Molasses and Corn Syrup

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noodles

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:cool: Ive been told and read that molasses can be used to sweeten and fatten up your buds. So I am wondering if someone could use corn syrup instead cause thats all I have and dont want to buy anything else.:confused: They both look the same and are made of similar things. Do you think I could use that?

Later:cool:
 
Yes, go for it.
I'm a big believer in blackstrap molasses but the next time I go to the store I'm buying the best corn syrup and switching. I grow the same strain each time and only make one change so I'll know how some product works for me. Well, the addition of molasses to my soil grows increased my yield BY 20%, big fatassed buds! The only thing that did better was when I went from a 400W HPS to a 1000W HPS. The taste and smell of my buds was improved VASTLY by the molasses. I used 1/2 teaspoon per gallon of water thru veg and 1 teaspoon thru buding and 1/2 teaspoon in the last week flush.
This works as well as using the AN products Carbo load and Sweetleaf. IMO
Caution Hydo growers this stuff will gum up your system and coat your roots.
I just found an old post somewhere about how corn syrup is a better product because it will stress the roots less in soil grows. I'll post the thread if I can find it again.
 
I mixed some corn syrup with my next gallon of water and added some to my plants. 2 of them only have 2 weeks left. Do you think that is enough time to sweeten my buds?:D
 
I'm on my first indoor grow and my plants are going into the 8th week in flower. I have been using blackstrap moasses since the 2nd week of flower and the buds are huge, tight, and nearly dripping with resin. I can't say that the molasses did it, but it certainly didn't hurt. BTW, I am using a hydro bubbler system and haven't had any problems with it causing problems in my res. I know one thing -- I am going to use molasses again on the next grow. Corn syrup may work just fine, but then again it may not. It's not even a couple of bucks for a small bottle. Lots of people swear by molasses, but I don't hear all kinds of compliments for corn syrup. Why not go with something tried and true? Then again, if you have a grow to experiment with, go for it and let us know what you experience with it.
 
Dada said:
Lots of people swear by molasses, but I don't hear all kinds of compliments for corn syrup. Why not go with something tried and true?

Did you even read the thread I linked? The reason you don't hear about the corn syrup is because they stick in in these other products and charge you fifty times the price. So people rave about corn syrup under a different name.
 
Yes, I did, Alaskabud -- and that kind of proves my point. There is *one* guy talking about why you should use corn syrup instead of blackstrap molasses and he doesn't even appear to actually have experience growing with it -- just kind of a theoretical statement. He discusses potential problems with molasses and the root system, but I just haven't seen many negative posts about that. Most of what I see mirrors your positive experience with blackstrap molasses (with only one exception that I can recall, below). Meanwhile, there are probably posts from 50 different people on this forum alone who have used blackstrap molasses with positive results. I did see one post a while back from a hydro person who showed sludgy roots after adding molasses, but it looked like he poured it in directly from the bottle instead of diluting it first. I mean, it was the day after he added it to the res and the roots looked like they had molasses dripping off of them. Many others swear by it. (BTW, I read -- like four times -- the entire thread by 3littlebirds on molasses before I finally decided to use it in my hydro grow.)

I'm sure that some of the commercial additives contain (or *are*) corn syrup, but what folks have remarked on in this forum is the way several of the additives smell exactly like molasses when they open the bottle. Folks are also very specific in that it *has* to be blackstrap molasses and not just normal molasses. I assume, then, that blackstrap molasses has something that other molasses and presumably corn syrup does not have. 3littlebirds actually discusses that in one of the earlier segments of that post.

Ultimately, it comes down to what you want to do. If you want to experiment and you have the time and resources to do so -- cool -- that's how we learn. Someone's gotta do it. I doubt that corn syrup would damage anything and probably helps a lot. However, if you are like me and you are just doing tons of research to find how to grow the biggest, dankest, stickyest, sickest buds, then you tend to stick with the tried and true... I have paid attention to virtually everything folks have written on this forum and now I am a week away -- maybe a week-and-a-half -- from chop and couldn't be happier. Each of my WW plants have two buds that are more than 16" long and bigger around than a Coke can along with numerous other smaller buds (only 8" or 10" long) on other stems. They are so coated with resin that they look like they are wet. Is all of this because of the molasses? I don't know. I just tried to research this forum and learn what had worked for multiple people on multiple grows and I kinda went with that. When I start seeing numerous posts about the superiority of corn syrup over blackstrap molasses, I'll switch!
 
