Chemical vs Organic fertilizers

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DrFever

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Whats all the fuss about organic vs Chemical nutrients ???? you here chemicals can do harm to the root system etc, what about mites ??? you can go organic ( neem) again will it fully get rid of them mites compared to chemical sprays that will probably wipe them out first shot ??? and most i must admit are environmentally friendly now.
You here the misconception of organic plant food will not burn or hurt your plants ???
You can burn your plants with any type of nutrients regardless if they're chelated or not. Feeding your plants is all about proper balance and timing. You can overdose your plants with organic fertilizers too, it's a common misconception that people have, just because it's "organic" does not mean you can feed your plants every watering at high dosage levels with no ill effects.

I'm personally a fan of the chemical fertilizers, but I prefer ones of a slightly higher quality.
chemical fertilizers are essentially exactly the same as organic fertilizers, only with a much more rapid absorption rate because you're skipping the step of decomposition within the soil. Of course, an argument can be made that the bacteria and viruses living within the soil are beneficial to over health of the root system, but this can be accomplished with hydroponic nutrients via beneficial innoculations and fulvic acids etc.
So what is the big fuss over all this ???? what about growth rates ????
compared to chemical grown like hydro vs organic soils are yields more with organic ???? i tend to think not, to me its all about rapid growth rates and as many yields per year as possible
Many organic growers tend to want to re use there soils and that is great for my self i tend to buy new every grow for the cost of soils is not that expensive to begin with and my old soils to be mixed in with outside gardens
whats your thoughts people :D
 
I am pretty sure you do not want to hear my thoughts on this.
 
quite simply my thinking is;
organic is for personal
synthetic is for selling

yeah you can do personal synthetic, many do.. but you don't see a lot of organic cash-croppers ;)

i love the growth, and ease of synthetics.. i just could never get an end product as good. (wish i never tried organic.. i had no idea till i did ;) )
both have their place though. i'm not one of those growers that scoffs at anything but what i use/do ;)
:)

*must admit myself, i'm just a step shy of synth; doing bottled organics and amendments :eek: ..haven't got 100% organic down yet.
 
I am not about the most yields per year, but I do like a decent yield for the time, money, and effort expended. I did some organic grows this last summer. Being an old hippie, I just wanted to try it The difference in growth between the chemically grown hydro plants and the organic soil plants was huge. I originally put it down to my being a newbie at organics, but my vegetables that I used the same soil on did outstanding--several people told me I had the best veggie garden in town (it is a small town however).

I also never noticed any better taste with organically grown bud as from chemically grown bud.

I will continue to experiment with organics and use it on my veggies, but it will not be my sole way of growing.
 
The Hemp Goddess said:
I am not about the most yields per year, but I do like a decent yield for the time, money, and effort expended. I did some organic grows this last summer. Being an old hippie, I just wanted to try it The difference in growth between the chemically grown hydro plants and the organic soil plants was huge. I originally put it down to my being a newbie at organics, but my vegetables that I used the same soil on did outstanding--several people told me I had the best veggie garden in town (it is a small town however).

I also never noticed any better taste with organically grown bud as from chemically grown bud.

I will continue to experiment with organics and use it on my veggies, but it will not be my sole way of growing.

Great post many people forget to mention probably 90 percent of the greens we eat are chemically enhanced being sprays and plant food,
from farmers spreading manures mid summer to late fall allowing manures to decompose yet soil tests are done in spring and chemical nutrients made as per soil samples for new year harvests
could it be many growers that lean to organic soils???? have had problems in the past with chemical nutrients and find it easier to grow in organics ????
could very well be.
I have grown organics in the past and to be honest i found way slower growth compared to chemical nute grows
i chuckle when i go to a grocery store and see organically grown products at higher price i find it a real gimmic
 
I never even considered growing any other way than organic. I quit using synthetics in my back yard about 15 years ago. I eat organic as much as I can, why would I not grow organic.

I hate neem oil and don't use it. It admit it would be easier maybe to take care of bugs but I am a small gardener and don't mind the extra work to make it clean.

Fever, I used chemicals for 20 years. no more. never. I grew roses for competition for years. Yes, they were beautiful, but at what cost to the earth and my health.
 
Chemical nutes are destroying our planet. This can be seen in the increase in algae blooms in our lakes and rivers. Making some lakes and river uninhabitable for fish and marine life. It also leaches down to our well water and aquifers thus we are drinking our own chemicals. Chemicals also destroys the soil food web and increases the compactions of our soil.

Now for the yields. Once you dial in grow with organics you will have the same yield as chemical nutes, in my experience.

The cost involved is way higher when using chemicals. Buying soil and nutes constantly. Buying chemical nutes all the time because the soil needs them to grow anything because the soil food web is destroyed... Organics one can reuse the soil, no nutes to buy because if you look around your property/area you can find what you need without buying anything. Leaves, grass clippings and the such makes great compost and if you use an AEM or can wait a long time, can be used in a liquid form. Even scraps off your table can be used to make compost, thus saving landfill space.

