Water conditioner

[Herm722]

What do you all think about using water cnditioner from the fish store to clean my water a bit? Will it hurt me at all? Im using dwc ppm at 650 (hosewater) thanks

[bombbudpuffa]

If you're talking about the chlorine remover then no. Don't use it.

[Growdude]

What kind of water conditioner?

[Herm722]

I was looking at some stuff on ebay, someone recommended using water conditioner for fish tanks, yes the one that removes chlorine. Just wanted to be sure before I go and poison all my plants. So not a good idea? Also, do i really need Flora micro hard water instead of the regular Micro. Can I get away with the regular Micro? Any experience?

[bombbudpuffa]

What kind of water are you using? I think they sell tests to determine if your water is hard or not.

[Growdude]

That portable RO filter I gave you a link too in the other thread is going to be the cheapest way to get Good water you wont have to worry about.
Unless you can use rainwater.

[bombbudpuffa]

Unless you can use rainwater.I love using rainwater. The plants seem to perk up everytime I give them some.

[Herm722]

I will tell you again, if you use normal micro, you will burn your plants. If it did not matter if you used this then G/H would not make it. They don't make hard water grow or bloom, because the problem it hard water is not N-P-K, it is the micro nutrients.

It seems like you don't like the advice you are being given, I was the one that told you about your hard water, and offered the solution of hard water micro, I did the research and gave you the info. Are my facts not valid?

This is your grow and you are going to do what you feel you have to do, but if you don't like the info then research it yourself. Your water is 720 ppm, that is literally off of the charts. The only advice I can give you is the same advice that I have already given you. At the bare minimum you need hard water Micro

peace and happy growing

Why hostiliy? I have taken your advice into consideration. Thats why im posting this question. I love all the advice you all have given me. The only reason i am asking again is because there is so much conflicting info out there. One person says one thing, and another say something else. Who should I beleive. Plus i have a grow right now with the high ppm water and nutes (yes regular micro) and there is no burn. I probly will buy the hard water micro, just trying to save some cash bro.

[bombbudpuffa]

Water conditioners can cause a salt build up over time. Add that with the salt build up from ferts and you could have a problem. I guess if you flush regularly water conditioners are good. I wouldn't use them but thats just my preference.

[Cook_]

never had a problem with using water conditioner on my plants... plus this aint soil bbp ;)

[Cook_]

Why hostiliy? I have taken your advice into consideration. Thats why im posting this question. I love all the advice you all have given me. The only reason i am asking again is because there is so much conflicting info out there. One person says one thing, and another say something else. Who should I beleive. Plus i have a grow right now with the high ppm water and nutes (yes regular micro) and there is no burn. I probly will buy the hard water micro, just trying to save some cash bro.

Micro is for HID with very rich oxygenated waters after around 2weeks after surfacing from the soil DO NOT USE WITHOUT HID lights

[Growdude]

Micro is for HID with very rich oxygenated waters after around 2weeks after surfacing from the soil DO NOT USE WITHOUT HID lights

I really dont know what you are saying but the micro has nothing to do with lights.

[Cook_]

I really dont know what you are saying but the micro has nothing to do with lights.

The only time if at all you need to use micronutrients in hydro is if your using distilled water where incase the nutriets arent there :ignore: using regular water and regular nutrients is the best case for growing hydro not rain water or any other of those types of filtered water cause they lack the minerials needs :ignore: In point if USING HID this will increase the need for both MACRO and MICRO nutrients :p

[massproducer]

Hey Cook, I grow exclusively in hydro, and yes you need Micro nutrients. While I agree that some of these are in tap water they are not all in tap water and not all at the levels needed. If you were growing in soil then micro nutes would not be as important because most of these micro nutes are present in acceptable levels in prepared soil mixes. But in hydro Micro nutes are just as important as macro nutes, under or over feeding micro nutes will cause a whole host of problems, from burning to lockout to stunting of growth.

[bombbudpuffa]

never had a problem with using water conditioner on my plants... plus this aint soil bbp ;)Oops:o. Yep...I am the wrong guy to give info on hydro...sorry.

[Cook_]

Hey Cook, I grow exclusively in hydro, and yes you need Micro nutrients. While I agree that some of these are in tap water they are not all in tap water and not all at the levels needed. If you were growing in soil then micro nutes would not be as important because most of these micro nutes are present in acceptable levels in prepared soil mixes. But in hydro Micro nutes are just as important as macro nutes, under or over feeding micro nutes will cause a whole host of problems, from burning to lockout to stunting of growth.

