Yellow edges and curling under at the ends please help my little babies

[Swordfreak]

Please some one help, i am growing 6 Oasis seedlings under a 600w HPS, in a hydropod ebb and flow system, the temp is staying between 65 and 80 at all times, running the light 24 hours a day (cus me timer broke), using formulex to a cf rating of 12 and ph at 5.5, growing in rockwool cubes 11 days old now, 5 have 3 good leaves and starting 4th and one is only just starting its third and is 2 inches smaller, the leaves on the smaller ones are yellow, and three of the other plants have yellow edges and the leaves are curling under at the ends, humidity is staying in the region of 85-90 inside the propagator, had a disaster after 2 days of germinating cus esoteric hydro told me to put the fan on the propagator to keep it cool, the light is a good 3-4 feet away from the plants canope, but it was getting hot, so i did that and overnight the Relative Humidity fell from 90 to 30, 3 of my babies died becaue of that and the rest recover quite well but were ovbiously slowed down due to it, i got a feeling i might be subconsiously overwatering them so i started leaving them 3 days inbetween before watering them, checking the rockwool everyday though, oh ye and when should i open the vents in the propagator to get some fresh air in there? Cheers

[Swordfreak]

I started my plants about 10 days ago, under a 600w HPS, in a propagator with a fan keeping the environment around the propagator cool as the temp was getting too high at first, after getting advise from esoteric hydroponics they first told me to have the fan blowing directly onto the propagator but that caused the humidity to drop from 90 to 30 RH overnight and this stressed out the plants big time, out of the nine that germinated 6 have survived that terrible mistake but are starting to get better, the seeds are oasis from dutch passion by the way, the seedlings have 3 sets of leaves and starting there fourth (good leaves that is) all except for one seedling which is only 2 inches compared to the rest that are 4 inches, the edge of the leaves have turned yellow and are starting to curl under, on a few of the healthier plants they are showing signs of this too, can anyone help it will be much appreciated. I got ph and cf meters too, and a min max hygrometer and thermometer. Ph at 5.5 and cf at 12.
Cheers

[Mutt]

Your PH is too low. In my link is a PH chart link. Here is some other questions that may help.

If hydro what type bubble, ebb and flo, etc.?
ferts/nutes used?
What stage of growth?
Grow area size and ventilation?
Any other measurements that may be useful like PPm, EC, CF, etc.?
lighting schedule?

I'm also gonna move this over to the nursery section for you.
I'll let the hydro guys take it from here.
Good luck. :)

[Swordfreak]

Hey mutt im using the hydropod ebb and flow, the manufacturer recommended that level could it be too high because they are only in rockwool at the moment.
Thanks

[Stoney Bud]

Hey mutt im using the hydropod ebb and flow, the manufacturer recommended that level could it be too high because they are only in rockwool at the moment.
ThanksHey SF, what type of nutes are you using? Have you mixed them correctly? Lot's of time folks like to add some extra. That can be deadly in Hydro.

Also, your pH needs to be between 6.2 and 6.8

That is probably most of your problem.

[Swordfreak]

Hey stoney bud, thanks for helping us out, you guys are great so the oh should be 6.2 even in rockwool? Im using formulex, and keeping it at cf of 12.
Thanks

[Swordfreak]

Also there is one thing i am getting confuzzled about, i watched a video tutorial about germination, the guy said test the water before nutrients to show dead salts and then take that reading half it and add 12 and that is what you want to be aiming for with my cf meter, the background salts are 7 in my plain cold tap water so i said 3 + 12 = 15 and set it to that does that sound right?
Cheers

[Stoney Bud]

Also there is one thing i am getting confuzzled about, i watched a video tutorial about germination, the guy said test the water before nutrients to show dead salts and then take that reading half it and add 12 and that is what you want to be aiming for with my cf meter, the background salts are 7 in my plain cold tap water so i said 3 + 12 = 15 and set it to that does that sound right?
CheersAll of that sounds way too complicated man. The pH needs to be between 6.2 and 6.8 no matter what you're growing in.

In hydro, there are no built up salts to worry about if you mix your nutes correctly. I germinate my seeds between ten layers of paper towels in a dark cupboard with plain tap water. All that math isn't necessary man. A simple pH and proper nutes is all you need. Use the KIS method. KEEP IT SIMPLE.

