My first hydro system!

[Offspring_36]

Im planning on building my own hydroponic system on a smallish scale just as an experiment. Ive never had anything to do with it before but after seeing some of the grow journals (especially stoney buds DIY system) i thought id give it a go myself. Firstly i thought i'd go for an Ebb & flow system, it seemed to me to be the simplest and easiest to build. I havent actually built anything yet as i wanted to run it by people who know what they're talking about first. so here's my plan;

I have two plastic tubs one is 35x75x6.5(cm) deep and the other is 35x75x50deep. The smaller tub is roughly 43litres and the larger is 130L. The smaller tub sits perfectly inside the larger which means i would loose about 43L so my reservoir is now about 87L. The smaller tank has a lid which i would cut 4-6 holes in for the pots, i would put pots filled with clay pebbles in the holes in the top tank. The lid of the tank is clear, would it be best to paint it or something to stop the light getting to the nutrient solution??. I would try and grow the first batch from seed.

Here is a list items i planned to get;
*nutrient pump
*2metres of 13mm pipe (inlet pipe)
*1meter of 19mm pipe (drainage pipe) <-- I thought it would be better to get a larger diameter pipe for the drainage to decrease the risk of a blockage??
*19mm water tight grommet fitting(http://www.growell.co.uk/p/0357/13mm__19mm_Grommets.html)
*flood and drain fittings (http://www.growell.co.uk/p/0898/Flood_and_Drain_Fittings.html)
*Air pump ( not sure i really need this)
*General hydroponics Flora nutrients
*Hydroton Clay pebbles 10L

If don't know what else im going to need? I also have no idea about What flow rate pump i should get? would something like this do? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RENA-400SI-HYDROPONICS-POND-PUMPS-RRP-23_W0QQitemZ230088747207QQihZ013QQcategoryZ43555QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I also don't know about growing seeds for hydro and transplanting etc... Id really appreciate any help as im sucha newb at this. Thanks :D

[Offspring_36]

I will get some pics of the reservoir etc on a bit later, Thanks

[caribbean_smoker_20]

Well what you would usually do is just germinate the seeds and then transplant them into starter cubes when you see signs of life.Im not sure if i'm following your setup..so you're planning on having the larger tub as the res and the other as the grow chamber for the plants?No individual buckets?

[Offspring_36]

The way i pictured it was that the nutrient solution is pumped from the reservoir into the smaller tray which sits directly above the reservoir, in which there will be 6 - 8 Pots filled with hydro clay pebbles. The Nutrient solution is drained back into the reservoir once it reaches the height of the drainage pipe. Exactly the same as this diagram but the grow tray will sit inside the reservoir because the trays that im using are designed to be stacked like it.

[caribbean_smoker_20]

Hmmm.I wish I could help you with that type of EF but im just not knowledgable enough :o

[Growdude]

I think it looks loke a good setup, I would start the seeds in rockwool then when they root you could place them in your setup very easy.

Also that pump you have linked should work but you are going to need a timer to time your flood and drains.

[Brouli]

i agree w with your setup i just finsh something like that also and work for me but i use peat pelets and just put them in bigger rockwool cubes and there you grow :)


to me seem s like peat pelets grow faster then rockwool

[Brouli]

o yaaa that pump that you post link to is more then enof for yuor size man
i got little question why not just use paint bucket's or rubermaid container's ?? one for each

[Offspring_36]

thanks for the replies, what do you mean paintbuckets or rubbermaid containers? instead of plant pots? confused :confused:

Ive got some pics here to show the reservoir and grow tray (in theory) and the grow area. I put a sheet of Mylar on a curtain rail to cover the front which seems to be working at the moment. Shame the plants arn't doing so well :mad:.

[Offspring_36]

Oh yea i forgot to ask. About the pump, when its finished pumping and i want the water to drain, will the pump just allow the water to return via the inlet pipe? i figure that the pump must have some sort of non-return valve or something??

[Offspring_36]

also (sorry bout all these posts) sorry Caribbean_smoker, I didnt mean that to sound patronizing! Im sure you know far more about this than me :)

[Stoney Bud]

Oh yea i forgot to ask. About the pump, when its finished pumping and i want the water to drain, will the pump just allow the water to return via the inlet pipe? i figure that the pump must have some sort of non-return valve or something??
You'll have to find out if the pump allows back flow. Most pumps of that type do.

