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warfish
11-27-2009, 01:44 AM
Hello all :) First time posting for me so go easy! hehe
Ok so the scenario is I have a room full of plants (bag-seed) I have started in a series of passive hydro systems. The plants are about 1.5 weeks out of the soil now and all is going well, there thriving as I had hoped.

Ok so the dillema is that today I ordered a few good beans and with that will need room. What I'm wanting/hoping to do is start the grow room on a 12/12 now so that I can weed out all the males early to make room for the new seed's in 2 weeks and then revert back to 24 to start the veg over on them and to veg the new seeds.

So my questions would be 1. are they too young at this point and if so how long out of ground until I can safely do this, and 2. Does anyone see a better way or have any better ideas to share on the matter? and 3. is there any negative side effect from doing this besides the extra 2 weeks growth time basically lost on the bagseed?

Thanks in advance for any and all help :)

Warfish

LEFTHAND
11-27-2009, 02:04 AM
Hello all :) First time posting for me so go easy! hehe
Ok so the scenario is I have a room full of plants (bag-seed) I have started in a series of passive hydro systems. The plants are about 1.5 weeks out of the soil now and all is going well, there thriving as I had hoped.

Ok so the dillema is that today I ordered a few good beans and with that will need room. What I'm wanting/hoping to do is start the grow room on a 12/12 now so that I can weed out all the males early to make room for the new seed's in 2 weeks and then revert back to 24 to start the veg over on them and to veg the new seeds.

So my questions would be 1. are they too young at this point and if so how long out of ground until I can safely do this, and 2. Does anyone see a better way or have any better ideas to share on the matter? and 3. is there any negative side effect from doing this besides the extra 2 weeks growth time basically lost on the bagseed?

Thanks in advance for any and all help :)

Warfish

Heya ya warfish..
if you have good beans on the way. clean up.. get rid of the bag seed.. get what ya need. and be prepared.. read up on the beans your getting to help further your aid in growing them..
the bag seed can be just a pain in the arse..
1.5 wks is a lil early... 2.5 more and i would say you could probally do er..
then the way i do it is ..
..take a cutting from each vegging plant.
..mark to which plant it belongs to.
..put into cup with water/rockwool/cloner for 10 days or so and that cutting will tell you the sex of the plant..
after that throw the cuttings out and the males..
... (the above can be done when there is 3 good sized tops)
do you know what the bag seed is warfish..
me personally would get me poop in a group for the REAL deal.. hehe happy growing.. play safe...
LH

PUFF MONKEY
11-27-2009, 02:50 AM
be prepared for sure ...you don't want to find yourself in my shoes lol

gourmet
11-27-2009, 03:58 AM
then the way i do it is ..
..take a cutting from each vegging plant.
..mark to which plant it belongs to.
..put into cup with water/rockwool/cloner for 10 days or so and that cutting will tell you the sex of the plant..



R U saying a ten day clone will show sex where the mother plant hasn't yet?

Hamster Lewis
11-27-2009, 04:22 AM
You can not sex a plant till it is sexually mature which means it has alternating nodes...if you do it sooner nothing will happen...even if you take a clone before it is sexually mature the clone is not going to show till the original donor plant is ready or even later since cloning is pretty invasive and you will spend 10-14 days waiting for it to root and who knows how long that wld push back the clone in reference to the donor plant...

The Hemp Goddess
11-27-2009, 04:32 AM
:yeahthat:

ozzydiodude
11-27-2009, 04:37 AM
Dirty let's :48::48: and relax dude.

DonJones
11-27-2009, 04:58 AM
welcome to the forum,

First, what is a passive hydro and what does "out of the ground" have to do with passive hydro?

You didn't mention how experienced you are so I'm going to give you two difeernt ways.

If you aren't pretty experienced, and your post doesn't sound like you're real experienced to me, I would suggest saving your purchased seeds until you get the bag seed grow finished or nearly finished. That way any mistakes you make won't be hurting paid for plant(s).

Even if you are experienced,I would wait on starting your purchased seeds at least until your bagseed ones are far enough into flower to be able to easily sex them. That will give ytou one of the most important and least common growing skill -- and one I need a lot more of -- which is patience. Most good growers agree that the three most common causes of serious damage done to plants of any kind are over feeding, over watering and generally just getting in a hurry because the grower becomes an impatient overly protective meddling parent. We all tend to love them to death, literally.