I use the General Hydroponics "Flora" three part nutes in my Ebb and Flow and have never had a single problem. I don't even bother with pH tests any more. I've never had to adjust. I use the "Hard Water" Micro nutes they have.

Good luck to you man. Get that pH up to where it needs to be and your plants will be just fine.

[Swordfreak]

Thanks mate really appreciate the advice will be changing the water next time i water the little guys, hopefully get some picks to show you guys too, sept me step mom nicked me camera so, gona have to get a new one, i will keep you posted with how they develop after changing the ph.

[Swordfreak]

http://members.aol.com/dynastybros1/Pic1http://members.aol.com/dynastybros1/pic2
http://members.aol.com/dynastybros1/pic3
http://members.aol.com/dynastybros1/pic4
http://members.aol.com/dynastybros1/pic5

[Stoney Bud]

will be changing the water next time i water the little guys....GUYS????? :eek: Holy Crap! Tell me it's just an expression!!!!!!

[Swordfreak]

LMAO!!!, ok then lil gals then, they feminized so hopefully they all ladies, what you think wrong with em from the pics then.

[Stoney Bud]

LMAO!!!, ok then lil gals then, they feminized so hopefully they all ladies, what you think wrong with em from the pics then.Whewwwwwwww! You had me thinkin you were some kind of pot pervert! Raisin guys! The very thought of it!!!!!!!:D

It looks to me like you've over fertilized them. The low pH may be the actual culprit however. The plant can't properly take up nutes when the pH is outside the window as yours has been. Get that pH adjusted and make sure you mix your nutes EXACTLY by measure as described by the manufacturer for an Ebb and Flow grow. Contact them if you have any doubt and make sure you tell them you're using a Hydro Ebb and Flow. It makes a HUGE difference than with other forms of Hydro and a total difference from dirt.

If that is what your problem is, it should resolve itself in a couple of days. You may want to manualy flush the cubes with fresh water. That will hurry the healing up.

Good luck man.

[Swordfreak]

The PH in the cubes is 7.2 is that too high, cus the lime in the rockwool raises the ph, i will lower the cf solution i use to 12 even with the background salts, so it is ok to flush the rockwool even with the plants in?, sorry if i sound daft a bit of a noob to this, thanks for the help.

[Swordfreak]

Heres some more pics, flushed them 10 mins before takin em, aint added no nutrients just hard water, think they will get better?
http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/users/441e90baze411a5d7/880f/__sr_/e9fere2.jpg?phAlpHEBQ8BdGldl
Dont Know if you can see but the end of the leaf looks burnt. /\
http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/users/441e90baze411a5d7/880f/__sr_/b269re2.jpg?phAlpHEBgvdK.NPB
http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/users/441e90baze411a5d7/880f/__sr_/2ba9re2.jpg?phAlpHEB0f2BiT.O
http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/users/441e90baze411a5d7/880f/__sr_/c3e4re2.jpg?phAlpHEBljeDjG4q
http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/users/441e90baze411a5d7/880f/__sr_/7d93re2.jpg?phAlpHEBGLQny9h2
I HAVE OPENED THE VENTS ON THE PROPAGATOR, THINK THEY MIGHT NEED AIR IS THAT OK TO DO AT THIS STAGE?
http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/users/441e90baze411a5d7/880f/__sr_/c5f7re2.jpg?phAlpHEB4lA5Y33U
Thanks for all your help any reply would be great.

[Swordfreak]

How come my pics didnt show up there, just links?

[Mutt]

Did yo use the insert image button on your post editor?

[Stoney Bud]

How come my pics didnt show up there, just links?When you type a post, scoll down and you'll see "Manage Attachments" That is where you add them to your post. After identifying each of the pics, make sure you click "Upload".

Try again man. You'll get it.

[Swordfreak]

Hers those pcs again and to think i went through all the trouble of uploading em onto yahoo and typing the web address for em. Please take a look and tell me what you think

[Stoney Bud]

Hers those pcs again and to think i went through all the trouble of uploading em onto yahoo and typing the web address for em. Please take a look and tell me what you thinkSure looks like nute burn to me. What's the highest temperature they've been in? Even for a short time?

