Bummed: more bad seed from Attitude - bad Kaliman!

I am so bummed out. Planned for a "Great American Cheese Off" using Kaliman Cheese, Kaliman Rockstar, and HFS Cheese. Ordered the beans (and some Paradise Seeds Twilight) from Attitude.

Once again, maybe the 4th or 5th time from Attitude, the seeds are simply bad. The Kaliman Cheese #1 germed only 2 seeds out of 10 (a few others popped but never grew). The Rockstar Cheese germinated only 2 out of 10. The HFS Cheese germed much better at 6 out of 10 seed (its always been very reliable for me, but more than that). The PS Twilight germed 9 out of 10 seeds - and now all but 3 have simply stopped growing and died. Its like the seed is VERY old and inviable; or something is going wrong with their transport/shipping methods.

The odds are with you that you will get failures, its mother nature after all. I can live with maybe 1 the occasional packet of 3-4 packets being flakey - but this is getting downright silly and extremely expensive.

If I used Attitude orders as the guide I would not try Kaliman seed again. However I KNOW that Rockstar and Kaliman Seeds are reputable folks you can trust; but now wonder where else I can buy their seed other than Attitude.

If you try to return the seed you get caught up in Attitude's Catch-22: they are selling "souvenirs only - not for germination". On the one hand they stand behind their product - on the other hand if you germ and fail its not their fault because they are not for growing! I have contacted then 2 times about returning OBVIOUSLY BAD SEED and although they seem to be open to it - you get cursury cold-shoulder responses which don't do much of anything to assure you of a replacement packet. And what's the point - they send a dead packet, you have to pack it up, pay to send it back, and MAYBE get a packet; of other bad seed?

Grrr... This is like the 4th or 5th time I have spent upwards of $75-$125 for a packet of almost total failure seed.

Why don't breeders put "use by" or "packaged on" dates on their darn packets!??!?!?! How are we to know that people like Attitude are not shipping 1-2 yr old seed? Do they ever test them themselves? Not that I have ever heard of... If you are a breeder selling through Attitude I'd have to recommend you place a couple of covert orders to see and verify that Attitude is shipping what you sold them at wholesale.

Anyone else getting dead packets from Atttitude? Am I alone in this one?

I have not had any problems with Attitude seeds, regardless the breeder. I don't think this can be Attitude's fault. I do not believe that they are selling "bad" seeds. I also believe that suggesting that they are committing fraud is a little out of line. Seeds are viable for several years or more, however, Attitude sells so much that I believe that they probably have a quicker turn around of inventory and fresher stock than a lot of other seed banks.

Well, I did not suggest they were committing fraud. Myself, I do not agree that 'seeds are viable for several years or more' and believe they are consistently and reliably viable for about 1 year. Past that I have always experienced the same failure symptoms - germinate enough to break the shell and then stop growing, or they grow a couple of inches then die. Those two things are the #1 symptoms of old seed to me, based on my experience germinating seed for maybe 25 years now.

If the context of 'fresh because of high turnover' was truly the case it simply would not match with my own personal experience. The highest failure rate of packets I have received from them have been new, freshly announced seed (i.e. Tangerine Dream, which others reported germ failures with). However their 1-off freebie seeds seem to perform reliably although have brought in hermies.

Rather than saying "they are a fraud" I would instead suggest that they have storage and/or quality control issues which I have now personally experienced many times; enough times to illustrate a problem I am convinced that I am not alone in, regardless your own personal dislike for anything I post to the forum here.

Ten YEAR OLD SEEDS <----
proper storage is certainly a factor in 'long term' "IMO", but I absolutely disagree with the idea that seeds are only viable for a year.
I recieved kali's cheese seeds "about" a year go, in the breeders pack. My plans were to germinate them soon, so I just dropped them in a desk drawer, no precautions taken at all. But other things got in the way and I never touched them until this Feb. 10 for 10 germinated and grew without any issue, 8 females.
I don't claim to know "what" the problem is w/ yours ssc, but I'm ....hesitant to believe it is the age of these seeds. They've only been on the market for a year. :confused2:

Old_SSSC_Guy said:

.... If you are a breeder selling through Attitude I'd have to recommend you place a couple of covert orders to see and verify that Attitude is shipping what you sold them at wholesale.