When they were talking about using clones to sex, what they really meant was to mark the clone and then after the parent shows its sex, you pull both the male parent and offspring. That also helps you preserve the best of the plants in your grow because you can dispose of the clones of the under performing mothers and keep the clones of the best mother(s) alive without Having to mess with revegging. HOWEVER, NEVER LOOSE A STRAIN BECAUSE YOU FORGOT TO CLONE IT BEFORE FLOWERING IT. YOU CAN CLONE ANY HEALTHY PLANT AT ANY TIME, IT JUST IS HARDER AND TAKES MORE TIME. ALSO, YOU CAN SACRIFICE SOME OF THE FIRST CROP AND REVEG THE MOTHER. IF SHE IS REALLY GOOD YOU WILL RECOVER THAT SACRIFICE MANY TIMES OVER FROM HER CLONES.

We all want our results yesterday but good things really do come to those who wait. Coming from a truck driver like me, believe me it is a hard lesson to learn but well worth it.

Good smoking and Happy Thanksgiving.

If you find a quick, easy and reliable way to sex early, please let me know because I'm just starting to grow from seed instead of clones and have a strict plant limit as a medical grower in WA and hate to tie up my allowance with male seeds and the plants they grow into..

legalize_freedom
11-27-2009, 07:10 AM
I don't know how you would clone a plant 1 1/2 week to begin with??? what would you cut....lol

That crazy vancouver guy
11-27-2009, 07:42 AM
lol... off the tap root....lol:cool:

Hardcore-Blaza
11-27-2009, 01:11 PM
flip the lights till u see sex then flip back to veg once u know

LEFTHAND
11-27-2009, 02:11 PM
I don't know how you would clone a plant 1 1/2 week to begin with??? what would you cut....lol

if you all read it it said......... 3-4 TOPS.... and atleast 4 weeks + old..... the cutting doesnt have to root to show the sex...... and after 4-6 weeks there should be alternating nodes...
and your not cloning if more or less taking a "waste cutting" you can do the same with the whole plant if you want but why when you can take a cutting rom the plant sex it and throw the cutting away and keep vegging the males.....
LH

LEFTHAND
11-27-2009, 02:13 PM
flip the lights till u see sex then flip back to veg once u know

Thats a good way to provock HERMI's.....
if you take a cutting from the "sexually mature plant" in 10+ days it will show you your sex.....
LH

warfish
11-27-2009, 04:27 PM
Thanks to all who have replied. I wasnt sure if I would get many responses at all let alone the nice info you all have provided. Special thanks to Lefthand, Donjones, and Hamster.

My passive hydro system's are just wick and bubbler systems. This will be my 2nd grow with this method although the first one was years ago with much less light. That grow yielded excellent quality meds but the quantity was just not there with only one 100w hps. This time around I am using a 1000w MH for veg then will swap to 1000w hps for bloom. Currently I am using the Maxigrow/bloom (thank you Bigbudsbruddah for the nice charts on plant phase ppm) line although I have read from someone here that I should switch up my nutrients during grow and bloom phase to ensure there getting all the proper elements. Hoping for much fatter product :)

I started the room with bag seed mostly to work out the kinks and get the temp and humidity right before trying good seed. I have my temp at around 82-84 now and am fairly content with that considering how much light they are under. I am a bit worried that my humidity level is too low though. Kind of thinking of leaving a pan of water on a small shelf I have that is basically 3 ft under the 1000w lamp for evap/humidty vs having to plug in more stuff (humidifier).

Any tips tricks or ideas are all appreciated as I am no pro yet :) but learning rapidly and having a blast!

Warfish

The Hemp Goddess
11-27-2009, 04:33 PM
Thanks to all who have replied. I wasnt sure if I would get many responses at all let alone the nice info you all have provided. Special thanks to Lefthand, Donjones, and Hamster.

My passive hydro system's are just wick and bubbler systems. This will be my 2nd grow with this method although the first one was years ago with much less light. That grow yielded excellent quality meds but the quantity was just not there with only one 100w hps. This time around I am using a 1000w MH for veg then will swap to 1000w hps for bloom. Currently I am using the Maxigrow/bloom (thank you Bigbudsbruddah for the nice charts on plant phase ppm) line although I have read from someone here that I should switch up my nutrients during grow and bloom phase to ensure there getting all the proper elements. Hoping for much fatter product :)

I started the room with bag seed mostly to work out the kinks and get the temp and humidity right before trying good seed. I have my temp at around 82-84 now and am fairly content with that considering how much light they are under. I am a bit worried that my humidity level is too low though. Kind of thinking of leaving a pan of water on a small shelf I have that is basically 3 ft under the 1000w lamp for evap/humidty vs having to plug in more stuff (humidifier).

