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thc is good for me
03-13-2008, 08:56 PM
Urine plus water plus sugar = co2 is this true i read in one of the growing articals on this site that you can make co2 by mixing water sugar and a few CCs of urine

IS THIS TRUE

Thorn
03-13-2008, 09:16 PM
not sure bro, any experts about??

lowtoker
03-13-2008, 09:46 PM
i have read that if you mix 8 ounces of urine to 1 gallon of water it is good for veg.

Canna Man
03-13-2008, 09:49 PM
why sugar???

godtea
03-13-2008, 09:52 PM
This might work if you have a yeast infection (the sugar ferments)
But why would you want that urine stench in your grow room.
The amount of gas produced would be nominal IMO

thc is good for me
03-13-2008, 09:57 PM
The article in the marijuana passion grow guide says to add a few CCs of urine not alot and i tried it with one 2 liter you cant smell urine at all.

siegalsmoker
03-13-2008, 09:59 PM
Yeah I read that before too...Don't know how true it is though....

Mr. Bubbles
03-13-2008, 10:07 PM
CO2 is a waste unless you know what your doing. Is there a blanket response to these CO2 threads somewhere. Everything I have read tells me the odds of you doing anything to benefit your plants are little to none. The mix it yourself is worthless but if it makes you feel good, go for it.

I am considering CO2 but my space is small and air tight. The reflector is enclosed so I can move air without moving CO2. I am also confident I can steadily maintain the higher temps during the light on cycle. I also know enough to use the search button to learn how to calculate the proper rate of CO2 release for my square footage. Finally I dont do anything half *** so a regulator and tank are bare necessities

Piss in a bottle plus yeast for CO2? Sure it produces CO2 but so does breathing. Sounds to me like you are bored staring at your plants so you now you want to **** with them. This is usually path that will lead to disaster.

Canna Man
03-13-2008, 10:17 PM
CO2 is a waste unless you know what your doing. Is there a blanket response to these CO2 threads somewhere. Everything I have read tells me the odds of you doing anything to benefit your plants are little to none. The mix it yourself is worthless but if it makes you feel good, go for it.

I am considering CO2 but my space is small and air tight. The reflector is enclosed so I can move air without moving CO2. I am also confident I can steadily maintain the higher temps during the light on cycle. I also know enough to use the search button to learn how to calculate the proper rate of CO2 release for my square footage. Finally I dont do anything half *** so a regulator and tank are bare necessities

Piss in a bottle plus yeast for CO2? Sure it produces CO2 but so does breathing. Sounds to me like you are bored staring at your plants so you now you want to **** with them. This is usually path that will lead to disaster.


lol,ya the more attention you give your plants the slower they will grow.:hitchair:

sweetnug
03-13-2008, 10:18 PM
Regulator+tank= best co2

thc is good for me
03-13-2008, 10:47 PM
''A MUCH cheaper way to provide CO2 is 2 Oz sugar in 2 liters of water in a bottle [sterilized 1st with bleach and water, then rinsed], plus a few cc urine[!] or if you insist, yeast nutrient from a home brewing supplier. Add a brewing yeast, shake up and keep at 25 deg celsius[~70 F] . Over next 2 weeks or so it will brew up about ? Oz CO2 for every Oz sugar used. Keep a few going at once, starting a new one every 3 days or so. With added CO2 growth is phenomenal!!! I personally measured 38cm growth in 8 days under a 250watt HPS bulb[tubular clear, Horizontal mount]''

This was taken from the marijuana passion grow guide.

thc is good for me
03-13-2008, 10:54 PM
Mr.bubbles you are a Negative Nancy. I read this in the Marijuana passion grow guide i was just curious.

Mr. Bubbles
03-13-2008, 10:57 PM
I am not buying it, there has to be blanket thread to shoot these theories down. Surely someone has followed a DIY CO2 guide and measured the amount of CO2 released from these techniques. Where are all the science nerds when you need them.

sweetnug
03-13-2008, 11:06 PM
Regulators and tanks are not that expensive at all. They are much easier to maintain the correct level with the use of a timer. Most DIY systems are very inconsistent, they can never be as consistent as a tank or a generator, they are hands down the best.

thc is good for me
03-13-2008, 11:27 PM
we all know co2 tanks and regs are better but i dont have one of those yet i will be buying one but not untill the next grow in two monthes i just wanted a cheap way to make co2 untill then.

Dubbaman
03-13-2008, 11:38 PM
Usually CO2 isnt needed in any grow room unless it is ALWAYS too hot, and that would be constant running temps of 90+ F.

sweetnug
03-13-2008, 11:48 PM
You mean that co2 will not help a room unless its too hot??? 90+ is too hot for co2!!! 85 max, 80 perfect. Co2 will have anywhere from a 10-50% increase in all plant functions. Co2 is actually always needed in every room(that has enough light) and the closer that the ppm of the co2 stays around 1500 ppm the faster, bigger and better growth. Every plant needs co2 to eat, the more the better.

Mr. Bubbles
03-13-2008, 11:54 PM
I am sorry if I am being negative. I would love nothing more than his topic being laid to rest with some scientific data. Surely someone will come along with some solid information.

