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I was probably just taken in by the cool colors. I think all systems have there advantages. But I can end the argument here of what's better. I just got my new Undercurrent. If you don't know by now, it will blow away both DWC, top feed and Ebb styles. Look it up. I have it running right now. Its water movement is ridic. I have the Ebb running, never done top feed, but the UC is gonna grow trees and massive growth rates. Srry, rambling.

Back to the balls. There awesome. I got blue. Will follow up.
 
"In many 'solution culture' hydroponic systems, the oxygen supplied for plant root uptake is provided mostly as dissolved oxygen (DO) held in the nutrient solution. If depletion of this dissolved oxygen in the root system occurs, then growth of plants, water and mineral uptake are reduced."

If this is so...(~DO~)


Then how does this work?

PieRsquare said:
With Ebb and Flow, the entire root system is exposed to nothing but oxygen. Depending on how porous your media is, it will retain some nutrient solution in the media and withing the root system itself, but the majority of the root system is literally sitting in nothing but oxygen. This is why hydroponic scientists have repeated over and over that nothing except aeroponics can come close to the oxygen saturation of ebb and flow.
Click to expand...
 
hydroponic scientists, hydroponic scientists, hydroponic scientists, sheesh! If I read hydroponic scientists one more time I'ma sock one in the mouth when I see a hydroponic scientists.:rolleyes:
 
actually the normal dwc of lettuce or vegetables is very different than MJ form of DWC with a bubbler, the lettuce is floated on water and all the roots are submerged while MJ DWC only the lower rootball is submerged and the suspended roots are misted with fresh air 24/7, the "scientists were probably referring to the vegetable form of dwc
 
PieRsquare said:
Your quote is out of context and obviously doesn't apply to ebb and flow. It would apply to DWC and NFT systems only.
Click to expand...

Interesting... It didn't come with any warning that it wouldn't be in context...:rolleyes:

Anyway, I found this...


How Oxygen Keeps Your Plants Thriving!
Oxygen is used in large quantities by plants. If you were to analyze a dried plant you would find that about 45% consisted of Oxygen atoms. Just like humans, plants need fresh air and their cells use Oxygen in the same kind of quantities that ours do. In air conditions with a low concentration of Oxygen, or where the air is poor, plants do not thrive. Those that do manage to eke out an existence remain poor stunted specimens.
The leaves of a plant have easy access to Oxygen. They make it as a natural bi-product of the process of producing plant sugars and breathe it out as waste during the process of photosynthesis.
The roots of the plant do not have the same amount of Oxygen available to them. They have to work a lot harder to find enough for their needs. Insufficient Oxygen at the roots will reduce the plants root respiration and result in the shutting down of photosynthesis.
A plant’s growth and its yield are governed by the size and health of its root system. It can only grow to its full potential if the roots have enough Oxygen for their needs. In plants grown hydroponically this essential ingredient is supplied dissolved in the nutrient solution.
Dissolved Oxygen in the nutrient solution can be measured by a DO meter. These are available from all good hydroponics equipment suppliers.
The amount of Oxygen dissolved in the solution will vary depending on both temperature and pressure. The warmer the water the lower the gaseous content will be. Really cold fresh water has a DO reading of up to 14 ppm or 14mg/litre, while water at 30 degrees centigrade can only hold about 5ppm or 5 mg/l DO.
This DO only amounts to a very small percentage of the roots needs. All water culture systems have to utilise some other form of oxygenation for the roots as well as DO in the nutrient. Root systems that have insufficient Oxygen available will soon turn brown and become very sick.
We aerate the nutrient in our systems in order to get the best saturation that we can, (from 5ppm to 8ppm) but the main function of this aeration is to kill off the anaerobic bacteria around the roots. Anaerobic bacteria are pathogens that cannot survive in an oxygenated environment; (Anaerobic meaning without air).
Because the dissolved Oxygen in the nutrient can only supply about 1% of the roots requirements, the balance must be made up by breathing air. This air is trapped within the soil in conventional gardening and in the growing medium in normal hydroponics systems. This Oxygen search uses up energy that the plant could better use to produce root growth.
The only type of system where this does not happen is the aeroponics system. The aerated water being sprayed directly onto the roots, allows the plant to take in free Oxygen from the surrounding air, while still keeping the roots moist and supplied with nutrient.
One of the functions of Oxygen is to facilitate the exchange of nutrients and gasses between the plant roots and the surrounding solution. It does this by changing the electrical charges within the water, so allowing the roots to absorb the available nutrients with the least expenditure of energy. For this reason, if no other, the roots need all the Oxygen they can get.