There is more but I feel terrible today and need to go back and lie down again.
 
pd you can put that to all nutes its industrial polution which then brings down acid rain and contaminates everything
Here is a thought ???? how organic do you think you really are from purchasing manures, and other products how organic is the manures ?????
if you really think about it for a second all nutrients are chemicals lets have a look at most common Agricultural nutrients

Urea
Urea is the most widely used solid nitrogen fertilizer and is usually applied as granules, although it is sometimes mixed with ammonium nitrate and dissolved in water to form urea ammonium nitrate solution. When applied to soil, urea reacts with water to form ammonia, which makes the nitrogen within the fertilizer available to plants. Urea fertilizers deliver one of the highest amounts of nitrogen at 46 percent, with no phosphorus or potassium.

Ammonium Nitrate
A solid fertilizer typically applied in granular form, ammonium nitrate provides substantial amounts of nitrogen to the soil. The Fertilizer Institute indicates that ammonium nitrate is particularly effective at fertilizing specialty crops such as citrus and pasture lands. Ammonium nitrate typically provides 33 percent nitrogen.


Ammonium Sulfate
A by-product derived from the waste generated by coke ovens, ammonium sulfate forms when sulfuric acid is used to remove ammonia from the coal used to make coke. Ammonium sulfate is a solid material that contains 21 percent nitrogen.

Calcium Nitrate
This fertilizer contains 16 percent nitrogen in a nitrate form. Less effective than other nitrogen fertilizers due to leaching when applied to soil, calcium nitrate is often used in fruit and vegetable crops to provide a readily available source of nitrogen and also provides soluble calcium for soils that are calcium deficient.

Diammonium Phosphate
Where soils do not have enough phosphorus, diammonium phosphate can provide significant amounts of this chemical, at around 46 percent. The ammonia component of diammonium phosphate also delivers around 18 percent nitrogen. Highly water soluble, diammonium phosphate is often applied in liquid form.

Monoammonium phosphate
Another phosphorus fertilizer, monoammonium phosphate delivers even more phosphorus than diammonium phosphate, at 48 percent. The amount of nitrogen in fertilizer provides is somewhat less at 11 percent. The lower level of the ammonia component of this chemical lessens the risk of damage when applied to new seedling growth.

Triple Super Phosphate
Available in granular form, triple super phosphate is applied directly to the soil. While largely replaced by diammonium phosphate and monoammonium phosphate due to better storage and the availability of nitrogen within the chemicals, triple super phosphate is still in use both commercially and in home applications. Triple super phosphate is often combined with nitrogen-based fertilizers to provide a better, broad-spectrum application.

Potassium Nitrate
Potassium nitrate, also called nitrate of potash, is frequently used on vegetable crops including celery, potatoes, leafy green vegetables, tomatoes and several fruit crops, according to the Michigan State University Extension. The nitrate component of this chemical fertilizer works well with these crops. Potassium nitrate provides 44 percent potassium.

Potassium Chloride
Sometimes called muriate of potash, potassium chloride is a significant source of the element potassium as a fertilizer. Directly applied to soils or combined into multiple endings of mixed fertilizers, potassium chloride is also highly soluble and can be applied in liquid fertilizers. The chemical typically provides 60 to 62 percent potassium.
 
" how organic do you think you really are from purchasing manures, and other products how organic is the manures ?????"

I think my manure is fine thank you shoveled myself from a farm I grew up on. I know what the cows were fed and watered with.
 
rose you may be lucky to be able to go out in the back yard and pick up a cow pie many are not
when your cow falls sick does not a vet administer a man made chemical into the cow in either needle or pill form ???? could that be contaminating a cow which there feces is then used in a organic garden ????

Would you eat your favorite breakfast cereal if you knew that it contained Butylated Hydroxytoluene (BHT), a product also used in jet fuel and embalming fluid? Can you imagine grilling your low fat veggie burger if you found out that its main ingredient is Monosodium Glutamate (MSG)?
Watch out, because foods that are considered “healthy” and labeled as “natural” contain many harmful chemicals used as food preservatives and flavor enhancers – and these chemicals are often disguised under unrecognizable names.
 
I quit eating bht and bha in the 70's. I have a feeling this subject is oneyou don't want to get into with me, cause I been reading labels since before you were born.

If cattle are raised right no vet ever comes to the house.
 
I thought we were discussing chem and organic fertilizers, Not acid rain :confused2:

Now you see why I posted my first response?

Dr.Fever maybe more research is warranted on your end, besides a copy and paste?

