Veg and Flower..?

[Sebstarr]

Erm, well i've been looking around for a while, and i was wondering, do you guys tend to have a separate room/ box etc for your flowering plants, or for those cramped for space, do you grow your plants, and just use the same system (maybe change the floros to HPS) and just change the lighting hours?

I was thinking of having a grow box, and when my 1 or 2 plants (max) is large enough, just slap up the HPS instead of floros, and lower the lighting hours, plus the other changes you usually make between stages.

What do you guys think?

Sorry if it's been asked before, i just couldnt for the life of me find a similar enough thread.
Cheers guys

[POTUS]

There are so many ways that pot is grown now. Some grows are as tiny as one lowryder under flos and others are hundreds of plants under halides and HPS.

Some like to grow from clones, some from seeds.

Some like to grow with 12/12 lighting from the start, others like to grow to a predestined height of 5 feet tall or more.

Some like organic, some like the non-organic route.

Some use one room, some don't.

Some.....

This could go on forever.

The fact is, there is no "common" methods used in growing. You have to study all the various methods and pick the ones that fit what you want to do.

There are a BUNCH of methods to choose from.

Good luck to you man!

[4u2sm0ke]

Yeah what HE ^^^ said...My setup is diffrent from Potus setup but with the same results..I think its more of the area in what one has to work with...Good luck..

[red_ss]

i think closets is great and they are also perfict comfoluge if you know what i mean..

[Thorn]

yea what potus said. also if vegging then flowering, the plants will have a growth spurt once sent into flowering so make sure you dont veg to your max height! :)

[Sebstarr]

Yehh cheers guys, am planning on using a small/medium sized closet in my garage. Reason im choosing my garage is because its not drafty, but theres a good flow of air. Also theres multiple heaters and a temp. guage, so i can control the heat easily. Also good water source nearby, (but will probs use distilled water), and is out of the way stealth-wise :D

Whadya think?

[Sebstarr]

Dimensions for the closet are:

31" high
29" wide
11.5" deep

[POTUS]

Dimensions for the closet are:

31" high
29" wide
11.5" deep

31 inches = 2.6 ft tall
29 inches = 2.4 ft wide
11.5 inches = 1 ft long

I rounded each of them to the nearest whole number.

So, 2.4 times 1 = 2.4 square feet of growing area.

One plant would fill it, two will be crowded.

31 inches of total height will be really crowding it.

Is your light going to be inside that 31 inches also?

If so, how much actual growing height are you going to have?

Keep in mind that you need room between the light and the top of the plant and the plant will be in a container that is 4 to 12 inches tall. That would only leave about a foot of plant height...

At a minimum of 3,000 lumens per/square foot of grow area, you'll need 7,200 lumens for a proper grow.

Again, I have to stress safety. Having electric lights and water and heat in a tiny area like that is inviting problems.

[Sebstarr]

Yeah i'll have to think about that.

I've heard of lowryder etc. , but are thier ways/ strains to make sure the plant doesnt reach a height, but more of a bushier plant?

And yeah, the 31 inches would also include the lighting.

[Thorn]

topping, supercropping and lst will prevent height growth as much, but you would have to make sure you have enough room for it to grow wide. Indica strains grow bushier and shorter :)

[Sebstarr]

I've almost got as much width as height, so it shouldnt be that much of a problem.

I've been checking out your and Ganja_Greg's journals, and his way of growing straight 12/12 from seedlings seemed to sufficiently stunt the growth of his plant, yet it still yeilds a lot of bud.

Ideas?

[mal_crane]

I've been using 12/12 for full grows on and off now for about 20 grows and its a great way to keep plants small. I usually top and lst my plants as well. With the dimensions you gave, you should be able to grow two decent sized plants to their full potential using 12/12 and topping/lst'ing depending on how much space your lighting setup takes.

[Thorn]

:yeahthat:

Mine is also 12/12 straight through and it is much better for keeping them small. but ya, go for indica dominate or autoflowering and lst and/or top and you should be great :D

Altho don't top a lowryder! :rolleyes:

[Sebstarr]

Oky Doky :)

Just asking though why dont you top a lowryder?

[4u2sm0ke]

Yehh cheers guys, am planning on using a small/medium sized closet in my garage. Reason im choosing my garage is because its not drafty, but theres a good flow of air. Also theres multiple heaters and a temp. guage, so i can control the heat easily. Also good water source nearby, (but will probs use distilled water), and is out of the way stealth-wise :D

Whadya think?

Hey star...My city water is a solid 7.0 and cant seem to get it to go down. so I use Disstiled and rain water..My rain water ph 6.8 but I only use it to water no nutes...mine seem to be liking it:hubba: ..everything else sounds in order..KeepN it GREEN:D

[Thorn]

Oky Doky :)

Just asking though why dont you top a lowryder?