I've watched the discussion of using molasses to aid in growing with lots of interest.

However, using raw molasses IS NOT the best method in which to arrive at the desired end of plant enhancement.

The below information is collected from a site that discusses using molasses as the primary ingredient in the fermentation of EM, (Effective microorganisms).

If you use molasses in it's raw form, you're in the s-l-o-w lane. You're requiring it to ferment while in your plant medium. This is not an efficient manner to use it.

Check out this information and if you're interested, the additive EM is available from many sources including the one that I quoted.

Basically, the purchased EM is added to warm water and molasses. It's kept at 85-95 degrees F. for 4 days or until the pH drops below 4.0

It's then added in a ratios of anywhere from 1:1,000 to 1:10,000 to either dirt or hydroponic solution to accomplish the great things it does. Please read the entire page that this comes from before using it for specific applications. The ratio for your use may differ from that of another user.

Here's the information:

*****

History of EM
Throughout the 1970s and 80s Dr. Higa pioneered the research that led to the development and commercialization of EM technology. This natural and organic biotechnology has since been successfully commercialized throughout world markets in human health, agriculture, livestock and industrial waste treatment. Thousands of research and efficacy studies have been conducted and documented in projects, conferences and books around the world.

Originally, EM was developed for use in agriculture (crop farming) as an alternative to agricultural chemicals such as pesticides and fertilizers. EM however is not a conventional fertilizer and unlike the purpose of fertilizers, the purpose of EM is to increase the number of beneficial microorganisms in the soil. This improves the soil's microbial health and promotes a healthy environment for plants. It can also be used as a processing tool to manufacture organic fertilizers.

Effective microorganisms, often abbreviated as "EM", is a generic and descriptive phrase and acronym to describe the theories, technology and applications of beneficial microorganisms, such as phototrophic bacteria, yeast, lactic acid bacteria and actinomycetes.

This technology is all natural, utilizing beneficial and effective microbes to repopulate environments with healthy microorganisms. It is a natural and organic technology that has been found to be useful in numerous ways to benefit mankind.

When applied in agriculture, EM increases the microbial diversity of soil, thus, enhancing growth, yield, quality, and disease-resistance of crops. EM cultures do not contain any genetically modified microorganisms. EM is made of mixed cultures of microbial species that occur naturally in environments worldwide but which have decreased in many soils due to over-farming, and chemical fertilizer and pesticide use. The principal microorganisms in EM are:

A. Photosynthetic Bacteria
The photosynthetic or phototropic bacteria are a group of independent, self supporting microbes. These bacteria synthesize useful substances from secretions of roots, organic matter and/or harmful gases (eg. hydrogen sulphide), by using sunlight and the heat of soil as sources of energy. Useful substances developed by these microbes include amino acids, nucleic acids, bioactive substances and sugars, all of which promote plant growth and development. The metabolites developed by these microorganisms are absorbed directly into plants and act as substrates for increasing beneficial populations.

Seed Treatment:
Gardeners may want to try soaking seeds in a solution of EM before planting to increase seed viability. Dilute EM with water at 1:1000. Soak seeds in solution for 5-10 minutes and no longer. Air dry and plant as usual. Experiment with small batches before treating larger quantities. Weak seeds and soil conditions may lead to decreased results.

Nursery / Container-grown Plants:
Inoculate with EM at seeding and transplant stages, then on a monthly basis thereafter. Use the standard dilution of 1:1000. Orchid growers have achieved good results by inoculating with EM immediately after planting in sterile media.

Hydroponics:
In hydroponic crop production systems, EM can be diluted with the nutrient solution at a rate of 1:10,000. This practice will coat the root systems with beneficial microorganisms and make nutrient uptake more efficient.

Grain Crops, Vegetables, Fruits & Herbs:
Spray the standard dilution of 1:1000 onto the plants. If introducing EM into an irrigation system, the dilution should be increased to 1:10,000. Apply as a pre-planting treatment, again at planting/transplanting and every three to four weeks during crop growth. Apply also to crop residues after harvest, just before incorporating residues into the soil. Use 1 gallon of activated EM per acre, diluted with the appropriate amount of water for each application.

Activating EM (AEM)
There are probably many places where you can buy EM. The place this information was harvested from is:
http://www.scdworld.com/shop/product.cfm?product_id=040111

This product, combined with the fermentation of a molasses based solution results in the Activated EM that is very good for plants.