[Swordfreak]

Max 87F opened the vents up today too, humidity is staying around 90rh is that ok aswell.
Cheers

[Mutt]

:eek: wow dude, thats hot and WAY too much humidity. I don't know if the humidity meters are different over there, but 90% your lookin at drywall damage and stuff. you get to get some air running through there. How did you get it that high to begin with :confused: . you want during veg. 40% to maybe 60% tops. I keep mine around 48%. R/H My temp around 75F I would rather 72 or 73

Weed likes low to mid 70F.

Yes Stoney Bud is right, your fryin em. Please tell me your not using Mircale grow still.

P.S. I know it sucks trying to convert all those numbers to our bassackwards way of the standard system. I will convert it. I got a convertor handy. We would rather have what you measure by.

[Swordfreak]

Nah i am using the hydro ebb and flow, and the humidity gets high cus they in a propagator, think they ready to come out, or think i should take the top off.
Thanks dude, no miracle grow using formulex.

[Mutt]

It looks like its ready for the top to come off. They are rooted, no need for the excessive humidity now. Actually may hurt things.

[Swordfreak]

Thanks dude, opened the vents and the humidity dropped to around 75 got the fan on aswell so that should lower it further, gona have the experiment asn try and keep the humity down the room stays at 65 standard without being inside the propagator, is that ok or think i should start using my de-humidifier a couple of hours a day?

[Swordfreak]

Hey dudes, heres a few more pics, after checking em this morning the leaves had wilted real bad over night take a look, could that be from not given em enough water?
Cheers

[Stoney Bud]

Hey dudes, heres a few more pics, after checking em this morning the leaves had wilted real bad over night take a look, could that be from not given em enough water?
CheersOk, you say you're using "Ebb and Flow" and I see what could be an Ebb and Flow system under the green tray, but it looks like you just have the rockwool cubes sitting in a green tray, not in the Ebb and Flow system.

How are you watering the plants? Are you just pouring some water into the tray or what?

I'm glad you posted those pics. I was under the impression that the plants were already in the Ebb and Flow system.

If you're hand watering the cubes, then just keep them moist until they are rooted and can be put into the Ebb and Flow system. You'll know they are rooted well enough when you see roots coming out of the rockwool.

Edit: Ok, after looking at the pics again, I see that the plants HAVE roots showing under the cubes. The plants are ready to put into the Ebb and Flow units. Gently take each cube and put it into the grow buckets that have the clay pellets in them. Those buckets are the ebb and flow units.

Do you have the units hooked up with a water supply from a reservoir so that the plants will get fed automatically? If so, then put the plants into the units and turn it on. No, DO NOT PRUNE THE PLANTS YET. They are just little seedlings and are not ready to "Top" until they are IN the grow chambers and growing on their own.

[Stoney Bud]

Please some one help, i am growing 6 Oasis seedlings under a 600w HPS, in a hydropod ebb and flow system, the temp is staying between 65 and 80 at all times, running the light 24 hours a day (cus me timer broke), using formulex to a cf rating of 12 and ph at 5.5, growing in rockwool cubes 11 days old now, 5 have 3 good leaves and starting 4th and one is only just starting its third and is 2 inches smaller, the leaves on the smaller ones are yellow, and three of the other plants have yellow edges and the leaves are curling under at the ends, humidity is staying in the region of 85-90 inside the propagator, had a disaster after 2 days of germinating cus esoteric hydro told me to put the fan on the propagator to keep it cool, the light is a good 3-4 feet away from the plants canope, but it was getting hot, so i did that and overnight the Relative Humidity fell from 90 to 30, 3 of my babies died becaue of that and the rest recover quite well but were ovbiously slowed down due to it, i got a feeling i might be subconsiously overwatering them so i started leaving them 3 days inbetween before watering them, checking the rockwool everyday though, oh ye and when should i open the vents in the propagator to get some fresh air in there? CheersOk, here is your third post in the series. This is where we all got lost. In this post, you've said you're using an ebb and flow system. That's what got everyone going in the wrong direction. You're not using the ebb and flow system yet. The plants aren't in it. You still have the plants sitting in a "propagation tray".

Let's all back up and start over with the advice.