Sounds like ebb and flow is indeed and oxygen paradise! Thanks for clearing it up!:D

Interesting how one can find so much conflicting information on the web.....

(by the way, I don't know one damn thing about hydroponics, I was just curious... And Chef, as for the balls... If they are very very porous ~i.e. pumice~ I would think THAT would make them hard to clean. After all, isn't that what makes hydroton hard to clean???;) )
 
PieRsquare said:
Actually, when you use a mist in a DWC application, you've then converted it to a hybrid of both aeroponic and DWC. Also, the water used in the application you're referring to is oxygenated by radical agitation and rapid exchange in the flow tanks. Your comment makes me think you haven't studied much about the subject. There is no fault in that. Keep learning and you'll discover that hydroponics goes way, way beyond what has been discussed here on this group and a few marijuana books.
Click to expand...
strange thing is that i dont see any pic of any of your grows, you're still in period of research, i've done my readings and chose ebb&flow like you and then switched dwc and saw with my own experience. it's funny how people think they know everything cuz they read a book or probably an article or maybe even fantasized about it. i mean i dunno but would the major hydroponic growers use dwc to grow tons of food if it was not optimal? you've begun to annoy me with your "superior intellect" lol i bet you never grew a plant, you came teach us what you've read, start growing dude you'll learn a lot, you still have a long way to go LOL
 
PieRsquare said:
Ebb and Flow will out-perform DWC every time because of the increased oxygenation of the roots. This is a proven fact in the hydroponic scientific community.
Click to expand...

Where did you get this information? What is your source?
 
Ahh look what I started. Throw out the word, "blueballs" and everyone can relate :)

NV, the balls are not porous. They are soft and weighted, like a plastic substance. I will follow up.
 
PieRsquare said:
Why are you being so antagonistic? I'm not here to belittle you or put you down in any way. I'm proud of what I've learned. It took decades of work to learn what I've accomplished and now you feel you have to attack me? Why is that? Do you feel threatened by me somehow?

I've also grown MJ for quite a few years. I don't post my photos because I don't feel safe doing so. It's that simple. Try opening your mind and learning instead of falling back on anger. I'm not attacking you in any way. Your attack on me is wrong and unnecessary. You say that the major growers use DWC? You're totally wrong. It's not used by ANY major growers. NFT is the most common type of hydroponics used by commercial growers.

How about if you get the chip off your shoulder and try reading a few books to learn something from? I haven't read "a book", as you so callously stated, but many hundreds of books on just one subject; hydroponics. I'm also not flaunting what you call my "superior intellect", as I don't have a superior intellect, just a work ethic that makes me work hard to learn something I want to know thoroughly. I have worked hard to learn hydroponics. Both in practice and by study.

I have a crop that is just 6 days from harvest. It's doing fine and should be about the same yield as the ones before it of the same strain. I average 1.25 pounds of cured smoke per/crop. I know a lot about growing marijuana also. What would you like me to tell you? Most of my knowledge of growing marijuana comes from doing so, not reading about it. I've also read several books on that subject.

I'm not bragging. All I did was substantiate what I've said with how I learned it. A lot of people here on this site are the "Prove it" types. I was proving it by stating where I learned what I know. No brag, no conceit, no trying to claim superior intellect and no condensation. Just telling how I learned what I know so that someone wouldn't try to challenge my knowledge.

Please stop attacking me. I'll explain what I say and substantiate it in any way you wish that won't jeopardize my identity. I don't post photos because I feel that it's not safe to do so.
Click to expand...

How many watts are you running? I got your PM. When you say "small" grow OP like mine. Do know what I run? LOL
 
Sounds like you got it down. No its not a cartel, but its 200 sq ft, 130sq for lighting. One soil, one Ebb and the new UC. I already know what Ebb can do. Not saying your wrong, but the UC dominates the Ebb. I promise you. Ppl that cash crop on other sites, dont spend 2k on a system that dont produce. Otherwise, they would run Ebb. I have same lights over each, and I already know the UC outdoes it, cause the only reason I got it was I saw it in action, it also limits plant numbers and increases grams per watt if done right.

16 site, 40" centers
7k watts
13 gal modules

You do the math :)

Threads outta whack. I luv blue balls....
 