The primary reason to activate EM is economy, not efficacy. It is perfectly acceptable to use EM without activating it. However, adding a sugar source and culturing the microorganisms ensures that the microbes are active. Once the following procedure has been followed, the end result will be a full strength culture of EM that can then be diluted and applied. Materials: airtight plastic container, or large tank, 1 part EM, 1 part blackstrap molasses, 22 parts water. 3/4 cup EM, 3/4 cup molasses in 1 gallon of water.

Procedure: Dissolve molasses in warm water and add EM. Activating EM is a mostly anaerobic process, thus the presence of excessive oxygen is not desirable. Keep the extension as warm as possible. If you keep the EM between 85-95 degrees it should activate in approximately 4 days. If the extension is kept between 70-80 degrees then allow for 5-7 days.

Depending on technique and extension conditions, it may take anywhere from 4-14 days. Check the pH to ascertain when the process is complete; EM is ready when the pH drops to 3.7 or below. Do not use EM that has not dropped below 4.0. If your pH continues to drop to 3.0 or even 2.0 this is normal and indicates high microbial activity. The end product should smell slightly sweet and pickled. Activated EM, unlike EM, is best used within 7 days. It may last up to 1 month but should be used within this time. Do not extend an EM extension - the results cannot be guaranteed.
 
Thanks, Stoney -- just a couple of questions. I had read about EM before, but not enough people were talking about using this formula in the forum, so I did not do it. (I had, of course, read threads about promoting a good microbial culture, especially in hydro.) My sense is that the focus of the EM recipe is not particularly on molasses, but on EM. Molasses is just the activating agent to make the microbes come to life and have something to feed off. Kinda like using a few pinches of sugar to proof yeast before you make bread... The yeast (or the EM) would work without the sugar or molasses, but it would take longer for the bread to rise or the microbes to come to life so they could do their thing.

What I have gathered from the folks at this forum is that they use molasses not particularly to stimulate growth of good microbes, but to give the plants a source of carbs and beneficial sugars they need to pack on bud weight and density and to improve flavor. (I've read mixed reviews on the flavor thing -- some swear it makes your bud taste wonderful and others say they don't notice a difference in taste at all.) In other words, one might want to use this EM recipe for different reasons than using molasses and that one might use the EM recipe *and* still use molasses in the normal dilution of one or two teaspoons to the gallon.

Is my interpretation of all this correct or incorrect? Like I said, I have some sick buds going right now, but I don't know if I can attribute that partly to using molasses since week 2 in flower or if they would have ended up like that anyway. The pics below are of my three ladies from my first indoor grow (going into week 7 -- they are going into week 9 now) and I used molasses. Four of the buds are over 16" long and as big around as a Coke can. There is a close-up of two of them below. All of the buds are nearly dripping with resin. I wonder how much better they would have turned out using the EM recipe. All things said, though, if this is the slow lane, I don't know how much faster I want to go!
 
to add a nice sweet flavor to the buds do you think its better to use molassis or some sweet orange?
 
Hey Dada, great questions and well said. The Black-strap Molasses is used because it's the most basic form of molasses and has the highest concentration of raw sugars to interact with the EM in solution.

Yes, there are a bunch of people who use raw molasses. I believe many more than those who combine the additional benefit of the EM process.

As for the benefit of raw sugar to plants, I'd love to read some studies of it if you have any handy. I've looked, but so far, I've found nothing but anecdotes. Please, if you can provide links to anything resembling scientific testing with this raw molasses usage, I really would like to read it.

I have seen a lot of people saying what you more-or-less repeated; "I don't know if I can attribute that partly to using molasses since week 2 in flower or if they would have ended up like that anyway."

I would love to have a report of some type of testing having been done to prove this method, right here in this thread for reference to everyone's questions.

Your buds are beautiful man! Without another group to compare to without the molasses, there really isn't any way to tell what the best practice is.

I'll be right over to help you smoke some of that bud man...:D
 
Dada said:
Yes, I did, Alaskabud -- and that kind of proves my point. There is *one* guy talking about why you should use corn syrup instead of blackstrap molasses and he doesn't even appear to actually have experience growing with it -- just kind of a theoretical statement. He discusses potential problems with molasses and the root system, but I just haven't seen many negative posts about that. Most of what I see mirrors your positive experience with blackstrap molasses (with only one exception that I can recall, below). Meanwhile, there are probably posts from 50 different people on this forum alone who have used blackstrap molasses with positive results. I did see one post a while back from a hydro person who showed sludgy roots after adding molasses, but it looked like he poured it in directly from the bottle instead of diluting it first. I mean, it was the day after he added it to the res and the roots looked like they had molasses dripping off of them. Many others swear by it. (BTW, I read -- like four times -- the entire thread by 3littlebirds on molasses before I finally decided to use it in my hydro grow.)