I do not see 1 * DIY 12 oz bottle providing adequate CO2 for a computer case grow. Surely my little 3 x 3 x 5 airtight can not be sustained by such. So thinking the average closet grow is going to benefit just does not seem logical. If you are not airtight then you have to factor in some type of exchange rate into your formula.

What do I know, I am high.. Most of my thinking comes from reading I have zero experience.

Mr. Bubbles
03-13-2008, 11:59 PM
You mean that co2 will not help a room unless its too hot??? 90+ is too hot for co2!!! 85 max, 80 perfect. Co2 will have anywhere from a 10-50% increase in all plant functions. Co2 is actually always needed in every room(that has enough light) and the closer that the ppm of the co2 stays around 1500 ppm the faster, bigger and better growth. Every plant needs co2 to eat, the more the better.

90+ is to hot for CO2 ? I was considering CO2 not for growth so much as a method to combat some of the summer temps. Sounds like you may be suggesting otherwise. In two months the decision will be CO2 or AC :)

sweetnug
03-14-2008, 12:02 AM
90+ is not a temp that any plant should be grown in. Anywhere between 90-95 depending on strain will all but stop growing. Co2 does let you grow at higher temps. but those temps are too high. Get an a/c, that would be your best bet.

Mr. Bubbles
03-14-2008, 12:15 AM
90+ is not a temp that any plant should be grown in. Anywhere between 90-95 depending on strain will all but stop growing. Co2 does let you grow at higher temps. but those temps are too high. Get an a/c, that would be your best bet.

Interesting thanks. In seconds I can tie right into the houses central air. The hook ups are still there from last year but I wanted to try another route this year.

sweetnug
03-14-2008, 12:26 AM
Thats the best route trust me. I have had many problems with heat, it can be such a *****. Get an a/c with a thermostat, thats the most efficient. Don't get too big of one either, a 5500 BTU a/c pulls around 1100 watts. Take that into consideration when calculating watts used.

harvester
03-14-2008, 01:40 AM
90+ is not a temp that any plant should be grown in. Anywhere between 90-95 depending on strain will all but stop growing. Co2 does let you grow at higher temps. but those temps are too high. Get an a/c, that would be your best bet. will a air conditioner pump out co2

Cole
03-14-2008, 01:55 AM
I Bought a electric ionizer for $40 and its great to bring the room temp down or up with a built in timer and heater + it makes the so air clean

Growdude
03-14-2008, 01:56 AM
You could just open a can of pepsi to release CO2, im sure it works just as well.:p

Useless
03-14-2008, 02:47 AM
OK, check it out.
To properly benefit from the use of additional CO2, there are some parameters.
1) A steady ppm of CO2 is the only way to get a noticable increase in yields. Think of it like this, if you go to an O2 bar ( I know lame/gay/metro-sexual whatever, just an example) and get a shot of pure O2, sure you're going to feel better, for a while (maybe even loose the hangover! lol). But it does nothing for long term health. Now, if you were to breathe pure O2 through your entire life, you lungs would be healthy and clear, and functioning at max capicity, with minimal effort.
2) Sealed room is needed to prevent loss of the gas from air leaks.
3) You have to tape off the edges around glass on regular air cooled hoods and the ends of cool tubes to prevent loss from leakage if venting the lights.
4) Temps should be around 85-90 degrees F or higher depending on the PPM level used. See attached chart below.
5) Higher room temps mean higher reservoir temps if they are in the same room. Use a chiller to control the ressy.
6) Increasing CO2 increases Rh. Keep an eye on your humidity.

Hope that helps clear things up.

I have also included a copy and paste below of a thread I did on another site. It is basically a rather long but super simple formula for using a timer with your regulator, for those who cant afford a meter/controller. It also addresses ventilation issues etc. Dont be shy, just make a simple spreadsheet as outlined, and grab a calculator. Should take all of about 15 mins. Copy of the original post below -


OK this pretty much covers all CO2 parameters for those not using a CO2 ppm controller. I made this a long time ago on GK, and decided it should be posted here as well. I hope this helps answer some basic CO2 questions for you 420G members.
Cut and paste of the original post -