From what i've read and seen of lowryder growers on this forum, if you top it it doesn't help the plant. not sure of the science, but their meant to just grow in 18/6 light schedule all the way through with no topping. sorry i can't be more helpful than that :)

[Sebstarr]

From what i've read and seen of lowryder growers on this forum, if you top it it doesn't help the plant. not sure of the science, but their meant to just grow in 18/6 light schedule all the way through with no topping. sorry i can't be more helpful than that :)

Ok cheers, by 18/6 all the way through, do you mean a solid 18/6 all the way to harvesting, or just for the veg. stage. If not, what should/would i change it to to start flowering stage?

[POTUS]

Ok cheers, by 18/6 all the way through, do you mean a solid 18/6 all the way to harvesting, or just for the veg. stage. If not, what should/would i change it to to start flowering stage?
Low Ryder is an auto-flowering strain. It makes no difference is you use light 24/7, the plant will still flower when it's ready.

No nutrient changes or light changes are necessary.

You plant it, it grows, it flowers, you harvest, dry and cure it.

Good luck man!

[The Hemp Goddess]

C99 and Apollo 11 are both low odor strains.

[Thorn]

18/6 is the recommended light schedule for lowryder. It does not need a veg period as it is autoflowering :)

[Sebstarr]

Ohhhhhh, cheers for clearing that up guys.

Live and learn! :)

[Sebstarr]

OK so i got a new question...

I already gathered that its a really small grow area im growing in, which is why i'll either grow 12/12 all the way from seeds for stunted growth, OR use autoflowering strains like lowryder because they are naturally small.

But what i was wondering was, i heard.. well i KNOW that HPS is a lot better than CFLs, but in my space, do you think it will be better to get a few CFL's, or an HPS. I dunno about overheating or anything like that, so im just asking your advice.

?

Cheers guys

[KingKahuuna]

I was just sorta wondering,
Why not build a closet out in your garage that would better fit what you wish to do ?

smoke in peace
KingKahuuna

[Sebstarr]

I would, but its just this one's already built up, and ready, but i see where your coming from. Idea never struck me, not sure why.

Might go to ikea and pick up a cheap diy one, theyr usually a hellova lot cheaper than the built ones.

Its just i want to draw as little attention to it as possible, so for me to start building up a cabinet in the garage will probs attract the family's attention.

[Thorn]

HPS is great for flowering but NOT for vegging. CFLs are much better for vegging. HPS will put out a LOT more heat and you must have good ventilation. I would advise you to have some sort of desk fan as well as vents as this will make your stems stronger.

[POTUS]

HPS is great for flowering but NOT for vegging. CFLs are much better for vegging. HPS will put out a LOT more heat and you must have good ventilation. I would advise you to have some sort of desk fan as well as vents as this will make your stems stronger.

Sorry Thorn, but after several hundred grows, I have to tell you that what you've said is not correct.

HPS are FAR better for growing MJ than CFLs in every way. They are more efficient, have a much better light spectrum and are less expensive per/lumen.

I'm not sure where you got that information, but it's just not true. Sorry.

Everything I've said is easily researched and proven. There is NO data that supports what you've said other than maybe some guy with two grows talking.

A HPS puts out less heat also, when considered on a watt for watt basis.

Please pass that along to the person who incorrectly told you what you said about the cfls. They also need to know.

Please keep in mind that I've grown weed for more than 40 years, both inside and out. I've done dirt, and every type of Hydroponics that are known. I don't mean to insult, but I can't let incorrect information be propagated into the minds of new growers.

Again, I don't mean to insult or anger. Just trying to put out accurate information.

The information proving what I've said is available here on this site. It's also easy to find with Google. Comparative studies involving cfls and HPS have been done many, many times.

If you get into the really large CFLs, the light can be better for vegging if the right bulbs are used, but the heat output of them still is more than that of an HPS at a watt by watt basis.

[Sebstarr]

Yeh, because i want my setup to be as minimalistic as possible, basically one plant at a time MAX, I'd rather not splash out on a whole HPS system solely for flowering, when im either going to use the 12/12 way, or im going to go autoflowering...

For fans, i was thinking either 1 or 2 of these...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160207189607&ssPageName=MERC_VIC_RCRX_Pr3_PcY_BIN_IT&refitem=160202288954&itemcount=3&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&usedrule1=CrossSell_LogicX&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget&_trksid=p284.m183&_trkparms=algo%3DCRX%26its%3DS%252BI%26itu%3DUCI%2 52BSI%26otn%3D3

and for lighting a couple of these

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HYDROPONICS-CUTTINGS-LUMENATOR-MICRO-CFL-110-W-RRP-70_W0QQitemZ230223453257QQihZ013QQcategoryZ43555QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosti ng

[Sebstarr]

Oh ok potu, cheers for that, what im asking is, for a SMALL set up, what's the best type of light to be used generally.