I would suggest that you either cover your containers with something or paint them. You don't want light hitting the nutrient solution. It'll cause a lot of algea growth that will play havoc with your ph and nutrient usage.

The rest of your system looks great man. You've done great research.

[caribbean_smoker_20]

SB and the other experienced E+F guys can explain ;)

[Offspring_36]

well i know i cant be going too wrong if you think its good SB! I seem remember reading that you have experience with the Flora nutrients, how much should i buy considering the size of my grow?? Also what do you think the optimum amount of plants would be in this system? And in what size pots etc?? Thanks for the help :D

[Brouli]

rubermaid containers are the one that you have on the pictures those pot you call

[Stoney Bud]

well i know i cant be going too wrong if you think its good SB! I seem remember reading that you have experience with the Flora nutrients, how much should i buy considering the size of my grow?? Also what do you think the optimum amount of plants would be in this system? And in what size pots etc?? Thanks for the help :D

What kind of pots are you talking about? I thought you were building an ebb and flow system.

What are the dimensions of your grow area?

[caribbean_smoker_20]

Offspring_36, the setup that you showed doesnt require any 'pots'.The plants are suspended in the tray which sits above the res.If, perhaps, you go with another form of the E+F setup (http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6674), then you would require buckets or some suitable substitute that would hold each individual plant.

[Growdude]

Offspring_36, the setup that you showed doesnt require any 'pots'.The plants are suspended in the tray which sits above the res.If, perhaps, you go with another form of the E+F setup (http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6674), then you would require buckets or some suitable substitute that would hold each individual plant.

I have the micro garden ebb-flow and it does have pots that sit in the tray, you dont have to use them but if you want to move them into another system as I do it does make it easy.

[allgrownup]

OK i was planning on a DWC but like this concept. Seems a little more complicated though as if you have a pump burn up your feedings done. I leave for periouds of time and would probably be worring all the time.

My questions,

Would it be worth having 2 pumps working simotaneously? Maybe one would be a much lower flow rate or maybe both would be slightly less. But in the event of failure you have at least some form of backup?

Also, in the great diagram provided there is no mention of bubbler or air stones. Could this system benefit in both the resevior as well as tray?

Am i just complicating things? I want to spend a little more up front on my system to help out not only with the success but also i don't want to have to upgrade for a long time. I just want to focus learning on the basics of growing and have confidence my system is right.

thx

[allgrownup]

which leads me to another question. If you use the pots with hydro clay pebbles in the tray would you still need any amount of hydro around the outside of the nest pot? I would think that if you have it in the pot you could just fill in around with river rock for support? Just a cost cutting measure?

I apologise if my questions are repetitive. Just getting started. I've been lurking the last couple days and haven't seen reference to these ?'s so i'd thought i'd speak up.

Are the results very different between Deep Water Culture and this ebb & flow setup?

[Offspring_36]

So you're not supposed to use pots in an E+f system? should i fill the entire grow tray with clay pebbles then?? ahh maybe my research wasnt so great after all! :o i was just thinking it would be easier to move the plants and gain access to the reservoir etc if they were in individual pots, would i loose anything by using pots?? About the air stones i put an Air pump as a 'maybe' on my list of things to get, I wondered if the return flow would airate the nutrient enough?

[Stoney Bud]

OK i was planning on a DWC but like this concept. Seems a little more complicated though as if you have a pump burn up your feedings done. I leave for periouds of time and would probably be worring all the time.

My questions,

Would it be worth having 2 pumps working simotaneously? Maybe one would be a much lower flow rate or maybe both would be slightly less. But in the event of failure you have at least some form of backup?

Also, in the great diagram provided there is no mention of bubbler or air stones. Could this system benefit in both the resevior as well as tray?

Am i just complicating things? I want to spend a little more up front on my system to help out not only with the success but also i don't want to have to upgrade for a long time. I just want to focus learning on the basics of growing and have confidence my system is right.

thx
Two pumps wouldn't do anything for you. Air stones are unnecessary with ebb and flow, they wouldn't help anything.

