The Magic of Oxygen ... Fighting Hydroponic Diseases....Nano Bubblers

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Matty

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It has been stated that any and all diseases you want to avoid are already in your system.

Trying to maintain a perfectly sterile environment will only hurt and hinder growth. Good bacteria is critical to proper plant growth.

It is a question of "how healthy" your plants are so that they can constantly fight off any diseases within their environment. White roots means all is good. Slimey roots means all is bad. Some fertilizers and good bacteria will stain your roots a bit brown. As such, looking for slime is key to knowing your roots are bad.

When you see sick plants and start adding chemicals to rid yourself of bad bacteria or bad spores, chances are the plants are too far gone. Knowing what the difference is between a plant that is "reaching" vs one that is slightly limp...that is when adding chemicals will make a difference. Otherwise, your best alternative is preventative chemical treatments which I will talk about in another thread.

Good oxygenation is key to "controlling" 95% of your existing diseases.
The problem is getting O2 into the water.
In technical terms we are looking for the ppm of O2 in water or "dissolved Oxygen"

There are many ways to get O2 into your system:
1. Good water fall into reservoir
2. Air pump with air stones
3. Venturi method
4. Electrolysis
5. Ozone
6. Chemical reaction
7. Pumping O2 directly into reservoir
8. Micro Bubblers
9. Nano Bubblers

First and foremost...you need to get a "dissolved oxygen meter". Cheapest I found was on Ebay for about $100. Called the YSI Model 57. Measures from 0 to 20 ppm. Unit has a chart on the back for water temp and elevation to offset O2 ppm readings.

This leads into have a chilling reservoir. The colder the water..the MORE O2 is can absorb!!! = less disease. Typical tap water at 18 degrees centigrade is about 9.45 ppm to give you an idea what 100% O2 saturation is. Trick to calibrating meter....shake water in plastic jug for 30 seconds and take reading...adjusting for temperature..that is 100% O2 ppm

Most plant life wants 8+ ppm of dissolved O2 (will say D.O. from now on). My current system is running 16 to 17 ppm with my chiller running 60 degrees farenheit + waterfall + venturi input+Ozone.

Air pumps with air stones are only good for small setups where the water level is under 4 inches deep. Anything deeper, and the O2 bubbling diminishes greatly. For me, I do this setup for my juveniles...when the have their first roots...to about 3 weeks of age (1-8 inches). You want enough bubbling action to make it look like ALL the water is ferociously bubbling. This action does NOT hurt roots.

Venturi systems are when you combine a water pump with a T section of piping to "pull" in air. This system is GREAT because it does NOT matter how deep the water is. So for DWC...getting good bubbles down 2 feet of water is no problem. For my system, I put a 800 gallon per hour pump in my reservoir with the venturi T piping to create tremendous bubbling + circulation.

Items 4, 5, 6, 7 are mostly what is done at the corporate level to treat lakes and ponds...too expensive for the home grower.

Items 8 and 9 are what I am really writing about. Only a few companies make the nano bubblers...and for about $900. That just is for the piece of plastic that makes the bubbles!. Nanobubbling is a combination of centrifugal force and air pressure to yield water bubbles in the 1 to 10 micron size range. At this size, the bubble exists for a few minutes which really helps put the O2 into the solution. This technology is really for chemical laboratories that need good ways to mix gasses within a liquid solution. Why it is so expensive. However, I think it is the next step to increasing D.O. within a hydroponic system.

That leads me to my next question....anyone found a cheap Nanobubbler?
It has to produce bubbles in the 1-10 micron size and exist within solution for a few minutes.
It also has to do with with low pressure...say under 40 psi. Otherwise you start cutting roots.

The Micro bubbler yields 50+ micron size bubbles...not interested in that.

Regards to all,

Matty
 
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Those are micro bubblers..and the bubbles burst as soon as they hit the top of the water. The unit you refer to makes 80 micron bubbles. I am looking for a unit that makes 1-10 micron bubbles that "stay" in solution for a long time.

The idea is to super saturate the hydroponic water with the most O2 it can get.

Think of it as a system between hydroponic and aeroponic.

Here is a generator:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4czczYnuM_w

Here is what I refer to when the bubbles "stay" in solution:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ljlc9U1bDxc

My question is this:
Does anyone have experience with nano bubblers? If so..where can I find them at a reasonable price?

Regards,

Matty
 
Water is only capable of holding so much DO. Temps of the water is a contributing factor to how much.
 
growing MJ drowned in water is not a good idea even with bubbling low temp water, you need some air space for the roots like a DWC bucket. I use flood and drain and find no need for a bubbler whatsoever in that system. i never have root problems because they are growing in air. i use H2O2 for cleaning up the system from time to time
 
Hi PCDuck & Zem,

Thanks for your comments. I understand Boyle's law in relationship to saturation/temperature/pressure. What I am trying to do is get the plant to absorb even more O2 via additional processes.