Ahh yes, this is why I am an engineer. :smile:
OK, evrything you ever will need to know about CO2 usage/consumption.
Its kinda long, but well worth it.
It is easiest to make a spread sheet with three columns, and 25 rows long. Then, just fill in the information. There is a little math here, so don't be afraid to grab a calculator, thats what they are made for!
Ok the formula:
a) Enter Length of the ENCLOSED room.
b) Enter Width of the ENCLOSED room.
c) Enter Height of the ENCLOSED room.
d) Multiply A x B x C = D (the volume of the enclosed grow area)
e) Enter existing CO2 levels. (350 ppm is almost a universal average)
f) Enter the desired CO2 ppm.
g) Subtract E from F. This is how much CO2 you need to supplement.
h) Multiply answer (G x 0.000001) x answer D [ex: g=1650; d=500 - therefore 1650 x 0.000001 x 500 = 0.825 (answer H)]
i) Enter Light cycle hours. How long are the lights on?
j) Enter Overall cycle time. How long from the time the CO2 goes on, sits, fans extract etc. until the next cycle starts?
k) Enter Exhaust duration. How long are the fans on, exhausting the air?
l) Enter the injection duration. How long are you wanting to inject the CO2 for?
m) Enter the injection frequency. How long do you want the CO2 OFF in between injections?
n) Add L + M to get the total injection cycle time.
o) Divide J by N (J/N) to get the scheduled injection periods per cycle.
p) Round O down to the nearest full number to get the actual injection periods per cycle.
q) Divide H by L (H/L) to determine the flow rate (CFM) to set your flowmeter to.
r) Mulitply Q x 60 to determine flow rate in CFH. (Depending on your flowmeter, if it is CFM skip to next step)
s) Add J + K. This is the Overall Cycle time. This is the CO2 cycle time + the exhaust cycle time.
t) Multiply I x 60, then divide by S (Ix60/S). This determines the scheduled injection cycles per day, and should be as close to a whole number as possible for best efficiency.
u) Round T down to a full number. This is the actual number of injection cycles per day.
v) Multiply P x U. This is the actual number of injection periods per day.
w) Multiply H x V. This is the actual CO2 usage per day.
x) Enter the bottle size in cubic feet. Small 20 lbs. tank = 172.8 cu. ft. , Large 50 lbs. tank = 432 cu. ft.
y) Divide X by W. This is how long the tank of CO2 will last.


Well, that should be a healthy homework assignment for you. Remember, it is most benficial to leave the CO2 for up to three hours before exhausting. You can always adjust cyle times etc. to get the most from your CO2. You just have to figure out what suits your grow room the best.
As a side note, a 20 lbs. tank of CO2 costs about $13-$20 to fill.


*Note* - all measurements are in calculated in feet.
Metric to Standard conversion factor:
25.4mm = 1 inch; 2.54 cm = 1 inch; 12 inches = one foot; 3 feet = 1 yard; 1 meter = 39.3 inches


I always enjoy the CO2 threads! So many entertaining posts.
I hope that helps you folks...

Mr. Bubbles
03-14-2008, 03:22 AM
Very interesting I am tagging this thread to one day implement CO2 in this manner. So it looks like optimum temp is around 77-78 given an estimated CO2 in the air. Your guide has us up in the 98-99 range peaking out for maximum growth. This coincides with much of what I have read. I am looking forward to trying out your math.

Now all we need is someone to figure out how much CO2 is produced from the DIY CO2 12 oz bottles we hear so much about.

Kupunakane
03-14-2008, 06:41 AM
Yo Ho peoples,
I don't mean to laugh at anyone in particular, but I do get a laugh out of some of this.
As a post script; Urine has been, and is still used extensively as a fertilizer.

Its high nitrogen content allows increased amino acid synthesis by plants.
Many agriculturists use urea in a diluted form, and use it as a spray on fertilizer for such new plants as sapling apple trees, and I use it in my hothouse on my pinapples as well as my collection of bromiliads, orchids, and epiphites. For a smattering of info many strains of cannabis endure far hotter temps than 90*degrees. If you find this questionable, it's cool, I don't mind, as long as we agree that research is always a good thing to do, making us understand better.
You can always look in some of the different countries where MJ is grown and check out the growing conditions. I think you might find yourselves suprised.

smoke in peace
KingKahuuna

octobong007
03-14-2008, 12:33 PM
Urine plus water plus sugar = co2 is this true i read in one of the growing articals on this site that you can make co2 by mixing water sugar and a few CCs of urine

IS THIS TRUE
please dont take this the wrong way but...umm...do you really want to put pee in your mouth, throat, and lungs? anything that goes into your ladies go into you. if you use insecticides on tomatoes, just spraying them, its absorbed into the fruit itself...eat an organic tomatoe and tell me if you taste the difference. please, i implore you (been dyin to use that word)...again, i implore you, DONT PEE ON YOUR LADIES...it scares me. someday we might be sitting down to smoke some and i dont want to smoke your pee. give them fresh air, talk to them, sing to them, even give em a little lake water, but dont p*ss on the one you love. jmo and i'm stickin with it. all the luck to ya.

bombbudpuffa
03-14-2008, 12:45 PM
I use it in my hothouse on my pinapplesRemind me not to eat pineapples at your house;).

Hick
03-14-2008, 12:56 PM
Urine can also contain antibiotics and other drug residues, filtered out by the kidneys. Not a good fertilizer.. IMHO.
Thank you "Useless" for that post :)

Useless
03-14-2008, 02:49 PM
On urine as a fert -

You must dilute it. No taking a whizz in the soil. And I sure hope you hydro folks are not using it. Also, it is my understanding not to use your urine if you have drank alchohol or taken prescription medications with 24 hours.

The problems of using urine as a fert are PH properties, strength, and waster minerals that your body is releasing as toxic can cause imbalances in the soil. The bigger problem is that the urea must break down to ammonia nitrogen, then into ammonia nitrates. Ammonia Nitrogen can be taken up by the plant, but not as readily as Ammonia nitrate. Ammonia Nitrogen also takes a while to break down into ammonia nitrates. Therefore, you see good initial results followed by an overfert if you feed with urea's too often.
IMO, urine is not a steady/stable source of N.