[Brouli]

stoney i got everything exept conectors they will arive this thursday

[Stoney Bud]

So you're not supposed to use pots in an E+f system? should i fill the entire grow tray with clay pebbles then?? ahh maybe my research wasnt so great after all! :o i was just thinking it would be easier to move the plants and gain access to the reservoir etc if they were in individual pots, would i loose anything by using pots?? About the air stones i put an Air pump as a 'maybe' on my list of things to get, I wondered if the return flow would airate the nutrient enough?

No pots are necessary. You just fill the grow chamber with the media and put the plants into the media at a level that gets them wet on each fill. I always put my reservoir seperate from the grow chamber so I can fill or work on the nutrients without bothering the grow chamber. I've learned to do this thru trial and error over the years with ebb and flow. The roots grow all thru the media. It makes no difference if you use pots or not. You wont' be moving those plants out of the media. The pots aren't needed. The nutrient solution doesn't need to be aerated. The roots of the plants get all the air they need between fillings.

[Offspring_36]

Ok i understand now. yea after reading that it does seem pointless to have pots. The only thing is, unless i have my grow tray on my reservoir i loose alot of space and as they seem to sit like it fine i think i'll try it for the moment. I can see what your saying that its gonna be difficult to access the nutrients though. I'll probably end up having to keep the reservoir seperate :rolleyes:, Thanks for the help, im gonna try an get all the bits next week so should have it set up soon :D ill keep ya posted!

[Stoney Bud]

I can see what your saying that its gonna be difficult to access the nutrients though. I'll probably end up having to keep the reservoir seperate...
You can offset your grow chamber so that one side of the reservoir is in the open. Enough to fit your arm in if you had to.

[Growdude]

You can offset your grow chamber so that one side of the reservoir is in the open. Enough to fit your arm in if you had to.

This is how the Micro E+F is made.
Now what I am doing with mine is just vegging up the clones in it and then move them into the Hydro farm units.

[Offspring_36]

Ok so i got all the connectors, pipes and media this morning. Ive got 5 big bud seedlings growing in rockwool, about 4 days old now. now im a bit stuck. When should they be moved into the E+F system? When they are moved how many times a day should they be flushed etc?? Im using the General Hydroponics Flora series nutrients, when should i start feeding this to the seedlings? and at what amounts? I know it says on the bottles but that may not apply for MJ?? The hydroton clay pebbles are very dusty, which i presume could clog up the pump so im gonna rinse them off, is that a sensible idea?? Any help is much appreciated:farm::D

[Stoney Bud]

Ok so i got all the connectors, pipes and media this morning. Ive got 5 big bud seedlings growing in rockwool, about 4 days old now. now im a bit stuck. When should they be moved into the E+F system? When they are moved how many times a day should they be flushed etc?? Im using the General Hydroponics Flora series nutrients, when should i start feeding this to the seedlings? and at what amounts? I know it says on the bottles but that may not apply for MJ?? The hydroton clay pebbles are very dusty, which i presume could clog up the pump so im gonna rinse them off, is that a sensible idea?? Any help is much appreciated:farm::DThe dust shouldn't be any problem to you. Your pump won't even see it. You'll notice it collect on the bottom of your reservoir.

The Flora Nutes are great for MJ. I use them exclusively. However, they are strong as hell and shouldn't be used at all on seedlings.

After your seedlings have roots showing on the outside of the rockwool, it's safe to move them into your ebb and flow system. When you do, make sure you bury them so that the rockwool is below the top fill level of your grow chamber. Then, start with 1/4 strength vegging solution until the plants are about 6 inches tall. Then move up to 1/2 strength. When I say move up, I mean only the nutrient solution you add each day or two. Not trying to adjust the entire reservoir.

After the plants are sexually mature, you can move up to 3/4 strength and watch them to see if they handle it good. Any sign of stress from the nutes and you'll need to back it down again. When the plants are well established and growing fast, then try full strength.

Make sure you ALWAYS mix your nutes in a separate container and put the BROWN MICRO nutes in first, then mix and rinse your measuring device before allowing the GREEN OR RED nutes to touch it.

The Micro nutes can cause lockout if you do anything else.

Good luck man!

