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Old 03-01-2009, 12:22 AM   #1
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Default lowering PH levels

Is distilled vinager ok to use to lower the PH in my water? Or is there something better? Thanks guys
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Old 03-01-2009, 12:42 AM   #2
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Ive heard you can use vinegar and baking soda to raise and lower your ph. I bought kit (test strip, up, down) less hassle for me.
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Old 03-01-2009, 12:46 AM   #3
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idk ill be watching this, i need to lower my ph some too.
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Old 03-01-2009, 01:49 AM   #4
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I bought this stuff called PH Up and Down it came in 2 500ml bottles $10 bucks for both at the local Hydro shop!
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Old 03-01-2009, 04:25 AM   #5
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ph down is a strong acid, sulfuric i believe. i know that lemon juice is unacceptable as it breaks down and the ph quickly goes back up. i use HCL. the chlorine may be a prob but it works so far. i use ph down sometimes but only if they seem weak.

I spent about 2 weeks trying vin and it didnt work. they would look good for about 18hrs then mr hyde came out. hcl and sulfuric have worked well.
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Old 03-01-2009, 03:07 PM   #6
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Get some pH up and/or down--something that is made to raise or lower pH. Food products break down very fast and they only work for a short time.

Also, you may only need one of them. I only have pH down, because my water is never too alkaline.
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Old 03-01-2009, 06:47 PM   #7
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A Home Made Option......




Quote:
GenHydro
05-31-2006, 01:14 PM
If you note your 'sulphuric pH hydroponics' google, on the first page of hits, is a tutorial on how to dilute battery acid for home hydroponics. The author describes a mixture of 950 ml. of water, to 50 ml. of battery acid.
The ratio of 950 to 50 isn't 9.5 to one. it's 19 to one. That gives you 20 parts in your solution, 19 of them being water, one being battery acid.

Well, that's to make one full litre.

a gallon is 128 ounces. At 8 ounces per cup, that's 16 cups per gallon. If you then did as the author of the site above and cut the acid with water, you could easily do a 15 cups of water, to 1 cup of battery acid, giving yourself a 15/1 ratio, instead of a 19/1 ratio. A little stronger, but, still quite within the same general range, of concentration when it is over.

Sulphuric will dissolve some plastics. Not all by any means and one that it won't dissolve, is the type you see on the bottom of plastic jugs denoted in the 'recyclable' triangle of the three arrows with a number inside, #2. It often says "h.d.p.e." under the universal 'recyclable' triangle with that 2 in it. The hdpe letters stand for "high density poly ethylene". A very common plastic for all sorts of plastic jugs.

Find one that is a gallon in size.

Go buy a gallon of some relatively pure water. Distilled is i guess technically the absolutely purest in the land, de-ionized, or reverse osmosis, is a VERY close second, and tap water will work in a pinch.

Fetch a measuring cup. Make sure, please, that you don't fetch one that sulphuric will dissolve, by somehow or other doing a little test before hand, with a couple of drops of acid on the handle of it and a short wait, rinse, and examination, or get a glass one. Don't use a metal one. it'll corrode I'm pretty sure

NOTE: WHEN AN ACID MIXES WITH WATER, HEAT IS GIVEN OFF IN RELATIVELY SMALL, YET SIGNIFICANT QUANTITIES.

DO NOT DO NOT MIX WATER,

INTO ACID.

DO MIX ACID, INTO A LARGE QUANTITY OF WATER.

If you drop the water into concentrated acid, the resultant steam droplet, surrounded by WAY enough acid to boil that little drop, will result in an expanding steam droplet so quick and severe, that acid could splash all over your face

The acid, dropped into the water, will be cooled by the vast quantity of water, and no such 'explosive expansion' will occur.

Clean out your plastic jug. Fill it, with exactly 15 cups of water. There will be some space left over, right? a gallon is 16 cups.

Then, having returned from auto zone with your new quart of Seven Dollar and Fifty Cent battery electrolyte - acid-

Find a way to carefully open that acid, letting your freedom loving and responsible grown man make the smallest hole possible, so that when you store the acid later, it can't possibly spill everywhere.

The stuff is sold in a black and white generic box that says "DANGER: YOU CAN BE BURNED BADLY" on the side.

Inside will be either a clear plastic bag, with a spout for you to somehow clip, snip, poke, open; or a plastic box, with a spout for you to somehow clip, snip, poke, open;

Mine came in a plastic box with a screw off lid on one end, a little spout to cut off with a knife on the other.

I grabbed a drywall screw, and used it to screw into the top of that little spout, making a really, tiny hole, so it will be quite difficult to spill it later.

DRY OUT YOUR MEASURING CUP for um... good.... Measure. Don't let Murphy's law splash acid in your eyes by wearing some sunglasses. or some safety glasses. Or, do this near a faucet and if you get any in your eyes, wash it out immediately, and for a prolonged time. If you get it in your eyes, try to save one eye so you can finish this project before time for bed and work in the morning.

pour exactly one cup into the measuring cup.

Now; slowly pour the acid, into the gallon jug you have, that's already got the previous 15 cups of water in it. When you're done, wash out the measuring cup with tap water. Use soap or your wife will be pissed.

You now have, a 15 to 1 ratio, of battery acid, to purified water. here is how this breaks down:

15 cups is 120 ounces. The cup of acid you poured in was 38%. 38% of a cup, is 3.04 ounces. Lets call it 3 ounces. The other 5 ounces, was distilled water. Surprise.