POTUS
03-14-2008, 04:14 PM
A rock can be used instead of a hammer. It'll get the nail in.

You can put your home grown tea leaves in a pair of silk underwear and make tea.

You can ride a horse to work instead of your car.

You can make your own bio-fuel to run your mower on.

And last but not least, you can use human urine as fertilizer for your pot plants instead of nutrients that are made to do it much better.

It's a matter of what you want to do with your life and what you put into your body.

hehe... I'll stick to my General Hydroponics Flora Series Nutrients.

I'll put my pee in the toilet where I feel it belongs.

Kupunakane
03-14-2008, 04:53 PM
Yo peoples,

You guys are smoking a tad too much. take a careful look at what my previous post really said. I said that I use urea, not human piss. Also you guys should realize that urea has been used for one heck of a long time on crops that we enjoy eating. No-one is out there pissing on thousands of acres of tomatoes,lettuce,corn, etc-etc. Get real with it.
As for human urine, aside from any bladder infection, or an infection of the urethra, human urine is sterile. I still don't pee on my plants, and I don't use urea on my smoke, though I will admit to peeing outdoors right by my outdoor grows for various reasons.
If you are going to be judgemental of anyone, then check with the facts first. Here in the USA, virtually all vegetable crops, and most fruit crops are sprayed with urea. Even though you guys are admirable in your passion to avoid this type of fertilizer, the fact is you have eaten foods that were grown with it's use period. Hope that this doesn't pop your bubbles.
Introduction

In the past decade urea has surpassed and nearly replaced ammonium nitrate as a fertilizer.
Fertilizer Urea
Urea, a white crystalline solid containing 46% nitrogen, is widely used in the agricultural industry as an animal feed additive and fertilizer Here we discuss it only as a nitrogen fertilizer.
Physical Forms of Urea

Commercially, fertilizer urea can be purchased as prills or as a granulated material. In the past, it was usually produced by dropping liquid urea from a "prilling tower" while drying the product. The prills formed a smaller and softer substance than other materials commonly used in fertilizer blends. Today, though, considerable urea is manufactured as granules. Granules are larger, harder, and more resistant to moisture. As a result, granulated urea has become a more suitable material for fertilizer blends.
Advantages of Fertilizer Urea
Urea can be applied to soil as a solid or solution or to certain crops as a foliar spray.
Urea usage involves little or no fire or explosion hazard.
Urea's high analysis, 46% N, helps reduce handling, storage and transportation costs over other dry N forms.
Urea manufacture releases few pollutants to the environment.
Urea, when properly applied, results in crop yield increases equal to other forms of nitrogen. Incorporate Urea for Best Use

Nitrogen from urea can be lost to the atmosphere if fertilizer urea remains on the soil surface for extended periods of time during warm weather. The key to the most efficient use of urea is to incorporate it into the soil during a tillage operation. It may also be blended into the soil with irrigation water. A rainfall of as little as 0.25 inches is sufficient to blend urea into the soil to a depth at which ammonia losses will not occur.
Urea Losses to the Air

Urea breakdown begins as soon as it is applied to the soil. If the soil is totally dry, no reaction happens. But with the enzyme urease, plus any small amount of soil moisture, urea normally hydrolizes and converts to ammonium and carbon dioxide. This can occur in 2 to 4 days and happens quicker on high pH soils. Unless it rains, urea must be incorporated during this time to avoid ammonia loss. Losses might be quite low in the spring if the soil temperature is cold. The chemical reaction is as follows:
CO(NH2)2 + H2O + urease http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/cropsystems/Images/arrow.gif 2NH3 +CO2
(urea) The problem is the NH3, because it's a gas, but if incorporated the NH3, acts the same as incorporated anhydrous ammonia. Also, half of 28% liquid N is urea and the same thing happens with this half as with regular urea.

See part two

Kupunakane
03-14-2008, 04:54 PM
Urea Losses Related to Soil Temperature and pH

The volatility of urea depends to a great extent on soil temperature and soil pH. Tables 1 and 2 show that after a few days warm temperatures or high pH would cause losses.

Table 1. Percent of surface-added urea volatilized as ammonia at different temperatures and days on the surface.
Temperature (F) Days 45 degrees 60 degrees 75 degrees 90 degrees
(% of added N volatilized) 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 1 2 4 2 2 4 5 6 5 6 7 10 8 5 7 12 19 10 6 10 14 20 Data abstracted from curves in SSSP 24, pages 87-90, 1960. Urea was added on a silt loam soil at 100 lbs N.
Table 2. Percent of surface-added urea volatilized as ammonia at various soil pH levels and days on the surface.
Soil pH Days 5.0 5.5 6.0 6.5 7.0 7.5
(% of added N volatilized) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 1 5 4 1 2 5 10 18 20 6 4 5 7 11 23 30 8 8 9 12 18 30 33 10 8 10 13 22 40 44 Data from SSSP 24, pages 87-90, 1960. Urea added on silt loam soil at 100 lb. N. Fall Application Comparisons