What I have found is that you can increase the plant's O2 intake if you apply so much O2 to the system that the plant can actually get O2 via osmosis and from D.O through water consumption.

To do this osmotically, you need to increase the physical presence of O2 via bubbles. Specifically..bubbles that stay in solution for long periods of time. This is why I am focusing on nano bubbles. They never "pop"...they just slowly fade into the water over time (in minutes) as they rub up against the roots. Bubbles 50 micron and bigger rise to the surface and pop.

A 3rd method I use is via super cold water and super hot lamps. I am running 1200 watt bulbs on a light track about 2 inches above my plants while maintaining my chiller at 59 degrees farenheit. This creates a temperature variance that allows for water to "rise" up the plant via thermodynamics...much like a rain storm....without burning the plants.

In direct response to Zem, I agree that a lot of O2 can be absorbed via ebb and flow. However...when the plants get above 3 feet, they start drinking a LOT of water. While I don't disagree with you that your eb/flow system can still grow these plants...I do disagree in that the plants get stunted (not 100%..but easily 30%) when they want to drink and cannot. We all know how finicky these plants can get.

Regards,

Matty
 
you can simply make your waterings more often in hotter temps, they don'y have to live thirsty in ebb n flow
 
They never "pop"...they just slowly fade into the water over time (in minutes) as they rub up against the roots.

Since water can only hold so much DO before reaching its saturation level, where does the the excess O2 go? Since the water is not capable of holding it.
 
Since water can only hold so much DO before reaching its saturation level, where does the the excess O2 go? Since the water is not capable of holding it.

Up up and away. Lol
 
The excess O2 is in the form of bubbles that don't surface and pop. The water has its max D.O. in it..but the excess O2 comes from the bubbles...not the water.

Think of it like salt in water. At a certain point you reach saturation...no more salt can be "dissolved" into the water...however...you can still keep adding salt...it just sits in the water..bumping into whatever is in the water.

I am trying to do the same think with nano bubbles since they don't rise to the surface and pop like a normal bubble. The nano bubbles will stay in the water for minutes before slowly fading away. When these bubbles hit the roots...the roots absorb the O2 just as if they were in the dry air.

So what I am trying to do is make a system that is partially hydroponic and partially aeroponic...taking the best benefits of both systems to increase yields.
 
Salt is heavy(sinks), air is light(rises). Not much of a comparison.
 
Do you really need all this? What are you basing your assumptions on? I very very seldom have any problems with my hydro solutions getting funky. And if I do, it is H2O2 like orange mentioned. Do "nano" bubbles actually have any benefits over regular bubbles? Is there a point that the roots cannot use any more O2? Can there be too much O2--i.e. "the roots absorb the O2 just as if they were in the dry air", but plants cannot grow with their roots in dry air, so is this actually a desireable condition? Why are you assuming that ebb and flow plants get thirsty? What about DWC which always has water available? I love new ideas, but I need to be able to wrap my mind around the ideas.
 
Reminds me of the "The Abyss"......:smoke1:
 
His idea is flawed. Air bubbles do not just fade away. Once DO saturation occurs, no more O2 can be dissolved into the solution, no matter what. Even if all the O2 is dissolved you still have other gases in air that will continue to rise untill reaching the surface.
 
Duck, I still run hydro in the winter and am trying to wrap my head around this. Once you reach saturation, you can have no more DO. Also is there any evidence that small bubbles are better? Can there be too much DO for the roots? Just as the plant can only use so much CO2, I would assume that the roots also have an ideal DO level?
 
Small bubbles have less surface area then large bubbles and it is all about surface area.
I am not sure if mj has a limit or an ideal level of DO, but I don't think so. As once you reach saturation no more can be added to find out. I guess you could freeze the water to reach maximum DO, but the girls don't grow in ice.
 
simply, mj does not have an ideal DO level, as the ideal do level is beyond what water can hold in it, that is why, MJ cannot be grown in floating rafts like lettuce, with roots totally submerged, because it needs actual air and no level of achievable DO can meet that.
 
Hey guys ya'll got room for an aero guy in the conversation ?--- I use 35 gallon storage containers --Big black boxes with an orange lid with a checkerboard pattern !--- I use about 10 gallons of nute water with a filtered 396 gph pump pumps straight up thru a PVC manifold with micro sprayers !-- Anyway I run a bubbler in each box --Just a regular 2 inch diameter air stone !--- My bubbler is not an attempt to dissolve O2 into the water !--- Sure some may dissolve but my air pump and stone is for air exchange inside my boxes !--- The roots are just hanging there and can obsorb all the O2 they want from the air in the boxes as long as it is not stale !--- So all this talk of DO and venturi stuff and bubble size just really don't apply to my aero systems !-- Just one less thing for me to worry about !--- H2O2 in my res. ? --I don't think so !-- I use Richie Riches hydro tea as an additive got like 35,000 species of beneficials !-- About a cup per 10 gallons of nute solution per week !--
 

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