating our children.

In my opinion teachers deserve every penny they get. Nowadays teachers are taking more and more abuse from kids. When I was in school you got a clatter on the back of the head for acting up. Try that now and you end up being sued.

I wouldn't like to teach them. Would drive me up the walls. Then there's all the after hours stuff, the setting of exams, marking of papers, retraining, meetings etc. and more importantly you have to act as a role model.

I like to be able to switch off when working and go into auto pilot mode. Can't do that with kids. No, not for me, good luck to them.

[Mutt]

Mojosat, I am happy that at least a few states have there heads on right. My close freinds wife is an elementary school teacher. I know for a fact that most of the schools and districts are just as guilty as the state for mishandling money in my state.
Each state is different. If they all worked the same...everyone would have the same exact issues with there schools. but everywhere you go its different. I just happen to know whats going on in my kids school. It's not heresay, I pay attention. I research, So my statements was not unfounded. It comes down to poor management on all fronts. Teachers can point fingers at the school, school points to district, district points to state, state points to federal. But did the teachers help by sending me a ton of redundant paperwork? All could do something...and probably make there own lives a little more simple. I do my part and what is required of me. I just expect the same in return.
I can see why more and more people are sending there kids to private schools instead of public in my state. Each year the number rises.
Now as far as the 3-4 yrs to fire, i do not know the "steps" to fire them, but tenure does apply to teachers in my state.

[allgrownup]

In MY opinion,

"some" teachers are grossly overpaid.

The current system rewards the best and worst teachers equally.

the US public education system is way over rated.

How can a teacher be proud of what they do when they can't even teach history accurately? These books are full of lies. They teach and endorse a world of deception.

Schools and i'm generalizing to include colleges as well, teach primarily how to satisfy what the teacher needs in order for you to pass there classes.

They teach you attributes to get a JOB (just over broke)

It is the responsability of the parents to educate there children. If you leave that up to someone else, prepare to be deeply disappointed in the future.

I pick my kids up frequently and my personal observation is that schools have become depressing institutions for children to reside during the day. There is no privacy for them anymore. Children now have to wear clear backpacks, just for precausions, they cant wear certain colors, etc. Security guards, police, are in plain site as if almost preparing them for the police state on the horizon. Recomendations for young boys to be prescribed prescription drugs to calm them is drastically rising. the lists go on.

My child came home yesterday and commented that her teacher openly told her 2nd grade class that she wasn't married cuz she "kicked her husband to the curb". Unacceptable in my book....true or not.

My children are top of the class, there teachers always love them, there classmates all get along with them very well, they are respectful, WELL BEHAVED, intelligent, rationalising, children.

I don't owe a lot of credit to the education system for that.....I owe it to my wife for diligently spending quality time with them each and every day. I owe it to wife and myself, for including them and explaining to them our daily activities. Whether its a business trip i frequently take my family with me on or simply going to the grocery store or bank. They are with us at all times interacting and PARTICIPATING in our decisions.

Spend time with your children, assume the role of teacher number one. Make sure your children are recieving an education up to your expectations.

[allgrownup]

oh by the way....i think the NATIONAL teacher pay is somewhere around 48k per year.

Now education is the most important gift you could ever provide to your child and i do believe this income to be justified to many teachers. But i think more often than not, and especially with elementary teachers, this is far more than they deserve.

[ktownlegend]

Um... the first thing a cop must say to you when they take you in for questioning is your rights... And the Miranda Rights are your rights!!!


not any more, look into it. im pretty sure they changed that quite recently and ur kinda expected to konw ur rights and if u do'nt then they tell u. and as for the rest of the bickering about teachers and cops for one teachers teach, and yes they get paid too much. but "u can't put a price on education" ha hahahaha yea right tell the average joe payin his own way to ur local college. theres a price. and as for cops, under paid in places, and over paid in others. and i won't get into the cops part of that. just becuz i dislike them very very much.

Fire it up

KT

[thedutchmaster3]

Actually they are required by law to inform you of your 5th Amendment rights, which include the right to remain silent, the right to not incriminate oneself, and the right to an attorney. However, they are only obligated to do this if they plan on interrogating you. You CAN be placed under arrest and not informed of your rights, but anything that you tell the cop during that time is not admissible in court.

[allgrownup]

hey dutchmaster, is that same 5th Amendment right to not "self incriminate" LOL going to apply to the 10-40 federal income tax form that each one of us VOLUNTARILY fill out and send in each year to the IRS??? LOL

like that kind of constitutional right to not "self-incriminate" :doh:

[MrPuffAlot]

Dont get me wrong.

im not implying teachers aren't important. actually they are very important,
to the fabric of society. I admire and appreciate all the ones, that do it
for the love of teaching to help and teach our children, which are the future
for all of us.

BUT:

I got a home and business within my county. With my home and business
my property tax's ALONE is over 12K.. NOW thats 12 THOUSAND DOLLARS,
in property alone, along with my income tax, matching social security,
accessment tax unemployment insurance and a host of other tax's upon tax's.

I sat there and read, half of real property tax's goes to public schools.

Then you hear about teachers asking for more more more more and more..

Also, about teachers getting fired? terminated? pink slip?? WELCOME
to the Paper chase.. read this.. This is just one example.
and believe me its alot worse. LITTERALLY: one case in NYC.
A teacher was caught with kiddy porn after accusations of child molestion.
He was tried and convicted. After all this, sitting in jail. He was still
a teacher and collecting a check. the School superintendent, pulled out
2 500 page books of guidlines of firing a teacher, due to the powerful
teachers union. and stated it would take at least 5 years, per teacher.
While bad teachers in the process of getting fired. LITTERALLY SIT in a
buildling which is a daycare for bad teachers. The sit, read books, sit on
computers while they get paid. A simple google search I found this:

http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=3755

Dig deeper, you can't phantom how ridiculous it is.

And give me a break, I feel like John stossel.

First of all, all teachers in public school system are given a curriculum,
and guildlines on what to teach and how to teach it.
Granted first year teacher developing their own technique, might be a little
challenging, but unless they change grades every year. Same principles
of their first are used, which are guided though the curriculum and guildlines.

Sorry, Ms Jane Doe teacher isn't at liberty to teach what ever when ever.

Cry me a river. Boohoohoo.. teacher conferences.. boohoo hooo.
Take home work to look at.. boohoohooo.. Grade simple math, english papers.
boohoo hooo. Thats some bull. These days, most test are multiple choice
with templates with right answers.

HELLO, WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD. they should be grateful for the
gravy train.. Give me a break. So they work 7 months a year, during the
7 month, they get all weekends, holidays, half days, snow days, vacation,
optional, sick days. and get PAID for 12 months of work.. BOOHOOHOOO

To the one that made a personal comment about my son. Implying
i made this thread because my teacher must of said something bad about
my son. Just FYI: my son is above the curve for a kindergardener,
and excells in peewee football, lacross, wrestling and baseball and very
loved and respected by all his teachers and coachs.

my wife and I still pay this ridiculous amount for daycare and now after care
so my son can attend the BEST school system in my state. Bar none.
The sacrifices we make as good parents..

BUT lets be real.. average income for teachers is 46K.. WOW
to work.. 6/7 months a year.

All this came to light, as I looked over the school calender.

NOT ONE FULL WEEK OF SCHOOL this month, nor last month.
I presume, school system employees will work less than 20 days
in OCTOBER, and for sure, less than 15 in NOV and DEC.
Seriously do the math. Add snow days, sick days, optional, and vacation.
how much work do they actually do??

Another food for thought.. If they really cared.. why dont they volunteer
and do it for free?? bottom line, its about the MONEY, and they want more
and work less..