[Offspring_36]

Hey SB, Thanks for the reply. only a couple of the seedlings have roots outside the rockwool so far. How often should i pump the nutrients round?? foolishly i havn't got a digital Ph meter yet. I only have Litmus paper which is really hard to get an accurate reading! should i get a digital one?? im guessing its got to be pretty accurate? Ill get some pics on here later! Thanks again SB!

[Stoney Bud]

Hey SB, Thanks for the reply. only a couple of the seedlings have roots outside the rockwool so far. How often should i pump the nutrients round?? foolishly i havn't got a digital Ph meter yet. I only have Litmus paper which is really hard to get an accurate reading! should i get a digital one?? im guessing its got to be pretty accurate? Ill get some pics on here later! Thanks again SB!You're very welcome man. I enjoy helping growers. I wish I could do it full time, but I have this bad habit of needing money to live. hahahahaha

I have my pump set to run one hour on, two off, 24/7.

Lot's of nutrients, lots of oxygen, the plants love it!

Some day, I'll buy a pH tester. I've never used one, but I do love gadgets.

[Offspring_36]

You can get away with out using a Ph meter because you have years of experience. Will i, a complete novice, get away with just using the Litmus paper you think? Everything ive read says its important to keep it between 5.5 and 6.0, should i measue the PPM aswell?? So many questions so little time!

Unfortunatley i think everyone has that bad habit of yours Stoney:(

Thanks for your help again :)

[caribbean_smoker_20]

Wow Stoney.So you never monitor your Ph at all??Or do you use strips?

[Stoney Bud]

Wow Stoney.So you never monitor your Ph at all??Or do you use strips?Well I tried it once, but they threw rotten fruit at me instead of money.....Oh, you mean test strips...hahahaaha, nope, I just use experience. You'll gain it more with every grow.

[Offspring_36]

Heres some pics of the seedlings and the E+F all ready for them. Nothing very interesting but thought id share it :D, its cost me about £70 ($130??) so far, so not alot.

[Stoney Bud]

Heres some pics of the seedlings and the E+F all ready for them. Nothing very interesting but thought id share it :D, its cost me about £70 ($130??) so far, so not alot.Nice and clean looking system man. I would suggest covering the containers with something to keep the light out. When light hits nutrients, algae grows like crazy. This will cause you a lot of problems later with nutrient and pH imbalance. Tapeing some black cardboard over it or even spray painting it black would be easy. The ones I use are the thick, dark blue ones you can't even see a bright flashlite thru.

You also need to bury the overflow end or adjust it to keep the water level from rising about the point at which it is two inches below the top of the media. The top two inches of the Hydroton should NEVER get wet. It needs to stay dry to prevent algae growth on it and also to prevent light from penetrating into the wetness where it would cause algae growth. That container needs to be covered or painted all the way to the top.

When lots of roots are showing on the outside of the cubes, you can then put them into the ebb and flow. This will make the root system strong enough to prevent breakage during the insertion of the cubes into the media. You need to be VERY careful when placing them into the system. Root breakage causes transplant shock, the degree of which is determined by the severity of the damage. Bad damage to the roots could get you a "He/She"

Good luck man!

[Offspring_36]

sorry, another question. so i can just stick them in now? And not feed nutrients, just water still?

[Stoney Bud]

sorry, another question. so i can just stick them in now? And not feed nutrients, just water still?Yes, you could. Be very careful of the roots. Once they are in the ebb and flow, you won't be able to take them out again. That's why I wait until I know they are all ready. If one has problems while in the system, you can't take it out.

[BushyKush420]

You're very welcome man. I enjoy helping growers. I wish I could do it full time, but I have this bad habit of needing money to live. hahahahaha

I have my pump set to run one hour on, two off, 24/7.

Lot's of nutrients, lots of oxygen, the plants love it!

Some day, I'll buy a pH tester. I've never used one, but I do love gadgets.

hey so do u still not use a ph meter? and its all good growth or whats up with that and what size pump do u use??

[Stoney Bud]

hey so do u still not use a ph meter? and its all good growth or whats up with that and what size pump do u use??Nope, I've never even seen a ph meter except on the net. I've been growing weed a long, long time man.

I use a 185 gallon/hour Beckett pond pump.

