Satori Comparison Grow - Organic vs. Soilless/Synthetic

I've recently grown, cloned, and sexed some Satori plants. I have two females in 3rd week of flowering, and I took 3 clones from one of them. The clones are healthy and are 18 days old.

I've never grown Satori before.

I’m a long-time organic grower who’s wanting to try full-blown hydroponics, and my first step in that direction will be a soilless grow with synthetic nutes. However, I still have some good organic Super Soil left, so I’ve decided to do a comparison grow just for fun. Organic vs. soilless/synthetic, with 3 clones from the same mother, under the same lights, and under the same conditions. The only difference will be grow medium and nutes.

I expect the soilless/synthetic grow to win in terms of yield, but I’m interested in seeing yield differences and comparing taste.

The organic Super Soil I’ve always mixed is pretty potent. My grows go from seed/clone to harvest using nothing but un-ph’ed tap water. No additional nutes or additives of any kind. I’ll give the recipe in a later post, as it’s too long for this introductory post. I will grow two of the clones in this Super Soil.

The other clone will be grown in ProMix HP and Advanced Nutrients (AN). I’ve been wanting to try AN for a while now, if for no other reason than to mark them off my checklist. I bought the smallest bottles possible in case I don’t like them. I’ll list the exact AN products I bought in a subsequent post.

I will post the details of my grow thus far, and grow room specs, later today.

Here are pics of the mother, the clones in rockwool, and the 18-day-old clones just after planting last night:

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Grow Details Thus Far:

I ordered my Satori seeds a while back, and planted 4 seeds, hoping for 2 females. They were all raised in organic soil. I damaged one of the seedlings due to careless handling, so I planted another seed.

By the time these 4 plants were about 8 inches tall, one began stretching very badly, so I culled it. When the 3 remaining plants showed pre-sex, I took 3 clones from each and put the parent plants in the flowering room.

All 3 parent plants turned out to be female, but the clones from one looked "better" than clones from the others, so I ended up keeping 3 clones from the same mother.

I cloned using 1.5" rockwool cubes, un-ph'ed distilled water, Take Root powdered rooting hormone, and Clonex mist.

I planted them in their respective grow mediums last night at 18 days old.

One was planted in pure, uncut ProMix HP. I will feed it Advanced Nutrients. And I will post the exact products used in a later post. I watered them last night with a weak grow solution.

The other two clones were planted in pure, uncut Roots Organic soil. They will get transplanted into Super Soil somewhere along the way when they are mature enough.

Grow Room Details:

The plants will veg in a 32"x32" tent under T5 lighting.

My flower room is a 3.5' x 3.5' x 8' closet painted flat-white, with a 600-watt Hortilux Super HPS, powered by a Lumatek digital ballast. I will use one of my large Sunlight hoods.

My Super Soil Recipe:

• 2 large bags Roots Organic soil
• 20 lbs EB Earth Worm Castings
• 16 red cups (about 1kg) organic rice hulls
• 420g fish bone meal (Down to Earth 3-16-0)
• 420g bat guano (Happy Frog 0-5-0)
• 420g blood meal (Down to Earth 12-0-0)
• 100g neem seed meal (Down to Earth)
• 80g potassium sulfate (0-0-50)
  
• 200g Ancient Forest Alaska Humus (General Organics)
• 200g xtreme mycorrhizal granules
• 200g azomite
  
• 100g sea kelp (Algamin 1-0-2)
• 70g dolomite lime (30% cal 3% mg or 75/12)
• 50g alfalfa meal (Down to Earth 2.5-1-1)
  
• 20g humic acid powder (Down to Earth)
• 8g Epsom salt

I cook it for at least 45 days before using it.

I use pure Roots Organic soil until my plants are ready for their second transplant, at which time I use 50% Roots Organic and 50% Super Soil. On their 3rd and final transplant, I use 100% Super Soil.

As mentioned in an earlier post, this recipe takes my grows all the way through harvest using only un-ph'ed tap water; no additional nutes or additives of any kind.

However, the plants also stay green until harvest, which may mean the soil has too much nitrogen. I've read that green leaves thru harvest can be a sign of heavy nitrogen, which stimulates green leaf production/maintenance. And this can (supposedly) interfere with flowering efficiency. I don't know for sure.

Advanced Nutrients Products I'll be Using:

• Connoisseur PH Perfect Grow A & B
• Connoisseur PH Perfect Bloom A & B
• Hobbyist Bundle (VooDoo Juice, Big Bud, B-52, Overdrive)
• Final Phase

I bought the smallest bottles of each in case I don't like AN.

I hate ph'ing. The happiest day of my grow life was the day I threw my ph meter and ph-up-down in the trash can.

Everyone feel free to post, comment, ask questions, etc.

ill be watchen my friend. Green Mojo

Pulling up a chair :stoned:

This is my first time using rockwool to clone. I had 6 of 9 clones take root within 2 weeks. Not as successful as I had hoped, even though I had planned to keep only 3 of them to grow out anyway. I may have over-watered since it was hard for me to know when the rockwool needed more water.

I've used only Rapid Rooters for cloning in the past, with 80-85% success rate. I like Rapid Rooters better. Except they don't stand up on their own like rockwool cubes do.

Sounds like an awesome experiment. Looking forward to watching!

I realize that discussions of Advanced Nutrients (AN) sometimes escalate to flame wars. I've probably read every pro and con internet post regarding AN. But I'm just the kinda person that's gotta find out for himself.

I have a good baseline of repeated good-yield (for soil) grows to compare against AN.