So in effect, you have poured together, 3 ounces of pure sulphuric acid, and 125 ounces of water..
In order to find what percentage a little number is, of a larger number, you divide, the little number, by the bigger number, with a calculator: 3/125 = .024
(divide the little number by the big number. the answer comes out: .whatever - in this case .024

you move your . over, 2 places, to the right: it becomes whatever - and this is the percentage that your small number comprises of the larger one. In this case, .024, is 2.4 percent.

So, your new pH down solution is a 2.4 percent solution of sulphuric acid. At this point, if you dip your finger in it and touch it to your tongue, it will feel about as strong as a really cold coke on a real hot day. Don't drink it; i was just showing you that you don't have to be scared.

You can now put the stuff into your tap water, or your nutrient solution at oh, about.... the same amount as it would take if you used General Hydroponics pH down.

The difference? Well, it works just as well. It just doesn't add any phosphorus ppms.

The main difference is that you didn't have to drive to Timbuktu to go to the Hydro store; you don't have a big jug of "HEY I GROW POT HYDROPONICALLY LOOK AT ME" Sitting around, and the cost. Here's about how that breaks down.

1 Qt General Hydroponics pH down: give or take -15 bucks.
1Qt of your approved pH down: give or take - 72 Cents. if you used your own R.O. water or tap - 46 cents.

((7.50 for a quart of acid is 1.88 for a cup of it, (4 cups in a quart by the way) that makes a gallon of your pH down.)) a gallon has 4 quarts. That 1.88 divided by 4 is 47 cents. It costs 47 cents worth of acid to make your quart of pH down; a gallon of distilled water from a store is about 99 cents.. let's call it a buck; a quart of that water, is then, 25 Cents.

25 cents for a quart of distilled water from the store, plus 47 cents for the acid to make that quart of your pH down, 25 + 47 = 72 cents, more or less.
Quote:
GenHydro
05-31-2006, 01:21 PM
No, it's not poisonous to the plants. If you do some creative googling, such as "Sulphuric pH down hydroponics" or "Sulphur toxicity roots" or Sulphuric toxicity or whatever,

You'll notice there isn't much said about sulphur toxicity. That's because it takes a lot of sulphur to hurt a plant. Not as much to hurt an animal. But plants do ok with quite a bit of it around.

However if you do some googling such as "Phosphorus toxicity roots" or 'Phosphoric acid precipitate' you will see where phosphoric acid is remarked about; sometimes they say, it will combine with calcium in water and precipitate out. I think this occurs when the pH is already climbing up into the sixes.

One thing that's interesting to note is that if the site isn't a hemp site, most of them suggest sulphuric as the recommended pH down. I guess it's because sulphuric is often cheaper, more easy to find anywhere, and is also a mild anti fungal agent, and doesn't have the problem of precipitating out when the pH starts to rise, although I'm certainly no expert on it.

You'll have to do your own google searches for all that. I can tell you a little bit; i can't make you free. Knowledge is power. Proper use of power is wisdom. and only wise men can be free for very long so you'll have to take care of the freedom loving wisdom accumulating part, yourself.

Good luck all. OverGrow the World.

Last edited by bud.uncle; 03-01-2009 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 03-01-2009, 08:35 PM   #8
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bud uncle, thats one great find. helps out the broke growers like myself, i probably wont do this but hell it helps. i might i dont know lol. i almost didnt read it, i was kinda thinking, you know id rather spend more money than read this and go along with all the math in it lol. but yeah thats a great read now that i read it. thanks
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Old 03-01-2009, 10:13 PM   #9
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Can anyone remind me if hcl breaks down in soil?
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Old 03-01-2009, 10:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotek
Can anyone remind me if hcl breaks down in soil?
Quote:
CONCLUSION

The mechanisms of acidification I have discussed here are among many.2 On a geological time scale, the gradual leaching of bases (HCO3- CO32- etc.) from soil is probably a significant cause of acidification. In agriculture, adding elemental sulphur (not sulphate) to a soil is another well known source of acidification ( 1t sulphur when fully oxidized produces acidity equivalent to 1.1 t hydrochloric acid). ‘Ferrolysis’ (a series of reactions resulting from extreme waterlogging) has been proposed as a mechanism of acidification (Bradley and Vimpany, cited by Lee, 1980).
In Europe and Canada ‘acid rain’ (rainfall containing acids released originally as industrial waste into the atmosphere) is causing acidification of large areas. In the Western Australian wheatbelt many of the older soils have extremely acid subsoils. Ploughing these soils to a depth greater than 10 cm may mix the acid subsoil through the topsoil and so increase the acidity of the topsoil.
More than one of these mechanisms are probably acting on any one soil. We cannot yet generalize to the extent of saying that one mechanism is more important than the others in a particular situation.
To identify the sources of acidification for any soil we need to be able to balance acidity inputs with the change in acidity of the soil. We do not have accurate measurements of how fast particular soils are becoming acid. The reason for this is that the studies which have shown that soils have become more acid have not taken into account the possibility that the treatments which caused the soils to become acid may also have altered the bulk density and the salt content of the surface soil (Uren, 1981). An over estimation of the rate of acidification would result either from increases over time in bulk density of a soil the pH of which rises with depth or from increases in the salt content of a soil when the pH is measured in a soil water suspension.
The in depth topic covering Soil Acidification can be read here

hxxp://www.regional.org.au/au/roc/1981/roc198131.htm
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