As most of what you posted are not listed as OMRI approved
 
what attracted me the most to learn how to grow organically was the idea of giving control back to the plants. creating an environment where everything the plants need is available to them, but NOT force feeding them what WE think they need.
 
lol rosebud i am 48 years old not sure how old you are my friend pd doesn't matter if its copy and paste now really does it ???? What i am getting at is
do you think organic is better, does it grow better , yield more ???
and the answer is NO it does not compete. I tend to believe organic growers are becoming bias, if i waned to be a tree hugging environmentalist i would join green peace lol all of my soil is re used i do not drain to waste or flush anything down the drain hey when you flush where do you place your liquid ???
I never came here to slam organic soils just asking what is the fuss all about it ???? i know if i had a sick looking plant it would recover quicker with chem nutes then organic
i know that growing in organic is like comparing 400 watt grow speed to a 1000 watt growth speed ,
and at the end of the day being efficient is what its all about right
 
Something i found interesting for all non chemical users when taking cuttings do you just place in water, or soil do you use clonex ???? have a read at the safety data sheet and its dangerous goods chemical classes

focus-on-plants.com/userfiles/sds-clonex.pdf[/url]
 
lol rosebud i am 48 years old not sure how old you are my friend pd doesn't matter if its copy and paste now really does it ???? What i am getting at is
do you think organic is better, does it grow better , yield more ?[/I??

Excuse me Fever, I did think you were younger, I apologize.

I don't know if organic is better or yields more. I have never grown pot non organically. I think you may get better yields going with chemicals from what I have heard. It is a philosophy, a way of life. I never considered growing any other way a long time ago. It is a philosophy that is based in facts, I believe. I doubt your interested in why I feel so strongly about this and it may be very boring, so I won't bore you.

PS.. I can't go in my back yard for cow pies anymore"


i have to drive two hours for good organic cow ****.

PSS
"i know that growing in organic is like comparing 400 watt grow speed to a 1000 watt growth speed" Fever

Does that bpotm look like a 400 watt grow? Peace
 
DrFever said:
pd doesn't matter if its copy and paste now really does it ????

It does if you do not comprehend what you are copying and pasting.

DrFever said:
does it grow better , yield more ???
and the answer is NO it does not compete.

See and read my previous post and if you cannot get the same yields I would say you did not have your organic grow dialed in.

DrFever said:
at the end of the day being efficient is what its all about right

Wrong, imo. At the end of the day it is all about not killing our planet.imo

hey when you flush where do you place your liquid ???

I do not flush my plants and even if I did it would still be organic. When dumping chemical nutes or dirt it loses its CEC and any liquid just leaches through the soil to the ground water/well water/lakes and rivers.

Dr.Fever said:
I tend to believe organic growers are becoming bias,

I think you were pretty bias even before you posted this thread.

DrFever said:
i know that growing in organic is like comparing 400 watt grow speed to a 1000 watt growth speed

:confused2: The wattage of the light does not matter, what matters is the amount of lumens per square feet in their grows The only time I have seen a difference in my grows is in hydroponics(DWC) where the vegetative growth rate is faster. Once you have your organic grow dialed in, I have not seen a difference.

For clones I cut them at a 45 degree angle and place it in my soil. I do not use clonex.

A person does not have to be a grower or a tree hugging environmentalist to see the damage that chemical nutes cause. Just ask any fishermen or a person that swims in our rivers and lakes. They can see with their own eyes the algae blooms and the dead spots where fish will not live due to chemical nutes.
 
A person does not have to be a grower or a tree hugging environmentalist to see the damage that chemical nutes cause. Just ask any fishermen or a person that swims in our rivers and lakes. They can see with their own eyes the algae blooms and the dead spots where fish will not live due to chemical nutes.
you mention this like its all caused by growing in chemicals but neglect the fact most pollution is from burning of fossil fuels just curious how many rides do you have in your driveway , toys ??? just google how many tons of Nuclear waste is in your state ( back yard )
lets have a look at pollution land
love canal
green point oil spill
murphy oil spill
prudhoe bay oil spill

you mention ask any fisherman ok lets look at ocean pollution

2007 sanfrancisco oil spill
new orleans oil spill
exxon valdez oil spill
Dam hey list goes on i can guarntee you that most indoor grows yes were a small percentage compared to the world really doing nothing compared to other devastating issues lets not forget japan earth quake that rocked there nuke facility
and most importantly superfund sites which are scattered in every corner of usa

dumped 226 million pounds of toxic chemicals in to U.S. waterways in 2010, according to a new report by Environment America. The group analyzed government data on industrial facilities to reveal total discharges by state and which U.S. rivers bear the heaviest toxic chemical burden.

Food and beverage manufacturing, which includes slaughterhouses and rendering plants, heavy metals manufacturing, chemical plants, and petroleum refineries were among the largest polluters. The biggest single polluter, according self-reported data to EPA’s Toxic Release Inventory, was AK Steel with nearly 30 million pounds of toxins into waterways in Indiana and Ohio.
 
DrFever.. what does oil spills have to do with chemical or organic fertilizers?:confused2:
 

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