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This indicates that you believe that Attitude is substituting seeds and not selling what the breeders are shipping them....that constitutes fraud. I believe that is a very unfounded accusation.

I also do not believe that seeds are only viable for a year. But regardless, I have a hard time believing that they had Kaliman's Cheese around for over a year, as Hick mentioned he is a fairly new breeder.

That is what I said above of Hicky Won Kanobee... The failed seed has often been 'new' strains. Like I mentioned above, one example is the Barney's Tangerine Dream, others would be the Kaliman strains.

Doing verifications is common for wholesalers in many businesses and it has nothing to do with accusing anyone of fraud. Even McDonalds sends around covert sample testers to verify their product is being distributed correctly, and companies such as Samsung, Sony, etc also commonly purchase their own product to verify the fulfillment side of things - and it has nothing to do with accusations of fraud.

Some mistakes are not made intentionally.

Hick said:

Ten YEAR OLD SEEDS <----
proper storage is certainly a factor in 'long term' "IMO", but I absolutely disagree with the idea that seeds are only viable for a year.
I recieved kali's cheese seeds "about" a year go, in the breeders pack. My plans were to germinate them soon, so I just dropped them in a desk drawer, no precautions taken at all. But other things got in the way and I never touched them until this Feb. 10 for 10 germinated and grew without any issue, 8 females.
I don't claim to know "what" the problem is w/ yours ssc, but I'm ....hesitant to believe it is the age of these seeds. They've only been on the market for a year. :confused2:

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unless you live in europe...why would you order from them?...so many reputable seed banks here....IMO.....

greenjoe said:

unless you live in europe...why would you order from them?...so many reputable seed banks here....IMO.....

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Who? Where? I have not found anyone in the US....

Where the seeds in the Org Breeder pack? If so I think you just lucked out and got 2 packs of bad seeds.

Kaliman and Rockstar have nothing but respect from everywhere I see them, and are both known for standing behind their seeds. Contact either of them and they'll take care of your problem.

With the money Attitudes is making I dont see them taking the time to switch out seeds just for a few $$.

The Hemp Goddess said:

Who? Where? I have not found anyone in the US....

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I never said the us...

hey i believe to each his/her own....i was just asking a question...as in if your order gets stopped at customs why would you do it again...thats all (but the same would apply to you no matter where u order from).....i had no idea you lived in the us....or if i were to order from europe i would order from one that has shipping done from europe and canada.....and there are some that do that........as a matter of fact i just did that...beanboyzgenetics.com....IMO
i just have to wait and see how it goes with them and their product..
peace

I'm USUALLY planting beans that are two yrs old and some that are four-five years old and consistently have them germ for me. All but my first order was from Attitude...:cool2:

I'm fairly confident I could germ 10 yr old beans too, course treated with kitten gloves, but nonetheless...

greenjoe said:

I never said the us...

hey i believe to each his/her own....i was just asking a question...as in if your order gets stopped at customs why would you do it again...thats all (but the same would apply to you no matter where u order from).....i had no idea you lived in the us....or if i were to order from europe i would order from one that has shipping done from europe and canada.....and there are some that do that........as a matter of fact i just did that...beanboyzgenetics.com....IMO
i just have to wait and see how it goes with them and their product..
peace

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That is why I asked where "here" was. I have not found anything in the US. I order from Canada occassionally, but most of my seeds come from Europe because that is where they have what I am looking for.

I germed some Aurora Indicas from Nirvana for my debut organic grow. They were at least 3 years old but popped just fine.

My product from Barney Farms via Attitude is less than great this year. 2 out of 5 seeds were tiny and did not pop. Free WW seed very tiny and did not germinate also. Been doing this for a long time and all other seeds doing nicely but this really upsets me. Hard earned money for seeds they knew were questionable at best!!

Careful Colorado... Speaking anything close to ill about Attitude on this board is frowned upon. Apparently only praise of them is permitted here. Even when some seed from Attitude has a consistently high failure rate you are supposed to stay quiet and feel privledged.