Urea can be readily nitrified—that is, converted to nitrate (NO3)— even when applied late in the fall, and can be quite susceptible to denitrification or leaching the following spring. Anhydrous ammonia (AA) applied in the fall does not nitrify as quickly, due to the stunting of microorganisms in the AA application band.
A two-year study conducted at Waseca compared late-October applications of both AA and urea for continuous corn (Table 3). These data show a 6 bu/A advantage for AA over urea when applied in the fall without a nitrification inhibitor. But when N-Serve was added, a 16 bu/A advantage was shown with AA. This indicates that the inhibitor has a better degree of contact with the AA mix than is possible with urea.


Table 3. Corn yield as influenced by N source, time of application, and nitrification inhibitor at Waseca.

1981 - 82 Avg.

N Source * Fall Spring
- - - Yield (bu/A) - - - AA (82% N) 162 168 AA + N-serve 170 172 Urea (45% N) 156 164 Urea + N-serve 154 162 *150 lb N/A Malzer & Randall Studies with continuous use of urea have been conducted at Lamberton since 1960. Corn yields over a 24-year period averaged 5 to 6 bushels per acre higher with spring application of urea compared to the fall plowed-down application (Table 4).
Table 4. Corn yield as influenced by fall and spring applications of urea at Lamberton. Time/method of Urea Application* 24-year
Avg. Yield bu/A Fall, plowed-down 97 Spring, top-dressed 102 Spring, side-dressed 103 * 80 lb N/A Urea applied in the fall has generally not been as effective as AA. This is especially true in south-central Minnesota and Iowa. When fall soil-moisture conditions are dry, there is little difference between AA and urea. But when soil-moisture content is high, fall applications of urea haven't performed as well as AA. Applications of urea-ammonium nitrate (UAN) in the fall are not recommended due to rapid nitrification and a high potential for loss.
See Part Two
Soil Application and Placement of Urea

If properly applied, urea and fertilizers containing urea are excellent sources of nitrogen for crop production.
After application to the soil, urea undergoes chemical changes and ammonium (NH4 +) ions form. Soil moisture determines how rapidly this conversion takes place.
When a urea particle dissolves, the area around it becomes a zone of high pH and ammonia concentration. This zone can be quite toxic for a few hours. Seed and seedling roots within this zone can be killed by the free ammonia that has formed. Fortunately, this toxic zone becomes neutralized in most soils as the ammonia converts to ammonium. Usually it's just a few days before plants can effectively use the nitrogen.
Although urea imparts an alkaline reaction when first applied to the soil, the net effect is to produce an acid reaction.
Urea or materials containing urea should, in general, be broadcast and immediately incorporated into the soil. Urea-based fertilizer applied in a band should be separated from the seed by at least two inches of soil. Under no circumstances should urea or urea-based fertilizer be seed-placed with corn.
With small grains, 10 lb. of nitrogen as urea can generally be applied with the grain drill at seeding time even under dry conditions. Under good moisture conditions, 20 lb. of nitrogen as urea can be applied with the grain drill. Research results at North Dakota State University indicate that under dry conditions, urea at the rate of more than 20 lb. nitrogen per acre, applied with a grain drill in a 6-inch spacing, can reduce wheat stands more than 50% (Table 5) Research at the University of Wisconsin indicates that seed-placed urea with corn, even at low rates of nitrogen, is very toxic to the seed and greatly reduces yields (Table 6). When urea was side-placed as a 2" x 2" starter, however, little if any damage was noted (Table 7).
In Minnesota, good crop production usually requires an application of more than 20 lb. of nitrogen per acre. Farmers can avoid damage from urea by broadcasting most of the urea nitrogen fertilizer ahead of seeding. Data in Table 8 indicate that urea broadcast prior to seeding is equal to or more effective than similar ammonium nitrate treatments.
Table 5. Seed-placed ammonium nitrate (AN) and urea comparisons on seedling damage to spring wheat under limited moisture conditions. North Dakota, 1975. TREATMENTS Seedlings per 40 ft. of Row N
(lb./A) N
Source Location Absaraka Williston Casselton 0 - 600 270 760 20 AN 570 220 600 30 AN 590 240 690 40 AN 590 260 660 20 Urea 400 200 550 30 Urea 280 110 430 40 Urea 220 70 220 Source: Dahnke, North Dakota State University, 1975.

Table 6. Effect of urea and ammonium nitrate placed with seed on corn grain yield. Wisconsin, 1973.
Yield, bu/A lb. N/A* Urea Ammonium Nitrate 0 137 137 5 60 142 10 36 143 20 33 92 * Sufficient N broadcast prior to planting. Source: Liegel & Walsh Plainfield Sand, Hancock, Wisconsin

Table 7. Effect of urea and ammonium nitrate side-placed on corn grain yield. Wisconsin, 1973.
Yield, bu/A lb. N/A* Urea Ammonium Nitrate 0 142 142 25 145 145 50 146 146 100 150 141
*Sufficient N broadcast prior to planting. Source: Liegel & Walsh Plainfield Sand, Hancock, Wisconsin.