I've not used a ph meter much in many years of organic growing. So when switching to hydro, I wanted to try AN first since they claim their nutes are "ph perfect".

I'll finally see for myself.

interesting, I am waiting to se the results from this run especially that you are experienced in organics. It would be nice to later try and compare the soilless system with something like DWC or ebb and flow which may further boost the results imo. I am all into hydroponics, I see a nice future for hydro organic, it is already out there in commercial systems like this http://www.gogreenagriculture.com/About/ he got awards and claims to be the first of its kind commercial organic certified high density hydro farm.

I forgot to mention that I'll be using tan Smart Pots in which to grow the clones. I have several each of the 5-gallon and 7-gallon sizes. I haven't decided which size I'll use yet. Probably the 7-gallon size.

I'm a big believer in the heat-reduction and air-pruning qualities of the fabric pots, and the tan color reduces heat even further. Just MHO.

My hydro always blows my soil grows away, but I am still somewhat a newbie with organics, which I consider a lot tougher than hydro.

What kind of hydro are you running? I also hate to pH, so tried the PH Perfect line. My plants hated it though--they reacted adversely the first time I used it. I have virtually full bottles and may give them another try, but then maybe not. Hope you have better luck. I am using their Jungle Juice 3 part now. It is the same formula as GH Flora series.

As a side note, rapid rooters will stand up if you turn them upside down. However, they dry out so fast that it is very hard to use them without the cell tray. I always end up cutting the cell trays into smaller chunks.

Looking forward to following your grow. I have 5 Satori seedlings now and may go with hydro for some and organic with others. They are seeds though, so not a good test, like yours will be.

The Hemp Goddess said:

My hydro always blows my soil grows away, but I am still somewhat a newbie with organics, which I consider a lot tougher than hydro.

What kind of hydro are you running? I also hate to pH, so tried the PH Perfect line. My plants hated it though--they reacted adversely the first time I used it. I have virtually full bottles and may give them another try, but then maybe not. Hope you have better luck. I am using their Jungle Juice 3 part now. It is the same formula as GH Flora series.

As a side note, rapid rooters will stand up if you turn them upside down. However, they dry out so fast that it is very hard to use them without the cell tray. I always end up cutting the cell trays into smaller chunks.

Looking forward to following your grow. I have 5 Satori seedlings now and may go with hydro for some and organic with others. They are seeds though, so not a good test, like yours will be.

Click to expand...

After I get done with 2 or 3 soilless/synthetic grows and decide on an exact nute lineup, I'm going to transition to either DWC or Flood & Drain. F&D sounds easier, but the consensus seems to be that DWC is more productive.

Thanks for the tip on Rapid Rooters.

Organics will treat you well. I just wanted to try something new with hydro. If I ever mix my own soil again I'll have to buy one of those home cement mixers from Harbor Freight. Manually mixing my soil in a compost tumbler was hard on my shoulders and neck. But using only water the entire grow sure was nice.

Day 22 Update:

Well, the unexpected has happened. The clones in pure Roots Organic soil (the rightmost two) show new growth, while the clone in ProMixHP-AN has shown no growth in two days.

Organics 1, ProMixHP-AN 0.

http://marijuanapassion.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=228897&stc=1&d=1438732605

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What is in the Pro-Mix HP? If it is totally inert (and I suspect that it is) I think the baby may be ready for food. The Roots Organic has things in it that will feed the plant. A straight soilless mixture will not, so the plant needs to be fed sooner. I am thinking that may contribute to the soil plants showing new growth and the soilless no new growth.

:yeahthat:

The Hemp Goddess said:

What is in the Pro-Mix HP? If it is totally inert (and I suspect that it is) I think the baby may be ready for food. The Roots Organic has things in it that will feed the plant. A straight soilless mixture will not, so the plant needs to be fed sooner. I am thinking that may contribute to the soil plants showing new growth and the soilless no new growth.

Click to expand...

Yes, ProMix HP is inert.

I've fed the plant twice now with AN nutes. The first feeding was half their recommended dosage for clones, and the second feeding was at their recommended dosage for clones.

The plant is very healthy, but is just lagging behind the others a bit in growth. Maybe it's ready for veg-strength nutes now at 23 days old? I guess it should be.

Day 24 Update:

Last night, just after I typed the above post, I went to AN's web site and looked for grow support commentary. What I found was a phone number to call for support. So I called. And got an answer within 2 rings.

A man answered, and talked with me at length about my situation and their recommended feeding. And I also asked for an email for reference, and he was kind enough to send that as well. Here's what he said:

Don't start feeding the Connoisseur formulas until the clones develop roots and two new sets of new leaves above the old growth, before that time give them B-52 at 2 mL/liter and a low dose of Voodoo Juice 2 mL/gallon, it will help speed up rooting and new vegetative growth, once they get the second set of new leaves give them Connoisseur stating at 1/4 strength (1 mL/liter) and increase gradually until you are feeding at full strength (4 mL/liter )at week 4, and apply both the B-52 and Voodoo Juice at 2 mL/liter

They advocate slowly increasing nute strength so as to allow the plant to say when it's at good nute levels.

But since I had already been feeding at 1 milliliter per liter, I increased it to 2 milliliters per liter tonight.

I don't have the B-52 or VooDoo Juice yet, but I have them ordered.

Here's a pic taken tonight. The ProMixHP-AN plant is on the left. The organic plants are on the right. Keep in mind that these are clones from the same good mother, and that they all started at about the same size.

http://marijuanapassion.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=228964&stc=1&d=1438909818

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