Pondering about hermies...

Straight to the point: Recently I had one herm on me, about 250 beans in 4 oz.
While picking through the buds and removing the seeds I noticed some of the seed pods had two seeds within and I began to wonder if it's possible that nature, in some way, is trying to restore a natural balance. That is, one male and one female seed in the one pod..
I set those seeds aside to test at a later time but unfortunately they got mixed with the rest..

So I guess the question is, Have others had these twin bean situations before? I suppose it could have been twin hermies..

Does anyone think it to be possible to breed out the hermie gene?

Simple answer is this is strain dependent. Stacking calyxes will have more then one pistil and multiple "hairs" coming out of them. A standard calyx only has 2 hairs and one pistil.

I know this because true OG always stacks calyxes...like this (pic attached) notice is has 4 hairs (and the one below it has 2) growing out of one calyx at one node, this is a trait of all the OGs I have seen...plus a few other strains like Jack Herer.

*And please for the love of god DESTROY all the seeds. Its been my experience that hermies don't breed out. They get even more herm.

Nice picture.

thanks!
that was 4 weeks in on the SFV...stacking calyxes is the ONLY reason I still grow it for patients. If it didn't stack, I would lose far to much $ as the OG is just not a big producer and a grower really counts on the final few weeks for the buds to literally double in size and weight.

OGKushman said:

*And please for the love of god DESTROY all the seeds. Its been my experience that hermies don't breed out. They get even more herm.

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The beans shall be disposed of in an environmentally safe manner.

I appreciate your input. I don't have the space to try any kinda of breeding so I'll just order me some fresh beans.

Green mojo for your grow ishnish!

Mojo for sure! If you get a male seed (pure male), save some pollen and make some seeds!

The beans shall be disposed of in an environmentally safe manner.

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:rofl:....:aok:

You know fem seeds that companies sell are from herm plants?

Bit of hermophobia going on here...

uhoh....... f
"femmed" seeds are NOT just hermie seeds.. not quality ones anyway. AND "hermophobia" is DEFINITELY alive and well here.
The "real" Breeders... that produced the high quality genetics that are being used for the basis of much..(uhhumm) breeding today, worked diligently to breed away from, to breed OUT the hermy characteristic. Because 'they' knew it is a very UNdesirable and potentially, detrimental characteristic in 'drug quality' marijuana.
"Hermies procreate hermies"

Mate I don't see your point?

Fem seeds are bred away from being herm? Yeah and regular seeds are bred towards being a herm? Nope

So if you get a herm seed from a regular plant- what's the difference between that and a plant where the herm was deliberately induced?

Like i already said- femenized seeds are from herm plants. How they herm'd is not really relevant other than it wasn't a genetic tendency. Most the herm that people see is not a genetic trait that come out (like you said, breeders try to breed it out so it's not what you are buying) but rather a reaction to the environment they are growing in.

Most people battle their humidity and temperature but on top of that there are scores of people who dump truck loads of fertilizer on their plants thinking more is best.... THEN ON TOP OF THAT.... yeah list is very long but yet one more is lighting regimes- some people run their lights for 24 hours a day.. but even running at 18 which is the text book norm is more stressful than a natural out door lighting regime in most places of the world.

I've wrote a lot so my point might be lost-
Herm isn't the end of the world, it's perfectly natural for the plant (in fact the plant would be 'broken' if it didn't have a herm function waiting to be unleashed to help preserve it's species) and it's already a proven point that seed from a herm plant isn't outright rubbish that needs to be treated like bio-waste (with femenized seeds producing perfect females and mother plants)

:confused2:....... hermyy seeds are TRASH.. plain and simple my friend..
you'll get nowhere trying to theorise otherwise. hermies are the bain of growers and 'breeders' anywhere. They ruin quality and quantity. the only thing I can agree with, is that it 'is' a dominate trait in cannabis..but not a 'desirable' trait...

You don't even know for sure the herm offspring will herm themselves though.
Yes if it does and you just so happen to live next door to a breeder then you EDIThis females with lousy pollen... but how many of us are in that position?