See part three

Kupunakane
03-14-2008, 04:56 PM
Table 8. Effect of source and placement of urea and ammonium nitrate (AN) on corn yields. Lamberton, Minnesota Experiment Station, 1960-84. lb. N/A Treatment Source Av. Yield
bu/A 0 — 62 40 Plow-down—fall AN 79 40 Plow-down—fall Urea 86 40 Surface—fall AN 82 40 Surface—fall Urea 85 80 Plow-down—fall AN 98 80 Plow-down—fall Urea 97 160 Plow-down—fall AN 104 160 Plow-down—fall Urea 105 40 Topbress—spring AN 89 40 Topdress—spring Urea 88 80 Topdress—spring AN 100 80 Topdress—spring Urea 102 Source: MacGregor, Malzer and Nelson, University of Minnesota Spreading of Urea

Urea can be bulk-spread, either alone or blended with most other fertilizers. It is recommended that the spreading width not exceed 50 feet when combined with other fertilizer materials.
Urea often has a lower density than other fertilizers with which it is blended. This lack of "weight" produces a shorter "distance-of-throw" when the fertilizer is applied with spinner-type equipment. In extreme cases this will result in uneven crop growth and "wavy" or "streaky" fields.
Blending Urea with Other Fertilizers

Urea and fertilizers containing urea can be blended quite readily with monoammonium phosphate (11-52-0) or diammonium phosphate (18-46-0).
Urea should not be blended with superphosphates unless applied shortly after mixing. Urea will react with superphosphates, releasing water molecules and resulting in a damp material which is difficult to store and apply.
Fluid Urea

Uniformity of particle size is important with dry solid urea, whether applied directly or in blended formulations. Some imported urea appears to be below U.S. quality standards on granule uniformity. Dissolving urea and marketing the liquid solution is an attempt to overcome this lack of uniformity and still take advantage of the favorable urea price.
The liquid mix of urea and ammonium nitrate (UAN 28% N) has been on the market for a long time. The characteristics of this solution, however, are not the same as when urea alone is dissolved in water. A solution of 50% urea by weight results in 23-0-0 and has a salting-out temperature of 60 degrees F. In order to store and handle liquid urea during cooler temperatures, the nitrogen concentration must be lowered to reduce salting problems. There are several possible formulations that can be used for this, such as adding small amounts of ammonium nitrate, ammonium sulfate, or anhydrous ammonia.
Research, particularly on liquid urea, is very limited. Generally, where dry urea functions successfully, the fluid urea should perform equally well and may have the advantage of better uniformity over some dry urea sources.
Biuret in Urea

Biuret in urea can cause agronomic problems if placed near the seed. or even if added preplant in bands where seeds will later be planted.
Most U.S. manufacturers of urea keep biuret content low by keeping high temperatures to a minimum. Biuret content is typically around 0.3%, although urea of foreign origin appears to be higher.
High heat is normal during the manufacture of urea. If heat exceeds 200 degrees F there is a slight conversion of urea to biuret, but this takes place only during the manufacturing process. No such conversion happens in storage or in the soil.
Biuret converts to ammonia, but conversion is much slower than for urea. Since biuret remains in the soil for several weeks, the potential for seed damage continues beyond the brief period of conversion of urea to ammonia. The major damage of biuret is to germinating seeds. There is little damage through plant absorption, although some citrus crops have been affected.
Application of Urea to Growing Crops

Urea can be applied to sod crops, winter wheat. or other small grains. This application, however, should be made during cool seasons. During warm periods (60 degrees F or above), urea in contact with vegetative material will tend to give off ammonia.
If urea must be applied on grass pastures in the summer, apply when there is a high probability of rainfall.
Foliar Application of Urea

Urea can also be applied as a foliar spray on some crops, such as potatoes, wheat, vegetables, and soybeans. Urea is highly watersoluble. At normal atmospheric temperatures, approximately 1 lb. Of urea can be dissolved in 1 lb. of water.
Research data indicate that urea should contain no more than 0.25% biuret for use in foliar sprays. For many crops the quantity of nitrogen applied at one time should not exceed 20 lb. of nitrogen per acre.
Urea Storage

Urea is neither combustible nor explosive. It can be stored safely with no loss of quality under normal circumstances. Small or fast-moving augers should not be used to move granular urea. Urea particles are generally soft and abrasion can break the granules. Belt conveyers should be used whenever possible.
Urea should not be stored with ammonium nitrate. These materials, when in contact, rapidly absorb water when the relative humidity is above 18%. Table 9 indicates the relative humidity at which urea and ammonium nitrate absorb moisture from the air.
Table 9. Critical relative humidities (CRH) of urea, ammonium nitrate, and a mixture of the two. Material CRH% Urea 75.2 Ammonium Nitrate (A.N.) 59.4 Urea + ammonium nitrate 18.1 Slow Release Of Urea