Thats completely false my friend micro nutrients are not important in hydro thats like saying taking vitimans are always gonna help :doh: which cause more problems if taken wrong your plants dont really need since your creating somewhat perfect inviroment for them to grow in please read what micronutrients do to your plants which arent much :doh: basic N-P-K is all you need and change your solution every 2 weeks problem solved :rolleyes: now I do agree with helping with organisms like like unsulfured mollases guano teas worm casting teas and stuff like that in blooming but micro nutrients in Veg stage is upsurd :p

[Cook_]

Oops:o. Yep...I am the wrong guy to give info on hydro...sorry. NP water conditioner is pet and human friendly ;)

[massproducer]

Thats completely false my friend micro nutrients are not important in hydro thats like saying taking vitimans are always gonna help :doh: which cause more problems if taken wrong your plants dont really need since your creating somewhat perfect inviroment for them to grow in please read what micronutrients do to your plants which arent much :doh: basic N-P-K is all you need and change your solution every 2 weeks problem solved :rolleyes: now I do agree with helping with organisms like like unsulfured mollases guano teas worm casting teas and stuff like that in blooming but micro nutrients in Veg stage is upsurd :p

You have to be the first person that I have ever talked to that said micro nutrients were not important in hydroponic gardens.

While yes N-P-K are your major nutes, you NEED Magnesium, calcium, Sulphur, Iron, boron, Manganese, and Zinc. These can not be gotten in the amounts that your plant needs in tap water, especially things like magnesium and calcium, your plants use magnesium at a rate sometimes even greater then my mirco can provide which is why a lot of hydro and soil growers supplement with epsom salts.

Check your nutes because if you use a 2 part system, like grow and bloom then your micro nutes may be already added to your formula.

Also micronutes are not like vitimans, superthrive and B1 are vitimans, micro nutes are more like vital calories.

Here is a link:

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1956

[Cook_]

Never used it in my dads time or mine and between us both weve had atleast 30 years experience All im saying is
Excessive use of macronutrients or micronutrients
interfere with uptake of a plant and in IN hydroponics the basis of your theory calcium and magnesium which the plant doesnt need... your obviously not getting the facts your plant DOES NOT NEED the micronutrients and after that I read your more likely 2 get better effects foliar feeding which reduces the point of growing marijuana in the first place... U dont want these things in hydroponic marijuana the point is 2 be less soil based the only reason use N-P-K's is because they need it for a higher yield once

Once you show me in a few words one reason one micronutrients cause greater blooming better growth I dont see why you need to make hydroponics any harder then it really is..

[Cook_]

In every single one of the N-P-K's it shows why you dont need micronutrients but if you insist on micronutrients use them i deffinately will never need them

[massproducer]

I just posted a whole thread in this same section that explains in detail exactly what each nutrient does. Plants need Magnesium, this is not a theory, it is a fact.

I have no idea what you are talking about anymore, you lost me. We are not talking about bloom additives or whatever, we are talking about the basic nutrients needed for plants to grow.

N-P-K is Nitrogen-Phosphorus-Potassium, these are your Marco nutrient, the ones your plants use the most of. There are also secondary nutrients such as calcium and magnesium, and several other trace elements, all of which are vital to plant growth in general.

It is not about micro nutrients boosting blooms, it is about the FACT that they are required for growth. Photosynthesis can not happen without magnesium, plants can not even absorb light without magnesium.

Just read my other thread

[massproducer]

For some reason you are talking about bloom boosters, we are talking about basic plant nutrients here, not bloom boosters, when i said N-P-K i am taking about Macro nutrients, the major nutrients, Nitrogen, Phosphorus and potassium. I think that you are confused

In every single one of the N-P-K's it shows why you dont need micronutrients but if you insist on micronutrients use them i deffinately will never need them

[Cook_]

When I see in a reg orchard store or HYDROPONICS magnesium... or calcium as its own seperate micro nutrient ill believe you my friend ;)
Micronutrient fertilization should be used when
verified deficiencies exists, or when certain crops have a
high nutrient requirement, such as boron for beets.
Because most micronutrient soil tests have relatively low
reliability (except soil B), micronutrient plant analysis
will probably provide a better estimator of micronutrient
need than soil tests.

any more ramble from you?

[Cook_]

Relative Crop Response
Vegetables show a wide range of response to
micronutrients, and a micronutrient deficiency is highly
crop-specific. If the soil is low or deficient in a certain
micronutrient, response to application of that
micronutrient would likely occur if the crop has a high
requirement for that micronutrient; response would
probably occur if the crop has a medium requirement;
and response would likely not occur if the crop has a low
requirement. For example, boron is the most widely
deficient micronutrient in vegetables. Under conditions
of low boron supply in the soil, crops like beets,
broccoli, and cauliflower, which have a high requirement
for boron, would likely show a growth response to boron
fertilization, while crops such as beans, cucumbers, and
peas, which have relatively low requirements for boron
would be unresponsive to added boron fertilizer.
Relative crop requirements of various vegetables for
micronutrients are indicated in the table below

[Cook_]

My point clearly why use it???