[POTUS]

Oh ok potu, cheers for that, what im asking is, for a SMALL set up, what's the best type of light to be used generally.

To save money, use a *small* HPS. It'll work great for your entire grow.

They make them really small. Please keep in mind that at least 3,000 lumens per/square foot of plant canopy is still needed to provide a cured crop that is worth the time and effort.

At any level of grow, HPS is more efficient per/watt and puts out less heat per/watt than cfls do. Using either, you'll still need proper venting.

Good luck!

[Sebstarr]

Ok cheers, ill wait a bit, then i'll draw up some plans and post em up :)

Will ebay be sufficient to have a peek for HPS lighting?

[POTUS]

Ok cheers, ill wait a bit, then i'll draw up some plans and post em up :)

Will ebay be sufficient to have a peek for HPS lighting?

Mutt is the best person I've ever seen for finding a deal. The guy is magic.

I would ask him for a reference to the best buy for the buck. He can find great deals!

[Thorn]

in my opinion using HPS for vegging is a huge waste of money and CFLS offer a better spectrum choice. Thats what i've learnt from most growers. There is NO point in wasting the HPS for veg when you can save it until flower. A lot of growers have said that vegged plants under hps were no where near as deeper green as plants vegging under MH or CFLs.

[Sebstarr]

Thorn for your set up, did you just use normal desk lamps with CFL's bulbs in them? I like the look of ur grow box, clean and simple. And most probably cheap lol :D

[Thorn]

Hey man, yea I used white E27 fitting desk lamps that i bought for £4.99 each at a market shop. They are great as they reflect really well, although do take up some of the room in my space. thanks for the pm :)

[Sebstarr]

Will the CFL bulbs fit straight into the E27 fitting? I think i may have a couple of those desk lamps lying around.

Also if i could screw them into the ceiling of my cabinet, i could alter the distance between the lights and plants more compared to if they were just lying flat on the ground. If u get what im saying?

[Thorn]

yea man. i change the height of my lights my putting a book or some videos underneath them but its probably better to get actual fittings. CFLs come in E27 and Bayonet Cap fittings so it doesn't really matter, just as long as they match.

It really depends what your after. if u want to just experiment and do a cheap grow your best off with CFLs and a small HPS for flower. then again if your going 12/12 all the way through it may be better to start them as seedlings for 2-4 weeks with the CFL and then just use HPS.

Also a good argument for low watt CFLs compared to HPS is that if the bulbs get found by an anyone who's not meant to see them then you can say they're just energy saving bulbs to replace your incandescents. Cant see you getting away with that with HPS lol!

[Sebstarr]

lol, my Family is so gullible, i'll tell them its some kind of flowering bamboo from the west-indies, my mum will probably help me cultivate it lol!

Thanks for the help dude, its muchoos appreciated.

[Thorn]

no worries, but be very careful when growing as parents know a lot more than what we think! Anyways keep it green, experiment and find out whats best for you. Good luck! :D

[POTUS]

in my opinion using HPS for vegging is a huge waste of money and CFLS offer a better spectrum choice. Thats what i've learnt from most growers. There is NO point in wasting the HPS for veg when you can save it until flower. A lot of growers have said that vegged plants under hps were no where near as deeper green as plants vegging under MH or CFLs.

MH is the absolute best lighting made for vegging. It's been proven so many times that it just isn't worth arguing over.

The light spectrum of CFLs is better for flowering, but the lumen output/per watt isn't nearly as efficient as MH or HPS. The overall costs of bulbs, electricity and life span for CFLs also isn't as good when used in a grow room environment.

Basically, CFLs are good for those tiny grows in tiny spaces.

[POTUS]

lol, my Family is so gullible, i'll tell them its some kind of flowering bamboo from the west-indies, my mum will probably help me cultivate it lol!

Thanks for the help dude, its muchoos appreciated.

Does that mean that you're growing marijuana in your parents home without their knowledge or permission?

That is definitely NOT cool. You're placing them in the position of being responsible for a felony in their house without even knowing it's happening. If discovered by anyone who cares, they could be brought up on charges of all kinds by the police and possibly lose their house. They would for sure lose their insurance and no insurance company would ever touch them again. This means that they would never be able to finance a house again for the rest of their lives.

Man, either tell them what you're doing, move out and do it in your own place or quit doing it.

It's not fair to them.

Anyone who grows weed in someones house that isn't aware of it isn't being a very good person. It's simply not fair to the people who have the most to lose.

Plus, if they find it, they could easily put you into a juvenile detention jail until you're 18 if you're not, and if you are, they could put you in a real adult jail just for pissing them off.

[POTUS]

no worries, but be very careful when growing as parents know a lot more than what we think! Anyways keep it green, experiment and find out whats best for you. Good luck! :D

No one should be growing weed in anyone's house without their knowledge and permission.