Urea fertilizer can be coated with certain materials, such as sulfur, to reduce the rate at which the nitrogen becomes available to plants. Under certain conditions these slow-release materials result in more efficient use by growing plants. Urea in a slow-release form is popular for use on golf courses, parks, and other special lawn situations.
Urea Do's and Don'ts

Store separately from ammonium nitrate.
Do not use small, fast-moving augers to move the urea.
Do not exceed a spreading width of 50 feet when urea is applied.
Do not place in direct contact with corn seed.
Keep rates of nitrogen applied together with small grain in drill to 10 1b. on dry soils, 20 lb. when soil is moist.
Apply urea on sod crops when atmospheric temperature is below 60 degrees F.
When urea is broadcast on soils of high pH (above 7.5), the material should be incorporated into the soil as soon as possible. Curtis J. Overdahl
Extension Soils Specialist George W. Rehm
Extension Soils Specialist Harvey L. Meredith
Department of Soil Science
COLLEGE OF AGRICULTURE, FOOD, AND ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENCES


smoke in peace
KingKahuuna

bombbudpuffa
03-14-2008, 05:07 PM
I was just poking fun KK.

Growdude
03-14-2008, 06:05 PM
So how is Urea made? sorry didnt read all of your post KK

POTUS
03-14-2008, 06:20 PM
So how is Urea made?

Urea
A single-nutrient fertilizer that contains a large amount of nitrogen and is manufactured from ammonia and carbon dioxide. It is also used in resin adhesives.

urea, carbamide (http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?o2=&o0=1&o7=&o5=&o1=1&o6=&o4=&o3=&s=carbamide) (the chief solid component of mammalian urine; synthesized from ammonia and carbon dioxide and used as fertilizer and in animal feed and in plastics)

Wikipedia: Urea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urea)

Information from the University of Minnesota: Urea (http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/cropsystems/DC0636.html)

Kupunakane
03-14-2008, 06:34 PM
Yo Ho BBP,
You know how I get my hackles up sometimes, but I do know that you were just fooling around, Oh my gosh don't get serious on me, I am serving pineapple tonight, LOL

smoke in peace
KingKahuuna

bombbudpuffa
03-14-2008, 07:03 PM
I am serving pineapple tonight, LOLUh Oh:D.

Mr. Bubbles
03-15-2008, 02:13 AM
Yo Ho peoples,
I don't mean to laugh at anyone in particular, but I do get a laugh out of some of this.
KingKahuuna


Please do not take this the wrong way. I find all of your post in this thread off topic. This thread is not about fertilizers ;)

Surely I am just high but my hope is we discuss DIY CO2 production and just how effective this method really is.

POTUS
03-15-2008, 02:18 PM
For those of you who have larger areas that you want to maximize CO2 in, the "Johnson CO2 Generator" may be a good deal.

Under a thousand bucks for a complete, total CO2 maximization in up to 4,000 square feet.

XXX.johnsongas.com/industrial/CO2Gen.asp

(Replace the XXX with www and paste it into your browser)

Cole
03-16-2008, 03:27 AM
Yea 90-95 is crazy but if you cant afford a AC or Cooling unit then you can buy a IONIZER it will bring the temp down to about 80 -85. It also strerlizes the air.(plus built in timer on recent models)Hope this helps

POTUS
03-16-2008, 01:54 PM
Yea 90-95 is crazy but if you cant afford a AC or Cooling unit then you can buy a IONIZER it will bring the temp down to about 80 -85. It also sterilizes the air.(plus built in timer on recent models)Hope this helps

I think perhaps you didn't look at the chart that was offered.

At 98.6 degrees F, **IF** the lighting, nutrients AND CO2 are maximized, the photosynthesis is also maximized.

Keep in mind that only 1.4 degrees higher will have very, very negative effects on the plant. This type of accuracy is done in a lab or with a system that uses very precise temperature controls.

If all aspects of the grow are maximized and the temps are at about 85 to 90 degrees and ALWAYS kept below 100 F, then yes, the plants will grow at an astronomical rate.

One step over 100 and you start backing up.

If the plant doesn't have maximized water and oxygen to the roots, nutrients and light, then adding maximized CO2 is a waste of time and money.

Maximized water and oxygen to the roots = Ebb and flow hydroponics only. This isn't debatable unless you go with Aeroponics, and it's prone to problems that don't happen with ebb and flow.

Maximized nutrients = For ebb and flow, any properly mixed hydro nutrient made for marijuana.

Maximized lighting = 6,000 Lumens per/square foot of growing area.

If you use those parts of the total equation, your plants will grow as fast as they are able to under PERFECT circumstances.

Useless
03-16-2008, 02:45 PM
I think perhaps you didn't look at the chart that was offered.

At 98.6 degrees F, **IF** the lighting, nutrients AND CO2 are maximized, the photosynthesis is also maximized.

Keep in mind that only 1.4 degrees higher will have very, very negative effects on the plant. This type of accuracy is done in a lab or with a system that uses very precise temperature controls.

If all aspects of the grow are maximized and the temps are at about 85 to 90 degrees and ALWAYS kept below 100 F, then yes, the plants will grow at an astronomical rate.

One step over 100 and you start backing up.