Any tips tricks or ideas are all appreciated as I am no pro yet :) but learning rapidly and having a blast!

Warfish

Since your RH is low and your temps are high (you really want to keep your temps below 80), you might want to consider an evaporative cooler. It puts moisture in the air and will drop your temps probably 4-10 degrees.

warfish
11-27-2009, 04:46 PM
Thank you HempGoddess, thats a great tip :) unfortunately the money pool has temporarily dried out so I am trying to make due with what I can for now, sigh. I really want the perfect room, but I guess in time it will be if I keep learning and improving it ;)

Warfish

legalize_freedom
11-27-2009, 07:08 PM
if you all read it it said......... 3-4 TOPS.... and atleast 4 weeks + old..... the cutting doesnt have to root to show the sex...... and after 4-6 weeks there should be alternating nodes...
and your not cloning if more or less taking a "waste cutting" you can do the same with the whole plant if you want but why when you can take a cutting rom the plant sex it and throw the cutting away and keep vegging the males.....
LH

Understood your post! wasn't trying to slam you man, I generaly value your oppinion. I was speaking of the original poster, and not knowing how they thought they would be able to get a cutting off of something that young. Patience sucks, but we all have to deal with it. If your going to start with bagseed then you need to be prepared for males, bottom line. Personaly I would yank the bagseed and start the good genetics, unless it is your first grow, then grow them out figure out your style, and then grow the good seeds...GL!

Also Warhead, what do you have for ventilation??...are your lights aircooled? that would help with temp. I like my room below 80 for sure!

warfish
11-27-2009, 07:19 PM
Small update ...
Special thanks again to Hempgoddess who made me reevaluate my temps and improve my room, Yay!
After alot of looking, thinking, puffing, and repositioning of a couple fans I have managed to drop the temps in my room a couple more degrees. It is around 83 at the ceiling and about 79 2 feet off the floor. I use an infrared temp guage for checking.

Side note...
For s & g's I decided to use my temp guage to measure the heat coming directly off the 1000w lamp. My guage immediately displayed Err msg and blinked, then turned off and no longer turns back on, lol! live and learn rofl :) Glad i have a couple spares, hehe (I play around with nitro remote control vehicles and need to track there temps)

Warfish

LEFTHAND
11-27-2009, 09:07 PM
[quote=legalize_freedom]Understood your post! wasn't trying to slam you man, I generaly value your oppinion. I was speaking of the original poster, and not knowing how they thought they would be able to get a cutting off of something that young. Patience sucks, but we all have to deal with it. If your going to start with bagseed then you need to be prepared for males, bottom line. Personaly I would yank the bagseed and start the good genetics, unless it is your first grow, then grow them out figure out your style, and then grow the good seeds...GL!
quote]

I as well didnt mean to come out as a rude tone if i came off that way hehe.. it was early and lets say i woke up on the wrong side.. my bad if i directed it towards you in an agrly fashion...

LH

legalize_freedom
11-28-2009, 05:00 AM
No sweat Brother, I have those days frequently...seems like both sides of my bed are the wrong side anymore...lol Have a good one bud! BTW you sounded more defensive than offensive...but either way I didn't want you to think I was ragging on you...I can't recall you ever saying anything that wasn't solid! Peace!

warfish
11-28-2009, 11:33 PM
Thanks to all who have replied so far. Hoping to pick your brains with a couple more questions along the way if I can ;)

I am currently using Maxigrow/Bloom. After finding the nice nutrients ppm chart here on this site I see they recommend a couple other nutrients along with the maxigrow. I am a bit budget strapped now after my recent investments so I was wondering if I could get opinions on what additonal nutes and or foilar spray that I should make getting asap a priority?

Also I was wondering how much more yeild per plant I should expect from this grow (1000w lamp) over my last (150w lamp) if all things other than lamp where considered equal from one grow to the next?