The risk is to their house among many other things. If you're growing weed in someone else's house without their knowledge, you're doing just the thing that makes all people who grow their own weed look bad.

Jail, loss of the house, possible loss of life, denial of insurance, denial of house loans, it all is possible. If they know it and agree to it, fine. If they don't know and you're putting them in the position of all that without even giving them the courtesy of letting them know what's going on under their own roof, then that's seriously NOT cool.

[Sebstarr]

Does that mean that you're growing marijuana in your parents home without their knowledge or permission?

That is definitely NOT cool. You're placing them in the position of being responsible for a felony in their house without even knowing it's happening. If discovered by anyone who cares, they could be brought up on charges of all kinds by the police and possibly lose their house. They would for sure lose their insurance and no insurance company would ever touch them again. This means that they would never be able to finance a house again for the rest of their lives.

Man, either tell them what you're doing, move out and do it in your own place or quit doing it.

It's not fair to them.

Anyone who grows weed in someones house that isn't aware of it isn't being a very good person. It's simply not fair to the people who have the most to lose.

Plus, if they find it, they could easily put you into a juvenile detention jail until you're 18 if you're not, and if you are, they could put you in a real adult jail just for pissing them off.

Nooooooo I wouldnt do it in thier own home, im really not that disrespectful to them. My family visits a lot to my place, thats what i was talking about. If i get caught, its my place, so thiere not tied to it at all.

[Hick]

in my opinion using HPS for vegging is a huge waste of money and CFLS offer a better spectrum choice. Thats what i've learnt from most growers. There is NO point in wasting the HPS for veg when you can save it until flower. A lot of growers have said that vegged plants under hps were no where near as deeper green as plants vegging under MH or CFLs. just to put things into "perspective"..
..Isn't this your very first grow?.. what "qualifies" you to have the experience to "form" an opinion? How many cfl/hid grows have you compared?..cfls do NOT offer nearlly the wide spectrum that hps/hid does.
I have a switchable ballast that will accept MH or HPs. I haven't screwed the MH in in years. I produce excellent growth, internodal spacing, and plenty of "green" under the hps. In fact, Ed Rosenthal implies/infers that hps is "more" suitable for vegetative growth than the MH. He explains it in detail, if you'd like to google it.
compare 10, 40 watt cfls to one 400 watt hid. the cfls emit far less light/lumens, but consume the same wattage, therefore, that energy "must" be being released in heat energy. Contrary to popular beliefe,flourescents actually run hotter per power/watts consumed than hid. They simply disperse it over a larger area.
.

[Sebstarr]

But, as i was asking, in the small space that i have, which would be better? CFL or HPS?

[Hick]

..18/6 "IS" a vegging schedule.
because it is "auto" flowering, it does not need a "flowering" schedule of 12/12.. ;)
18/6 is the recommended light schedule for lowryder. It does not need a veg period as it is autoflowering :)

[mal_crane]

I already said that I would use cfl's in your small space, but I'm sure half the people will come back onto this post and say go Hps. Just don't burn your house down using HPS in too small of a space. I've never had a single heat problem with my cfl's and I've used 400w's of cfl bulbs in full sized closets and 6 42w cfl's in areas as small as 2'x2'x2' space. I used my HPS in a small room and couldn't keep the temp below 80-85.

[POTUS]

Nooooooo I wouldnt do it in thier own home, im really not that disrespectful to them. My family visits a lot to my place, thats what i was talking about. If i get caught, its my place, so thiere not tied to it at all.

That's a really good thing. Respect for the owner of a house is a major issue that has been discussed here at length. I'm glad to hear that I misunderstood.

Thanks for clearing that up!

[Thorn]

Basically, CFLs are good for those tiny grows in tiny spaces.

Or people who can't afford HPS or MH and are just starting out. Know what you mean about the rest though. But you gotta try everything at some point etc etc.

[trillions of atoms]

unlike popular belief, when supercropping the growth, leaf structure and internodal spacing is matched with an hps in comparison to an MH. to need an MH is to need a light mover. you dont have to have one. ive grown many many cycles with an hps and i have yet to see shorter plants with more nugg structure of any grow with a matching watt MH in the few weeks of veg compared to SC with an hps the entire cycle.

but as you said for you its not worth arguing. i use an hps the entire cycle, plants are hardened quicker to an hid like an hps compared to flos. the node spacing is less, less strech when using an hps, more lumens too. this means faster growth and more yeild.

when comparing flos to an hid, hid is where is at hands down. as potus said flos are for micro grows where space and heat is a concern.

[Thorn]

..18/6 "IS" a vegging schedule.
because it is "auto" flowering, it does not need a "flowering" schedule of 12/12.. ;)

Ya thats what i said!