Long Veg Cycles

[IllusionalFate]

Is there any disadvantages to having a long veg cycle? Something around 5-6 weeks in 18/6 before switching over to 12/12. If I can get the highest yield possible off 3-4 plants in 2'-3"x" 4'-8"x"8'-0" (width x length x height respectively) by growing them tall AND bushy, I want to extend the veg cycle for as long as possible to get the highest yield total. Would this be a good idea? The grow area would recieve 3045 lumens per sq ft. for vegetative state and 5234 lumens per sq ft. during flower.

[nickname]

If you want big plants you need the output to make it worth while,

while yes a bigger plant can yield more than a smaller plant, for an indoor grower the light penetration is what matters, if your using a 400w hps for flower then the light is only going to penetrate so far no matter how big the bush, you will still get the same yield just the stand the buds are on would be bigger.

24/0 is the lighting schedule you want to use for veg as it provides the best growth. Plants don't need a rest.

[IllusionalFate]

Yeah, I could see that as a problem. Is there any way I could increase the light penetration if the plants will be under a 400 watt hps for flower?

[littlenode]

Ill let you know in about 7-12 weeks. I've had 6 plants in flower for 3 weeks, that were veg'd for 170 days, thats 24 weeks. Lsting, supercropping, fiming, hell, I've seen it all. They are under a 1000 watt hps now, and looking fine, I'll post some pics soon. What type of lighting are you using?

[nickname]

Yeah, I could see that as a problem. Is there any way I could increase the light penetration if the plants will be under a 400 watt hps for flower?

No the light penetration is what it is as light diminishes exponentially.

The best way to maximise the yield from a 400w is to grow as less foliage as possible and to grow as much bud as possible, this is best achieved with clones in a sea of green,

take the clones let them root then give them about 7 days veg and then flower them, you should grow just a foot tall bud and thats it, which should allow you to get the clones as close as possible and thus growing a bigger percentage of bud to foliage

[nickname]

Ill let you know in about 7-12 weeks. I've had 6 plants in flower for 3 weeks, that were veg'd for 170 days, thats 24 weeks. Lsting, supercropping, fiming, hell, I've seen it all. They are under a 1000 watt hps now, and looking fine, I'll post some pics soon. What type of lighting are you using?

I'm not 100% :confused: but i'd take a guess at 400w?

[littlenode]

Ahh..lol..you beat me to the post..ok...400 watt hps, not bad, I think a 600 would be better, and you dont need to use all the height...consider using lst, or doing a sog, or scrog, IMO tall and bushy isnt the way to go.

[The Hemp Goddess]

You have a little over 10 sq ft there. A 400 will give you less than 40W per sq ft. A 600W would be a lot better--it penetrates much better and provides more lumens per watt than the 400.

I don't think that tall and bushy is the way to go, either. Even with a 1000W, the lower branches do not get enough light and you have a bunch of popcorn buds.

[Crazy Horse]

I will be growing this type of style starting fall, less plants and more veg time. I would rather have 4 plants 4 oz's a piece, than 16 plants and 1 oz each. If the Feds come a knocking, I would rather have 4 plants and not 16. Proper trimming, topping, and some lst, u can have all your colas up top like a nice canvas, and not have to worry about trying to get light down to the lower buds (cause there won't be any). It takes awhile to perfect, it will take sometime, and a few grows to get use to doing. So do a little research, don't go too crazy if it is your first grow and ease into these growing techniques, and u will be rewarded with some nice heavy dank buds.

[snuggles]

I usually do a 6 to 8 week veg. sometimes longer when growing from seed, it also has a better chance of giving you some nice clones. I am getting away from it from now on, it's tough to get anymore yiled offf a big plant, and I have 2 400s and a 600 running on the plants. Wisp...wisp...wisp. I have decided when I start back up that I will be using 3 600s and 3 400s and I am not going to veg that long. It is fun and the plants look great but the yield doesn't go up in my opinion. Good luck with it, and a lot of the above posters had some great ideas to help you out, too much work for me anymore LOL.

[IllusionalFate]

I forgot about this thread! Thanks for all the replies, I might have to reconsider how I go about this grow now.

To clarify, I am not looking for the highest yield for the space. I will be growing from seeds, not clones, and am aiming for the highest yield possible per plant. I'm on a budget, but I will buy a 600 watt Lumatek over a 400 watt if it is the better option of the two for what I want to achieve.

[widowmaker]

Well.. I grew my 4 plants under my 400w hps in hydro for 4 weeks, they were about 2 feet when i flowered them and they are in about the same size room you have. Now they are about 4 to 5 feet tall at 3 weeks in flower. There are very little bud sites in the lower parts of the plants but the canopy is covered with flowers. I don't see much if any bud sites lower than about 3 feet of the plants which is what crazy horse was talking about with not have many buds in lower parts of the plants.