Thanks much for all the help :)
Warfish

legalize_freedom
11-29-2009, 02:57 AM
well I'll be happy to help if I can, although I am not a hydro guy, so some of these others will be more of a help than me. As far as your yeild, they say 1 gram per watt is the goal to shoot for, I have not been able to achieve that yet, but like I said, I'm a soil grower. I do not foliar feed once flowering has begun, because I don't think it increases yeild, and you run the risk of mold, and mildew...that is my oppinion though, I know alot of people do foliar. I have done both, and the yeild is not significant enough to take the risk IMO. Good Luck with your grow!

warfish
11-29-2009, 03:08 AM
Thank you Legalize Freedom, the gram per watt thing is just the kind of comparison I was looking for on that.

Still a bit lost on whether I need to add additional nutrients to my buckets on top of the maxigrow I'm currently using.

Warfish

legalize_freedom
11-29-2009, 07:08 AM
I'm not familiar with that line of nutes, or, like I said hydro, but I'm sure one of the hydro growing gurus will be along to lend you a hand with that.

warfish
12-02-2009, 05:58 PM
Hello again all :)

Update on my decisions and the grow room as it stands now...

After much thought and great advice from people in this thread and throughout the forums I have been able to dial in my room to where I think it should do well now. My temps are between 76 and 80 (thanks again to HempGoddess, I really thought 85 was fine, but now sitting in my garden is a joy with perfect temps) and humidity is around 30%. I will be at 6,250 lumens per sq ft for flower under an HPS lamp and am at 5,100 for veg under a MH lamp.

So the advice from DonJones and from LegalizeFreedom where both put to work for me here, lol. DonJones wanting me to grow out the bag seed for the experience and Legalize wanting me to clear out the room and clean up and get ready for good seeds :) What I ended up doing was clearing out half of my room and keeping the best looking bag seed plants. With these I am going to mess around with the nutrients levels and try some LST as they veg. I plan on starting my good seeds aproximately 3 weeks behind the bag seed and let them veg up nice and fat, then flower the whole room.

Now I know what your thinking, my bag seed plants will overwhelm my room and take the light from the good seeds. Well this would be the case except I have an extra 4'X4' area on either side of the 24 sq feet im using to move the bag seed plants to later. I'm not worried about them obtaining there optimum grow as they are mostly here for learning at this point.

I tried to pick some seeds that where supposed to be fairly hardy and decent for a beginner. I also wanted a mostly sativa (White Widow) and a mostly indica (Northern Lights) so I have a better idea of what I like to grow and med with more. While I have been self medicating for like over 25 years I have never been in the financial position to afford the good strains, so that part is really mostly new to me. I also will be receiving a few free seeds that I may try as well.

I would like to do a grow journal, but at this point in time I have no camera available to me so I am hesitant to make a journal. Let me know what you all think :) Any advice and or tips are always greatly appreciated!

Thank you,
Warfish

legalize_freedom
12-02-2009, 07:33 PM
I think you will be happy with both strains, I've never grown any of the "white" anything...but I know alot of people who do...I have NL #5 from Dr. Atomic...You should be set. The only concern I have for you is that you keep an even canopy, the WW being sat dom, may want to grow taller than you NL, so some lst may be in order here, and you will want to start that at an early stage. Hopefully you get a camera, and can get a journal going, it will be alot easier for us here to help you if we can see what is going on, especialy with deficiencies ph problems, etc. I'm excited for ya! Good Luck!

Oh yeah, where did you order your seeds from, and whose genetics?

warfish
12-02-2009, 08:53 PM
Legalize,
As I said I am really just learning on strains and genetics, so I am a bit lost on what info your asking for. I ordered from attitude and the 2 I chose are Seedsman Seeds White Widow Feminized, and Royal Queen Seeds Northern Light Feminized. Hope I did good, hehe ;) Fill me in on what it is your looking for if you could :p . Hate being the new guy on the block but you all have been warm enough to not make me feel silly for asking stuff :D I do try to research and read alot, but one thing I have found is there is alot of contradicting advice. Glad you are all here to help me sort through it :) Wow, must be good smoke today, I'm happy to be alive!

Thanks,
Warfish

legalize_freedom
12-03-2009, 01:02 AM
I'm happy your'e alive to! You gave me the info I was seeking, I've never used the Attitude, but alot of people here have and I have not heard one bad thing about them. So you get an A+ for that, and as far as the breeders I know Seedsman, are good quality genetics...the other I'm not familiar with but I don't think the Attitude will sell just any joe schmoe seeds, so they are probably good to...I look forward to watching you and your garden grow!