PieRsquare said:
You say that the major growers use DWC? You're totally wrong. It's not used by ANY major growers. NFT is the most common type of hydroponics used by commercial growers.

How about if you get the chip off your shoulder and try reading a few books to learn something from? I haven't read "a book", as you so callously stated, but many hundreds of books on just one subject; hydroponics. I'm also not flaunting what you call my "superior intellect", as I don't have a superior intellect, just a work ethic that makes me work hard to learn something I want to know thoroughly. I have worked hard to learn hydroponics. Both in practice and by study.
WTMIL
Click to expand...
so these are not major commercial growers?
hXXp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wmq9SPPgUpc
hXXp://www.hydronov.com/02-HydronovInc/Hydronov_02_E.htm
LOL if this guy read and learned so much how's he get these conclusions? i'm sorry guys but IMO he's a joke, DWC is very widespread in growing commercial food, the hydronov company has done setups that are huge in china canada US mexico and japan all are DWC and smallest is 14000 hectares! i wasnt arguing with him only exchanging info until he told me that i havent read enough and that he had :rofl: so strange how he missed reding that
 
jmansweed said:
Hey - hey,

My buddy Greener Pastures is a long time aquarium enthusiast. A real good one I might add. As soon as I mentioned these to him he told me about Ehfisubstrat Pro. It's composed of smaller balls, made of primarily glass I think. It's extremely porous, naturally creating tremendous surface area - very similar to the BioBalls. Might have to try a few different types - eh?
peace.................Jman
Click to expand...

Ah ha! Hey Chef (Jeeze man, 2 chefs on this site... Very confusing..), sorry brother, this is what I was responding to when I mentioned the cleaning thing... Sorry for the confusion...:D

~NV
 
PieRsquare said:
So your argument is to name call?

I've already reported you to the Moderators.
Click to expand...
lol i thought you had me on ignore, and i havent called you names lol you just tellin all DWC growers they havent read enough and believe me some mods grow DWC. i truely think that your not truthful so im not calling you names, i actually dont believe a word you say especially when you say you read HUNDREDS of books! lol
 
I couldn't find any bio(blueballs) :D
but i came across these bio-ring things and thought i'd pick up a small pack to run an experiment or two..
made from ceramics I believe..
hXXp://www.animalworldnetwork.com/cabifiprceri.html

i'll keep posted when i get the chance to try it out. gotta wait for the veggy's to veg so i can get two clones off the same plant to run a decent side by side test.
price wise I doubt i'll be switching to bio-rings unless I get some killer results.
 
PieRsquare said:
People like you are all mouth and no action. Be quiet. You're showing your ignorance.
Click to expand...

forgive me if i'm wrong, but aren't Pies round??? :rofl:

Follow your own advice PieR²

no one likes a "know-it-all" :argue:

And why so scared to post a pic? Are 'they' out to get you?

3599290.JPG
 
PieRsquare said:
Btw, the lettuce hydro you've shown is NFT. NOT DWC. I don't care what they call it. DWC is standing water with aeration. The lettuce crops you so ignorantly showed are all NFT. The nutrient water flows through the trays and back into a holding tank which is aerated. The process is called Nutrient Flow Technique, (Not to be confused with Nutrient Film Technique). Learn your subject. It's water culture, not Deep Water Culture. Your ignorance of the subject is hanging out.
Click to expand...
let me start with saying that i never intended to pick up a fight with you or anyone, actually i consider it to be a kind of a debate, that said, lemme ask you, so if what your calling NFT and what the pro food growers call DEEP POOL floating raft technology :confused: is diferent that MJ DWC thats cuz it's floating with roots totally submerged, how could it be better than a DWC with roots partially in air? your whole statement that ebb&flow is better was based on the fact that in ebb&flow the roots are getting air and not submerged :confused2:
 
your continuous rambling of one subject as though you're an expert classifies you, at least in my book, as a "know-it-all."

you seem to really like ebb&flow. that's totally cool dude.
lots of people on this forum like DWC. that's cool too.

this thread was started to talk about these ball things as a growing medium. not argue about what hydro system is best, go start a thread in the hydroponics section if you want to argue your point further.

and i haven't attacked you... yet... :hubba: :hitchair:
i'm just a lil annoyed that I had to scroll past a bunch of off-topic posts.
sorry i didn't make myself clear previously.
 
In a comparison of the two, Ebb and Flow supplies more oxygen to the roots if the fill and drain cycles are proper
Click to expand...


Where is this comparison and who did it?
 
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