[snuggles]

Hey IF,
I would always recommend a 600 over a 400, as long as the ventilation is good why not? I have 3 400s but they are from before when I wasn't so wise LOL. I would definitely always go with a 600 if I could, even over a 1k but that's just me. The only thing with 600s is they don't make MH for them, you have to get a MH conversion bulb but IMO it's no biggie. Good luck, also if you want a good place to get one cheaply and they have great customer service check out htgsupply. I got my 600s in cooltubes for about 300USD a piece...with both bulbs that's a great deal IMO.

hxxp://www.htgsupply.com/ (http://www.htgsupply.com/)

If you scroll down on that page you will see they have a 600 for sale, it's not a Lumatek but I thought it might still be of some interest to you.

[IllusionalFate]

The reason why I originally chose 400 over 600 is because I thought for the grow area it would be the optimum amount of light. If 5000 lumens per sq ft. is what I need, I have it with a 400w. No matter what ballast I end up with, there will be sufficient ventilation and air circulation as there will be an air-intake fan, an in-line fan for exhaust and a fan in the grow room for air movement.

Thanks for the link snuggles. I'm going to stick with the Lumatek but get the MH bulb from HTGsupply. This is the one I had in mind if I go with the 600w:
http://www.htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=52453

[Crazy Horse]

I will be growing this type of style starting fall, less plants and more veg time. I would rather have 4 plants 4 oz's a piece, than 16 plants and 1 oz each. If the Feds come a knocking, I would rather have 4 plants and not 16. Proper trimming, topping, and some lst, u can have all your colas up top like a nice canvas, and not have to worry about trying to get light down to the lower buds (cause there won't be any). It takes awhile to perfect, it will take sometime, and a few grows to get use to doing. So do a little research, don't go too crazy if it is your first grow and ease into these growing techniques, and u will be rewarded with some nice heavy dank buds.

Oops, Illusional I forgot u don't believe in advanced growing techniques!:p

[IllusionalFate]

Oops, Illusional I forgot u don't believe in advanced growing techniques!:p
When they lead to an increase in yield, then I love those growing techniques! :D

LST is something I may consider, though I don't know if I have the space for it.

[Crazy Horse]

Like supercropping lol.

[IllusionalFate]

Like supercropping lol.
If anything, supercropping reduces yield because the plant focuses more energy into the stem than the buds. Why would thickening a small section of the stem increase yield?

[DesertFig]

I use a grow chamber that is 4x4x6 it has 2, 400watt metal halide for a total of 800watts. I keep temps at 75* with a 30% humidity for 4 weeks. I use a cocktail of FoxFarms, Advanced Nutreients and Botanicare products. I get a very nice veg plant that has yield potential above well SOG guidelines.

[Crazy Horse]

If anything, supercropping reduces yield because the plant focuses more energy into the stem than the buds. Why would thickening a small section of the stem increase yield?

:rofl: . U don't pinch during flowering cycle silly. And I pinch more than just "one" spot on my stems, so it will make the majority of the stem thicker. It's the same principle as vegging longer. Vegging longer will give u larger stems right? In relation, vegging longer gives u larger buds right? Making any sense yet? Show me one plant that has skinny stems that produces a huge yield, and I will show u 50 plants with thick stems that will out produce that plant. ;)

[Timmyjg6]

listen to crazy.... Also if you are really trying to get the most amount of yield from a certain area, what you can do is SOG or SCROG or LST. I would try scrog or LST if i were you. What you do is while still young in veg i would super crop the heck out of it while FIM'ing or TOP'ing a few times to make sure you have a few branches busting up thin you can start to LST her. Just start tying down the taller branches so you have an even canopy. And after say a month i would throw into flower with a SCROG... That way you can maximize your yield to how wide your grow area is... Look on youtube for SCROG...

[IllusionalFate]

:rofl: . U don't pinch during flowering cycle silly. And I pinch more than just "one" spot on my stems, so it will make the majority of the stem thicker. It's the same principle as vegging longer. Vegging longer will give u larger stems right? In relation, vegging longer gives u larger buds right? Making any sense yet? Show me one plant that has skinny stems that produces a huge yield, and I will show u 50 plants with thick stems that will out produce that plant. ;) I think real factors that determine yield are topping, LST, and other training grow methods such as SCrog. If the stems are strong enough and grow properly without supercropping I don't see a reason to use it.

This is what happened when I supercropped:

[Crazy Horse]

Cool green lines.

[IllusionalFate]

The green lines are an attempt at outlining the stem to show it leaning over at the supercropped section, is it really that difficult to decipher? :rolleyes: