Quick question about lime and PH... and a few other things Ph related

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What do you do?

  • LIME and don't sweat PH

  • Are you crazy? PH your nute solution!!!

  • Use lime and PH balance your nute solution.


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kiksroks

Fat Farmer
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Is it correct to assume based on what i have read here and on other websites that if i use lime in my soil mix it will buffer the soil to 7.0 And it will not matter what the PH of my nutrient solution is?

I am planning on using 5 parts FFOF to 1 part perlite and adding the lime. I will be using FF Big Bloom, FF Tiger Bloom according to the instructions on the bottle but not for 2-3 weeks after planting and finishing with Gravity.

Would it be wise to use the lime and forgo ph monitoring/control or would it be better to just PH my nute solution before watering and adjust it as needed?

I will be watering with well water that is pretty alkaline at about 7.8 ph and a TDS of about 150ppm. Is that going to be a problem?

Am I wrong in my belief that the nutes typically lower ph and mostif not all ph problems in soil are due to the soil becoming to acidic due to the breakdown of these nutrients?

other info:
Indoor/soil grow
5 gallon buckets
12-24 plants of varying strains
1kw hps, air cooled
adequate ventilation
4'x6'x8' grow area enclosed in panda

Just finalizing the details for my next grow. I would be willing to buy a ph meter and balancing supplies if it is a better way to go.

Thanks in advance!
 
Question #1: The ph of your nutrient solution always matters. Using lime to adjust your ph to 7.0 is interesting. Is there a reason you want 7.0? Because MJ prefers soil ph of 6.5.

Question #2: I don't really think you need to add lime at all considering the soil and nutes you are using.

Question #3: I would track your ph instead of just trusting lime.

Question #4: 150 ppm well water and 7.8 ph are both a little high. I am not sure what you would need to do as far as nutes are concenred because I have never used that line of nutes (sorry).

Question #5: yes, nutes typically lower your ph, but again I have never used that line (sorry). Soil becomes more acidic over time as the nutes build up in the soil (why you want a 6.5 ph for soil grows as opposed to 5.5-6 for hydro).
 
SensiStarFan said:
Question #1: The ph of your nutrient solution always matters. Using lime to adjust your ph to 7.0 is interesting. Is there a reason you want 7.0? Because MJ prefers soil ph of 6.5.

Question #2: I don't really think you need to add lime at all considering the soil and nutes you are using.

Question #3: I would track your ph instead of just trusting lime.

Question #4: 150 ppm well water and 7.8 ph are both a little high. I am not sure what you would need to do as far as nutes are concenred because I have never used that line of nutes (sorry).

Question #5: yes, nutes typically lower your ph, but again I have never used that line (sorry). Soil becomes more acidic over time as the nutes build up in the soil (why you want a 6.5 ph for soil grows as opposed to 5.5-6 for hydro).


Thanks for your detailed answers to my questions.

I didn't mean to imply that i wanted the ph at 7.0. I just thought that that was what lime did (buffer to 7.0). Like if i added the lime the soil ph would be 7.0 regardless of any other factors. Would it? Although based on the nute availability charts 7.0 would be on the high side of okay. Wouldn't it?

If I maintained the PH myself i would be looking for 6.5 to 6.8. . .

Thanks again
 
kiksroks said:
Is it correct to assume based on what i have read here and on other websites that if i use lime in my soil mix it will buffer the soil to 7.0 And it will not matter what the PH of my nutrient solution is?

I am planning on using 5 parts FFOF to 1 part perlite and adding the lime. I will be using FF Big Bloom, FF Tiger Bloom according to the instructions on the bottle but not for 2-3 weeks after planting and finishing with Gravity.

Would it be wise to use the lime and forgo ph monitoring/control or would it be better to just PH my nute solution before watering and adjust it as needed?

I will be watering with well water that is pretty alkaline at about 7.8 ph and a TDS of about 150ppm. Is that going to be a problem?

Am I wrong in my belief that the nutes typically lower ph and mostif not all ph problems in soil are due to the soil becoming to acidic due to the breakdown of these nutrients?

I'm 180* away from SSF.:ignore: :eek: :D :D

Get the lime, use the lime, forget about your pH. I still use my pH meter, just once in a while.

Your well water will be fine. Under 200PPM is okey dokey.

Lime's pH is 7.0, but it shouldn't take your soil to that point, more like in the mid to upper 6's, right where you want to be.

Just check your run off. Should be between 6.3-6.8, with the lime. If not, then play with the pH of ingoing stuff, but it shouldn't be necessary.

I don't pH my water, although it isn't quite as high as yours (~7.3) and half the time I use it straight from the tap, chloramine and all.:eek:

I run an amended mix and use few nutes, but I don't pH them either. I'll check it to see when it's right. It's Earth Juice and starts off very acidic and with a couple days of bubbling comes up to 6.5 or so.

LOL Sorry SSF, the only ones who don't 'trust' lime are the ones who haven't used it.:D Once you do and dial it in, the pH meter gathers dust.

It's cheap, it's easy, it works and it's the second ingredient added to my mic, right after the peat moss.:watchplant:

Wet
 
Wetdog said:
LOL Sorry SSF, the only ones who don't 'trust' lime are the ones who haven't used it.:D Once you do and dial it in, the pH meter gathers dust.


Wet

No it's cool. That's why I was asking why he wanted it to get his ph to 7.0. I have never used lime, but I have used that soil he is using and I have never found a need for lime before, which is why I was questioning the addition of it.

Wetdog obviously knows more about this than I do. I hereby bow out to his superior knowledge :)
 
SensiStarFan said:
No it's cool. That's why I was asking why he wanted it to get his ph to 7.0. I have never used lime, but I have used that soil he is using and I have never found a need for lime before, which is why I was questioning the addition of it.

Wetdog obviously knows more about this than I do. I hereby bow out to his superior knowledge :)

A little off with the 7.0 thing, but I can understand the confusion on his part.

I guess it must be the nutes used (I haven't used any of them, his or yours), because some report zero problems with pH (like you) and others have pH lockout up the yang. Usually in flower.

FFOF does add something, oyster shell IIRC for pH. Perhaps some batches have enough and some are light? IDK

It's not so much the nutes become acidic (they do), but as the peat breaks down IT becomes MORE acidic and it's acidic to start with. Also why it shows up later in the grow for the most part.

Wet
 
SensiStarFan said:
No it's cool. That's why I was asking why he wanted it to get his ph to 7.0. I have never used lime, but I have used that soil he is using and I have never found a need for lime before, which is why I was questioning the addition of it.

Wetdog obviously knows more about this than I do. I hereby bow out to his superior knowledge :)

I checked out your grow journal and the ProMix soil you're using has lime listed in the ingredients in the pic you posted. . .
 
Wetdog said:
A little off with the 7.0 thing, but I can understand the confusion on his part.

I guess it must be the nutes used (I haven't used any of them, his or yours), because some report zero problems with pH (like you) and others have pH lockout up the yang. Usually in flower.

FFOF does add something, oyster shell IIRC for pH. Perhaps some batches have enough and some are light? IDK

It's not so much the nutes become acidic (they do), but as the peat breaks down IT becomes MORE acidic and it's acidic to start with. Also why it shows up later in the grow for the most part.

Wet

That is how i thought it worked but it just seemed too good to be true. . . I guess i just wanted to hear it from more experienced growers.

Thanks for your input!
 
kiksroks said:
I checked out your grow journal and the ProMix soil you're using has lime listed in the ingredients in the pic you posted. . .

AaaaHaaa!!!!!:hubba: :hubba:

A closet lime user.:rofl: :rofl: :huh:

Wet
 
kiksroks said:
I checked out your grow journal and the ProMix soil you're using has lime listed in the ingredients in the pic you posted. . .

Yes, but I have never added lime which is why I was confused. And just having lime in your soil is not going to keep your ph constant. You can put water/nutes in with a ph of 10 and you are still going to ruin your grow.
 
SensiStarFan said:
Yes, but I have never added lime which is why I was confused. And just having lime in your soil is not going to keep your ph constant. You can put water/nutes in with a ph of 10 and you are still going to ruin your grow.

This is true, because they add so little. Looks good on the list of ingredients, but way under applied by them.

Wet
 
Awesome info guys.

How much lime should be added Wet?
 
IMO you should always throw in a bit of lie and ALWAYS PH your water. Now a lot of pro-mixes and FFOF have lime or other ph stabilizing ingredients already in them, but it's hard to overdo it with lime, and its good to be safe. This safeguard is nice especially if you are using small pots or have long flowering plants which may make it easier for the lime to become depleted over time.

Having lime in your soil isn't going to adjust the waters PH for you with the PH level you'll be watering at. Theres a lot of micro activity in soil which without lime would drop the soils ph. This is what the lime is meant to do, as bacteria and fungi do there thing and as things break down, things get acidic, but lime is there to stabilize. Lime, however cannot constantly adjust your waters ph for you, the water is too readily available for the roots to absorb before the lime can work its magic so you'll start lockin up nutes if you don't PH your water before you water.
 
I dont use soil for my grows and am quite inexperienced growing however I worked in an electro plating plant where we had our own water treatment works so phing stuff is something I know quite a bit about.
Blanco is quite right that the lime will act as a buffer to the soil, it's why its added to many grow soils. He is also right when he says the plants drink/absorb the nuted water before the lime has had a chance to work so the advice should be to ph the ingoing nute solution. Most nutes also have buffers in them, up & down however again these take time to work and if you nute your water, than feed the same day, the buffers won't have had time to work.
My advice, for what its worth, would be to collect the water, ph it to the range you require then mix your nutes. Leave it for a day or so, recheck the ph, then water/feed.
I had big ph problems when I first started growing and follow this regime with my tap water (ph 7 and EC of 0.1, very clean soft water) Since I have been doing this my plants look very lush & green since they are getting the nutes they need.
Good luck & lots of green mojo
 
FFOF has been my primary medium for years. I always add lime. It not only buffers the ph, but provides mg. Which is often deficient late in the grow.
I also run the FF trio pretty much exclusively. I mix my nutients then I adjust the ph. My welll water runs just a li'l bit over 7.0 usually.
 
Actually, you should add your nutes and then pH the solution. If you pH your water and then add nutes, the pH is going to be off. It should always be done the other way around.
 
Yes, add lime to your soil and PH your water/nute solution.

I think only a 100% organic grow would get away with lime and ignoring PH.
 
Hick said:
FFOF has been my primary medium for years. I always add lime. It not only buffers the ph, but provides mg. Which is often deficient late in the grow.
I also run the FF trio pretty much exclusively. I mix my nutients then I adjust the ph. My welll water runs just a li'l bit over 7.0 usually.

How much and what specific lime product do you use.

Would Lilly Miller Super Sweet hxxp://www.lillymiller.com/sweeteners.html be a good choice?
 
kiksroks said:
How much and what specific lime product do you use.

Would Lilly Miller Super Sweet hxxp://www.lillymiller.com/sweeteners.html be a good choice?

I'll have to root around for the specific name, but I got it at Lowes. Lowes seems to be the only place in my area with powdered/ground Dolo lime. Everyone has the pellets though.

"I" use 2tbl/gallon of mix or 1cup/CuFt of mix.

Wet
 

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