If the plants ARE rooted good, then get them into the ebb and flow system. If you've set it up correctly, then it should have a pump on a timer that will feed the plants. I would set it to run 1 hour on, two hours off. Keep your light at 24 inches from the tops of the plants. Use a half strength nutrient solution until the plants show new growth in the hydroponic units.

I think we can still get those plants growing good again. We were just all on the wrong page.

[Swordfreak]

Lol, thanks dude, yes i got the system ready to recieve i was just waiting for the roots to grow through the sides, i just gota get a electronic timer i got one but it is faulty, have to get one tomorrow, just using a little watering can to water the plants, i see where i confused you all, MUTT said above how he didnt realize i was in a propagator still, they seem to be growing OK at the moment but definateley slowed a bit, thanks for the help gona go check on em now.

[Swordfreak]

Hy they are now in the system, the main one, got some pics below, take a look, 6 individual pics of each one, Cheers

[Stoney Bud]

Hy they are now in the system, the main one, got some pics below, take a look, 6 individual pics of each one, CheersThat's much better looking man.

You need to really water them good 4 times a day until you get your pump.

[Swordfreak]

Got my timer working now, all seems well seen the brown patches on the leaves what could that be?, thanks dude, think i could get a pound in that space then?
Cheers

[Mutt]

Brown patches could have been caused by a lot of things at this point. just keep an eye on your PH. There are some charts in general indoor growing. Just follow those. PH is the first thing I check when there is a prblem. ;)

Glad to see em surviving. I don't know about a pound being a first grow. I ussually tell people an ounce per plant so you don't get your hopes up too high.

[Swordfreak]

Cheers mutt, think i could get that much or more when i get a bit more experience, what do you average a plant in soil? Cheers

[Mutt]

Thats a low end call. Just never get your hopes up really high. My first indoor was a little over an oz. I can't give you a solid answer on my yeilds depends on the strain. Outdoors had one 3/4 pound. Indoors. I think it was around 5 or 6. I quit wieghing. I just grow for myself and don't really pay attention anymore. Got rid of my scales. (I get nervous with anything that shows a sign of intent to distribute) I keep my grow always under 5 including my clones. My neck of the woods anything over 5 plants and my *** is grass and the judge is a tractor with a bushhawg. Scales won't help my "personal grow" defense IMHO.

[Swordfreak]

Very true, lol, i think the laws over here are a bit looser, What class is weed in america, its a class C over here, you can smoke weed in your house and a cop wouldn't do a thing, can be caught with a Q (8g) and they just confiscate it, and loads of peeps i have spoken to about it, one dude who is still growing now apparently has been caught a fair few times and the max sentence he got for 36 plants was 3 months and was out after 6 weeks, first two times he got caught recieved a small fine, wish i could get 5 or 6 ounces a plant, =).

[Mutt]

My neck of the woods. If you caught with under an ounce they take your liscence for a year and $1000 fine. Over an ounce is felony intent to distribute. 1st offense not too bad. but hell of a fine.

1-5 plants is a felony. 1st offense probation and I think about 5 thousand for a fine, plus attorney fees.
5+ plants=jail time. they may seize the house and all sorts of bullshit.
I'll have to look it up again. but thats an idea. :(

[Swordfreak]

Heres some more pics they are growing well but the bottom leaves are all shrivelled, i followed the nutrient instructions to the tea, (1/2 strengh), i have soughted the ph too, the bottom leaves are still like that, take a look see.

[Stoney Bud]

Heres some more pics they are growing well but the bottom leaves are all shrivelled, i followed the nutrient instructions to the tea, (1/2 strengh), i have soughted the ph too, the bottom leaves are still like that, take a look see.If your pump is what is filling your buckets now, then the media level is too low. I can see water through the media. That will cause algae growth at a tremendous rate. Very gently without even touching the plant, put more media in until you can no longer see water when the bucket fills. How often are you running the pump each day?

I can't really tell in your pics, but is there new growth that is coming out nice and healthy looking? If so, then just wait until the new growth increases and lets see what it does. You may be out of the woods now.

If there isn't any new growth, post a pic every day just as the lights come on. We'll have to see what happens man.

You've said your pH is correct at 6.2 to 6.8.
You've said your light is at the correct distance.
You've said your plants are getting proper air circulation.
You've said your nutrients are properly measured and applied.