[massproducer]

Relative Crop Response
Vegetables show a wide range of response to
micronutrients, and a micronutrient deficiency is highly
crop-specific. If the soil is low or deficient in a certain
micronutrient, response to application of that
micronutrient would likely occur if the crop has a high
requirement for that micronutrient; response would
probably occur if the crop has a medium requirement;
and response would likely not occur if the crop has a low
requirement. For example, boron is the most widely
deficient micronutrient in vegetables. Under conditions
of low boron supply in the soil, crops like beets,
broccoli, and cauliflower, which have a high requirement
for boron, would likely show a growth response to boron
fertilization, while crops such as beans, cucumbers, and
peas, which have relatively low requirements for boron
would be unresponsive to added boron fertilizer.
Relative crop requirements of various vegetables for
micronutrients are indicated in the table below

You are jumping from hydro to soil, from specific to general. I already said that if you grow in a balanced soil then most of your micronutrients are already present in the soil. But if you are using a soil-less medium or a water culture then these minerals and metals are not present.

I am not going to argue with you about the fact that marijuana plants need micronutrients all night, when I just posted an entire article explaining exactly why and how ALL of the marco and micro nutes are used.

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24126

here is a small portion though:

Over twenty elements are needed for a plant to grow. Carbon, hydrogen and oxygen are absorbed from the air and water. The rest of the elements, called mineral nutrients, are dissolved in the nutrient solution.
The primary or macro- nutrients (nitrogen (N), phosphorus (P) and potassium (K)) are the elements plants use the most. Calcium (Ca) and magnesium (Mg) are secondary nutrients and used in smaller amounts. Iron (Fe), sulfur (S), manganese (Mn), boron (B), molybdenum (Mo), zinc (Zn) and copper (Cu) are micro-nutrients or trace elements.
Trace elements are found in most soils. Rockwool (hydroponic) fertilizers must contain these trace elements, as they do not normally exist in sufficient quantities in rockwool or water.

PLEASE go and read my other article it will explain it in more detail

[massproducer]

If the soil is low or deficient in a certain
micronutrient

If you read your own post, it says add micro to SOIL if the soil is deficient. soil already has many of the micro nutes that are needed, hydroponics means to grow without soil, you grow in an inert medium. It has no natural marco or micro nutes, it is inert. That means that you have to add EVERY single nutrient that you plants will need. Even if they are trace mineral or metals that your plant hardly uses, it still needs trace amounts in order to grow. Like i said, in soil a lot of them are already present because soil is not inert, it has trace elements, hydro don't.

It really is that simple

[Cook_]

Im sorry if your still not getting it... Micro nutrients are there to meet minor deffiencys nothing else my friend... like taking enchicea pills when your feeling sick its not a regular thing

[massproducer]

Have you even read the post that I posted...Micro nutrients are not for deficiencies, you can not get a deficiency of something you do not require

[massproducer]

what brand of nutrients do you use?

[Cook_]

...again your saying what im saying the only reason the plant would be used to that curtain element is if it needs it in its genetic make up THAT IS WHAT I AM SAYING

[Cook_]

and theres alot of ways to keep your plant healthy and green without them

[massproducer]

I just looked up your last posted grow, where you used shultz 10-15-10, do you know that that is fortified with micronutrients, so that brand of nutes/fertilizer already has micro nutes, so you do not have to add any more. But if that did not have those trace elements, then you would have to add them.

[Cook_]

The amounts were so small Iron (Fe) = 0.10%
0.10% chelated iron
Manganese (Mn) = 0.05%
0.05% chelated manganese
Zinc (Zn) = 0.05%
0.05% chelated zinc

[Cook_]

but your right that it uses micro nutrients

[massproducer]

because that is all that your plants need, that is why they are called trace elements, and that actual brand is not really even a hydroponic nutrient, that is geared to work wit the other trace amounts that are already present in soil. In a balanced hydroponic nutrient there will be more trace elements with higher concentrations, because there is no trace elements in a hydroponic medium like water, or rockwool

[massproducer]

but most hydro growers here use General hydroponics flora series nutrients, which is a 3 part system, that has grow, bloom and micro, if you grow hydro, then you may want to look at a brand like that, i will see if i can find a link

[massproducer]

here is a link to general hydroponics flora series website, check it out, you may even find something that you like :hubba:

http://www.generalhydroponics.com/genhydro_US/floraseries.html

[Growdude]

Never used it in my dads time or mine .

The amounts were so small Iron (Fe) = 0.10%
0.10% chelated iron
Manganese (Mn) = 0.05%
0.05% chelated manganese
Zinc (Zn) = 0.05%
0.05% chelated zinc


but your right that it uses micro nutrients

So you do use micro nutes.
Ive never seen a complete hydro formula that doesnt include micro nutes.

[bombbudpuffa]

All plants Must have micros. The most common deficiency in MJ is magnesium and calcium, especially in hydro systems.

[Cook_]

Ty for the link I never had a problem with my yield or with my plant and i was using half strengh or about 2 14 drops on about a 5 gallon container never needed much micronutrients band i had 2.5' plant

[Herm722]

I went ahead and ordered the flora hardwater micro. Thanks to massproducer. When i went to pick the ph adjuster at the pool shop the guy told me that the water around here has 400 ppm of calcium. As for water softeners.... I read the labels of the water softeners at petsmart, they say that they remove chlorine, and heavy metals.