If the plant doesn't have maximized water and oxygen to the roots, nutrients and light, then adding maximized CO2 is a waste of time and money.

Maximized water and oxygen to the roots = Ebb and flow hydroponics only. This isn't debatable unless you go with Aeroponics, and it's prone to problems that don't happen with ebb and flow.

Maximized nutrients = For ebb and flow, any properly mixed hydro nutrient made for marijuana.

Maximized lighting = 6,000 Lumens per/square foot of growing area.

If you use those parts of the total equation, your plants will grow as fast as they are able to under PERFECT circumstances.

Excellent post.
I do however, disagree with the statement that ebb n flow or aero is the only way to provide proper aeration of the nutrient solution. Any type of hydroponics can provide ample oxygenation of nutrient solution. Key word is "can". Just about any type of system can be made to provide ample aeration and therefore maximum O2 levels in the nutrient solution.
Cheers

POTUS
03-16-2008, 03:32 PM
Excellent post.
I do however, disagree with the statement that ebb n flow or aero is the only way to provide proper aeration of the nutrient solution. Any type of hydroponics can provide ample oxygenation of nutrient solution. Key word is "can". Just about any type of system can be made to provide ample aeration and therefore maximum O2 levels in the nutrient solution.
Cheers

Thank you. However, I'm very sorry but Ebb and Flow has been proven to supply the most oxygen to the root system.

There is no debating it.

There is a HUGE difference between "Ample" and "Most".

I was referring to supplying the MOST oxygen to the roots to provide MAXIMUM growth using MAXIMUM conditions favorable to photosynthesis.

Ebb and Flow is it. Nothing else even comes close.

IF you want to maximize the oxygenation to the root system, Aeroponics is the absolute best method. Because of it's inherent problems with clogging, ebb and flow has long been recognized as the next best method.

Sticky_Budz
03-16-2008, 03:38 PM
I heard when your in your grow room talking to your plants your breath produces co2 that also helps your plants Is this true??
This is a great thread with alot of info I love all the post on it great to have some humor along with it have a great day every one peace

POTUS
03-16-2008, 06:15 PM
I heard when your in your grow room talking to your plants your breath produces co2 that also helps your plants Is this true??


Yes, it does, but in very small quantities. It doesn't hurt them at all, so talk to them if it makes you feel better.

Useless
03-16-2008, 06:39 PM
Thank you. However, I'm very sorry but Ebb and Flow has been proven to supply the most oxygen to the root system.

There is no debating it.

There is a HUGE difference between "Ample" and "Most".

I was referring to supplying the MOST oxygen to the roots to provide MAXIMUM growth using MAXIMUM conditions favorable to photosynthesis.

Ebb and Flow is it. Nothing else even comes close.

IF you want to maximize the oxygenation to the root system, Aeroponics is the absolute best method. Because of it's inherent problems with clogging, ebb and flow has long been recognized as the next best method.

If you look at my post I did not argue the point that aero provides the most oxygen to the root system, with EnF following a close second. I agree 100%. (Although, I have never performed a test to determine oxygen to water saturation levels in the root zone of either an aero or EnF system to get actual values).
I was refering the oxygen saturation level of the nutrient solution. DWC, NFT, etc. can all be made to have maximum oxygen saturation in the nutrient solution.
However that said, I also agree maximum oxygen levels in the root zone, while using CO2 does indeed provide greater growth than simply an oxygen saturated nutrient solution.
We are in total agreement as far I can tell, simply discussing different aspects of the optimal environment for CO2 usage.
Cheers

POTUS
03-16-2008, 07:06 PM
If you look at my post I did not argue the point that aero provides the most oxygen to the root system, with EnF following a close second. I agree 100%. (Although, I have never performed a test to determine oxygen to water saturation levels in the root zone of either an aero or EnF system to get actual values).
I was referring the oxygen saturation level of the nutrient solution. DWC, NFT, etc. can all be made to have maximum oxygen saturation in the nutrient solution.
However that said, I also agree maximum oxygen levels in the root zone, while using CO2 does indeed provide greater growth than simply an oxygen saturated nutrient solution.
We are in total agreement as far I can tell, simply discussing different aspects of the optimal environment for CO2 usage.
Cheers

The amount of oxygen that reaches the roots is what makes the photosynthesis work at whatever rate. The amount that is in the nutrient solution doesn't really matter in this regard.

The bottom line is that maximum photosynthesis will be reached by Ebb and Flow over any other type of Hydroponics other than Aeroponics if all other plant requirements are met and maximized.

Sorry man, I thought you were disagreeing with this end result.

TheSquirrelKing
03-16-2008, 08:39 PM
lol, i don't think piss would produce any co2. just use yeast, water and sugar just make sure alcohol don't form by dumping some of the water out every week and replacing with fresh water and another teaspoon of sugar. I'm doing this and i have to say my plants are growing like three times as fast, but I'm really doing this so i will only need a little ventilation, my fan, and it gives my plants all the air they need in a closed off grow environment.

trillions of atoms
03-17-2008, 12:31 AM
I wouldnt use urine in any form in the growroom, espicially in a stagnating condition....