On the subject of nutes. Are your micro nutes a separate package? If so, you have to mix them into plain water first. I use a two gallon container. Then, add the rest of the nutes for that amount of water.

If you add the micro nutes after the other nutes, it's possible to cause a nute lockout that would cause what you're seeing.

How exactly do you mix your nutes? Tell me the method you use.

[Swordfreak]

The Nutes come in a vega A and Vega B, i put ecxactly the same of A and B into the tank, i fed at half the dilution ration (actually a little under to avoid over feeding em), these contain all the micronutes needed, there does seem to be new growth appearing each day now, and there a nice healthy dark green colour, just the bottom leaves that are affected, a couple of patches on the second set of leaves, but they were there from before i transplanted to the new kit, the spread of the brown patches seems to have slowed a lot since i transplanted em, and they are smelling loveley =).

I am going away tomoz for a wekk, dont worry got a babysitter, trusted friend of mine, but when i get bk i will add some more pics to show you how they are doing, the nutes i am using are advising a ph of 5.2 - 6.2, i am using 6.2 but are they wrong in giving these numbers, 5.2 is extremeley low, they are on there 6th set of leaves at the moment and starting a new set every few days, just worried about these patches.

Thanks for the help, will sought out the flood and drain cycle, they fully flood and then instantly drain every 3 hours of the day, the media, clay pebbles dry out quite quick and this routine was advised by the supplier. Just got to adjust the timer so that the water does not fully cover the pebbles.

[Stoney Bud]

there does seem to be new growth appearing each day now, and there a nice healthy dark green colour, just the bottom leaves that are affected, a couple of patches on the second set of leaves, but they were there from before i transplanted to the new kit, the spread of the brown patches seems to have slowed a lot since i transplanted em, and they are smelling lovely =).Good, you have new growth happening. It sounds as if the problem has been resolved.

the nutes i am using are advising a pH of 5.2 - 6.2, i am using 6.2 but are they wrong in giving these numbers, 5.2 is extremely low, they are on there 6th set of leaves at the moment and starting a new set every few days, just worried about these patches.Perhaps they meant the pH needed to be that BEFORE you add the nutes. You should always mix your nutrients in a separate container prior to adding them to your reservoir. The plain water in your container may need to have the lower pH. Their nutes may bring the pH up from there to the correct 6.2 to 6.8 level. Before adding the nutrients you've mixed, check and adjust the pH. Then check and adjust the pH in the reservoir. After both the reservoir and the new mix has been properly adjusted, THEN add the new mix to the reservoir. This method with save you a lot of problems. After the solution is pumping to the plants, no way is anything less than 6.2 going to work right. I would try to get as close to 6.5 as you can.

Thanks for the help, will sought out the flood and drain cycle, they fully flood and then instantly drain every 3 hours of the day, the media, clay pebbles dry out quite quick and this routine was advised by the supplier. Just got to adjust the timer so that the water does not fully cover the pebbles.You're very welcome for any help I've given. That's what this entire group is all about.

About your unit. Doesn't it have an overflow level where the solution flows back into the reservoir while the pump is on? If so, the positioning of that return line is how you judge how much media to use. The media should be two inches above the high water level.

I've never seen an ebb and flow unit that didn't use a return line. If you've got one, please direct me to the site that sells it. I'd like to see what they've done.

[Swordfreak]

Much appreciated, sorry for the long no reply just got back from tenerife in the canary islands, i would love to grow a filed of weed there, so much son =). The website is www.1-hydropics.co.uk, yes there is an overflow tube, but water seems to flood about an inch abive the overflow and then stop there, i guess i could add a few more pebbles to higher the level, just got back from hols and gone 8 days without seeing them, god they have shot up, still got the patches, but damn they looking good, and the smell when i open the door, yum yum, i will get you some pics tomoz, they have grown probabley 2 or 3 more fan leaves over the week, and have grew probabley 4 inches, there are branches growing out from the nodes, only bad thing is the healthiest one when i went away is now the weakest, not as bushy, thanks for everything dude, nice being back in civilization, i got bit twice by two sea turtles, one took a chunk of hair and the other a chunk of wet suit, and i nearly sat on a butterfly sting ray, i was diving aswell i ent stoned before you say anything, well maybe a little.

[Swordfreak]

Its www.1-hydroponics.co.uk sorry