:lama:

Thats where you barking up the wrong tree ppl, Attitude is just the Wally World of the seed seller THEY DONT MAKE SEEDS just sell what they recieve from the "Breeders". Now aday most of the "breeder" dont make their own seeds. They are paying ppl in Spain and other places. I pretty sure Nirvane is one of the ones that has other to make their seeds now.

IMO going with the smaller "breeders/pollen chuckers" is where you will find the better genetics and true to what the maker claims strains.

Old_SSSC_Guy said:

Careful Colorado... Speaking anything close to ill about Attitude on this board is frowned upon. Apparently only praise of them is permitted here. Even when some seed from Attitude has a consistently high failure rate you are supposed to stay quiet and feel privledged.

:lama:

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Oh please.....

First you say Attitude sells old seeds, then backtrack.

ozzydiodude said:

Thats where you barking up the wrong tree ppl, Attitude is just the Wally World of the seed seller THEY DONT MAKE SEEDS just sell what they recieve from the "Breeders". Now aday most of the "breeder" dont make their own seeds. They are paying ppl in Spain and other places. I pretty sure Nirvane is one of the ones that has other to make their seeds now.

IMO going with the smaller "breeders/pollen chuckers" is where you will find the better genetics and true to what the maker claims strains.

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Absolutely!

Do you suppose ANY breeder would use a wholesale distributor that'd make their product look bad? Attitude has a track record of good product, good CS.

How would "I" know about their CS?? Well, I too had a few seed I was less than pleased with (GHS) and sent off a letter to Attitude asking about the breeder. New seeds sent without question! Now, I come to realize this wasn't ATTITUDE'S problem, they're merely moving a product for someone else, but they still went above and beyond.

If you try to return the seed you get caught up in Attitude's Catch-22: they are selling "souvenirs only - not for germination". On the one hand they stand behind their product - on the other hand if you germ and fail its not their fault because they are not for growing! I have contacted then 2 times about returning OBVIOUSLY BAD SEED and although they seem to be open to it - you get cursury cold-shoulder responses which don't do much of anything to assure you of a replacement packet. And what's the point - they send a dead packet, you have to pack it up, pay to send it back, and MAYBE get a packet; of other bad seed?

Have you ever tried just returning saying the product wasn't meeting up to your satisfaction? No grow talk, no germination questions, nothing but these aren't what I had hoped? You cannot talk growing or it's risking their business and likely getting you that cold shoulder feel!

Like I be sayin at another fireside and be findin this here one mighty warm maybe bit to warm at times. Ifin I may say it gain here I have seeds handed down and handed down and handed down gain from friends and family and no word of lie the be over 50 yer old and to this day can still gettem to germinate. I think ifin a pilgrem be smart, yual find the breed yual like and does what yu need it to and then make yur own seed and not rely on these here seed banks that can sell yual crap and be takin yur hard earned money. I have found my likes in my seeds and makes me own as I need too and it aint to costin me nothin but me time and some energy

BWD

Huh? Come on Roddy. Is no complaint tolerated here at all!? I said "Its like the seed is VERY old and inviable; or something is going wrong with their transport/shipping methods." Sorry to have stated an opinion. I said "ITS LIKE" and I did not day "IT IS ALL OLD". I did not accuse them of fraud. I did not say that they are ripping people off. I complained that a consistent amount of seed I have gotten from them has proven to be worthless - and guessed a couple of reasons it could happen. Wow - how sacrilegious of me I guess. I did NOT tell anyone to not order from Attitude. I did NOT say they were fraudulent.

The Kaliman seed I got from them was almost worthless. Same with Tangerine Dream. Same with some others. I guess that when it happens people are supposed to stay quiet and not say a word? No one should suggest ANY reasons for the failures or expect be insulted in return?

Sorry if it offends some people here that I have gotten bad seed from Attitude. I've gone through more than 50+ packets from them - but I should say nothing at all about - nor guess any reason for - the consistent failures!?!?!? Whether you agree or not - I have gotten bad seed from them - and from Hemp Depot. It DOES happen, whether you accept it or not, and whether it offends you or not.

Geez - some folks on this board sure do selectively **** on you for having an opinion, or if you don't post in some made-up baby talk language that shows how "cool" you are. Really grown to feel cliquish as heck.

Roddy said:

Oh please.....

First you say Attitude sells old seeds, then backtrack.

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