[Offspring_36]

Im beggining to think that your like Dr.dolittle but with plants SB!:batman

I think im gonna wait until ive got some roots showing on all seedlings then put them in the system. I'll keep ya'l posted. Thanks for all the help! :)

[BushyKush420]

:48: Thanks stoney bud hey by chance do u use a dripper setup because im looking for the thing that the pump pumps water to and it has a few different setups like 6 8 10 12 hoses then u connect ur hose to that hose along with a spike?? i hope u know what im talking bout..:confused:

[Stoney Bud]

Thanks stoney bud hey by chance do u use a dripper setup because im looking for the thing that the pump pumps water to and it has a few different setups like 6 8 10 12 hoses then u connect ur hose to that hose along with a spike?? i hope u know what im talking bout..No, I don't use a drip system. I use ebb and flow. Start your own thread in this area and just ask about it. You'll get lots of answers.

[Offspring_36]

Hey, another question im afraid! Im having troubles finding something that will completly stop the light getting to my reservoir, Any ideas? i know you said paint, but any particular paint thats more effective than others??

[Stoney Bud]

Hey, another question im afraid! Im having troubles finding something that will completly stop the light getting to my reservoir, Any ideas? i know you said paint, but any particular paint thats more effective than others??
Depending on the type of plastic the container is made from, paint adherance is a trial thing.

What you could do is get some sand paper. Scuff the entire container so that it's nice and rough. Then rinse it and dry it.

A pint of paint should do it easy. Get a 4" roller and just roll it on. Let it dry real good before using it. Test the paint for adhesion by trying to peel it off the plastic after it drys. If you can't peel it, you're good to go.

Use black paint. That should stop the light well. Tell the guy at the paint store you're trying to paint a plastic tub as a flower planter that will be outside in the sun. He should be able to tell you the best type of paint.

Good luck man.

[Offspring_36]

Thanks SB again! I'll see what i can find. The other choice is to do what you suggested and get some longer pipe and keep the reservoir out of the grow area. i have a feeling i may end up doing that, then you can i say " i told you so" lol thanks again

[Stoney Bud]

Thanks SB again! I'll see what i can find. The other choice is to do what you suggested and get some longer pipe and keep the reservoir out of the grow area. i have a feeling i may end up doing that, then you can i say " i told you so" lol thanks again
I would never say "I told you so"!

Your grow chamber also looked like it is clear. You'll have to paint it as well unless you move it out of the grow room to. Wait, you can't move it!

Hahahahaaha, I told you so! (I crack me up)

[KADE]

If you are going to paint plastic u'll be lookin for "Krylon Fusion". Typically used for tinting a persons vehicle lights.... it sticks like... well.. dont let me start. But it is good stuff!

[Offspring_36]

Hello again! well i decided to cover the grow tray with light proof white sheeting in the end, looks a bit scruffy but does the job i think. I may yet put a lid on the tray and cover that also, then just cut some holes for the plants. My reservoir is filled to 60L and drops to 50L when the grow tray is full. I left the system running for a couple of hours last night to check for problems. There was a couple of very minor leaks but sorted them by tightening the clips and it flooded to roughly 2" below the surface. Im still a little confused about how often to flood the tray for and for how long. I have Jorge Cervantes grow bible and in that it says if you flood for more than half an hour you could kill the roots because of a lack of Oxygen? Im a bit unsure of his hydro section as its so much smaller than the soil sections! maybe he doesnt like hydro?? Are those roots developed enough to be put in the tray yet? i think i may have stunted them a little by watering a bit too often :(. ANyway any help/guidance is welcomed!

[THE BROTHER'S GRUNT]

Sup Offspring. I'm not a hydro guy but i seen your post and tried to catch Stoney Bud this morning before work but missed him. :mad: Maybe someone else can jump in. I sent Stoney Bud a PM so i'm sure he will reply when he gets home from work. ;) By the way man everything is looking good. :aok:

[Offspring_36]

Hey TBG, thanks for the help. I was just wondering while iv got your attention , why do you prefer to grow in soil? there must be good reason:confused: Thanks

[Stoney Bud]

Hey Offspring, you shouldn't need to put a cover on the grow chamber. What purpose would it serve?

I've been using a 24/7, one hour on, two hours off watering cycle for a long, long time with great results. If it was going to harm the root system, it would have by now.

Yes, you can put that rooted cube into the system now. Very Gently.

Looks like your getting a handle on things now.

Good luck to you man.