I'm sure that some of the commercial additives contain (or *are*) corn syrup, but what folks have remarked on in this forum is the way several of the additives smell exactly like molasses when they open the bottle. Folks are also very specific in that it *has* to be blackstrap molasses and not just normal molasses. I assume, then, that blackstrap molasses has something that other molasses and presumably corn syrup does not have. 3littlebirds actually discusses that in one of the earlier segments of that post.

Ultimately, it comes down to what you want to do. If you want to experiment and you have the time and resources to do so -- cool -- that's how we learn. Someone's gotta do it. I doubt that corn syrup would damage anything and probably helps a lot. However, if you are like me and you are just doing tons of research to find how to grow the biggest, dankest, stickyest, sickest buds, then you tend to stick with the tried and true... I have paid attention to virtually everything folks have written on this forum and now I am a week away -- maybe a week-and-a-half -- from chop and couldn't be happier. Each of my WW plants have two buds that are more than 16" long and bigger around than a Coke can along with numerous other smaller buds (only 8" or 10" long) on other stems. They are so coated with resin that they look like they are wet. Is all of this because of the molasses? I don't know. I just tried to research this forum and learn what had worked for multiple people on multiple grows and I kinda went with that. When I start seeing numerous posts about the superiority of corn syrup over blackstrap molasses, I'll switch!

Just messing with ya, tried to see if I could get ya to read that whole longass molasses article again:D
Molasses, corn syrup, whatever, I don't believe it's the trace elements in blackstrap that are responsible for the weight gain in MJ. It's the carbs which is a fancy name for sugars that do the trick. Brown sugar would probably work just as good.:D
 
Hey Stoney, you'd be welcome to come over and share my smoke any time and alaskabud you are welcome too! After all, you and a few other folks in the hydro section are largely responsible for the way my grow turned out. It is the guidance I received by reading the posts on this forum that helped me know what to do. I don't have any studies to point to other than what folks here post. I read everything avidly and try to pick what I think is the best/most sensible advice and then I go with that. I guess I just saw so many testimonials about molasses that I figured I'd give it a try. I don't know what individual things made the most difference for my grow (except for basic things like cab and bubble hydro construction, lighting, and keeping ph in balance and using appropriate nutes) -- I guess it is more a cumulative total of everything I have picked up from folks here.
 
I'd smoke one with ya too Dada. Couldn't agree more that the forums are responsible for my MJ plants staying alive and well.
 
Man, I was hoping someone would jump in with a half dozen studies that have been done!

Hey, we'll all have to meet in the chat room and have a smokeout.

I've already started...
 
So hey, Noodles, did you hear about the family of moles that lined up near the entrance to their underground home?

Well, one morning, the Father Mole, he climbs up the hole and looks out, sniffs the air and says "Man oh man, I smell pancakes!"

The Mother Mole was right behind him and squeezed up beside him and said, "Oh my! I smell lots of melted butter!"

Their youngest tried to squeeze out the hole to see what he could smell, but Mom Mole and Dad Mole were blocking it completely.

He yelled "All I can smell is Molasses"

Hahahaahaha, ok, I'm stoned.

Tell me you didn't laugh...
 
So will 2 weeks of the corn syrup do anything? Not to get back to the original question, :eek: Or should I not add it now.:confused:
 
That was honestly the funniest joke ive heard in a long time:banana:
 
noodles said:
That was honestly the funniest joke I've heard in a long time:banana:

Hahahaa, I couldn't help myself. That oldy popped into my head and I had to post it. Perfect topic.

noodles said:
So will 2 weeks of the corn syrup do anything? Not to get back to the original question, :eek: Or should I not add it now.:confused:

Frankly, I don't know noodles. I certainly have no supporting evidence that it would help, hurt or do nothing at all.

I know that if I used that stuff here in the glades, I would have a house full of critters lapping it up and multiplying. Bugs own Florida. I just use a piece of it.

I would love to see a split grow under the same light with half the grow chambers being with and half being without added molasses or corn syrup.

It would be interesting to see the cured results and weights.
 

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