Why would the average grower with no connection to breeding or passing genes into any public gene pool care if a few seeds pop up on their free plant? Here is Australia, when you buy "Bush" (means out door), you EXPECT seeds even though no one likes to accidentally chop one into their bowl or smoke one, the gear still can be a top notch high. The best weed i've ever bought off the streets had a few seeds in it- so why are people so TERRIFIED of a few seeds?

I'm not saying to nuts for bag seed and herm offspring but why the terror? Why treat it like a junkies used needle that needs safe disposal rather than just a low grade FREE seed?

FREE seeds are "just" as easily procured through "legitimate selection" of both male and female plants.. AND you aren't further promoting the UNdesirable hermy characteristic.
by procreating with hermie seeds you are essentially "selectively" breeding IN FAVOR OF/FOR that trait. It "is" a dominate trait, 'all the more' reason to NOT procreate/promote it in subsequent generations.
It is simple genetics. "Select only the best"... I'm sure there are links in the 'breeding' section here that you'll find interesting
If you're raising quarter horses, would you allow your mares to breed with the one-eyed, roman nosed, short backed, no hipped, big eared, fence busting, mustang stud running the range?..(it's FREE)
Maybe our standards are simply higher..:confused2:..(no disrespect intended) but "seeded" pot can't hardly be given away in my parts.

"If you're raising quarter horses, would you allow your mares to breed with the one-eyed, roman nosed, short backed, no hipped, big eared, fence busting, mustang stud running the range?..(it's FREE) "

YES I would keep it But would it be kept as a breeder or race horse? Of course not. Instead i'll take this FREE horse to the back paddock and donate it to some little orphan girl as petting animal/monster... she'll be cool with it cause have you seen the wierd **** kids watch like Yo Gabba Gabba?....

But that's exactly my point. I'm not saying to breed even more generations from it. In fact if you got a second generation herm seed then that's worse then what i'm talking about- i'm talking about a plant with healthy parents spitting out herm seed and growing just that first generation as low grade stock down the back of the yard... In fact i'm doing that right now. The plant i am refering too was sown in autumn so vegged for only 3-4 weeks (about 5 nodes tall i think) and has been flowering now for about 3 weeks I think. I have 3 things to say about it:

1) It's female
2) I haven't taken it at all seriously and it got nute burnt to **** but 0 male flowers thus far. So even though it's from inferior lineage AND has been very severely stressed it's still producing female nuggets and resin and no sign yet of a next generation.. although still lots of time for that
3) I didn't pay for the seed

Oh I got a question for you though since you do seem knowledgeable-

You said that breeders herm one plant and then put that pollen on to a second non-herm female to produce femenized seeds. I was of the understanding that it was self pollination that produced the females.

In my last run there was a heat wave followed by monsoon rain weather that lasted over a month. Anyhow for what ever reason, possibly the weather combined with fem'd seeds, one or more of the 4 female plants has pollinated all of them to an extent, but one plant far more than the others.
I didn't go looking for male flowers to investigate so i don't know which are self pollinated seeds and which ones are from a herm plant crossing with another... which itself could be herm too i guess, but also maybe not.

My question to you is do you believe that if only one of my plants hermed and pollinated another non-herm that the seed will be 'feminized'? (but of course bio-waste in your eyes )

I have a few dozen coming up now but i won't have any statistics on male/female untill atleast 3 weeks i imagine (going straight into flowering season outdoor).

resin-reaper said:

Oh I got a question for you though since you do seem knowledgeable-

You said that breeders herm one plant and then put that pollen on to a second non-herm female to produce femenized seeds. I was of the understanding that it was self pollination that produced the females.

In my last run there was a heat wave followed by monsoon rain weather that lasted over a month. Anyhow for what ever reason, possibly the weather combined with fem'd seeds, one or more of the 4 female plants has pollinated all of them to an extent, but one plant far more than the others.
I didn't go looking for male flowers to investigate so i don't know which are self pollinated seeds and which ones are from a herm plant crossing with another... which itself could be herm too i guess, but also maybe not.

My question to you is do you believe that if only one of my plants hermed and pollinated another non-herm that the seed will be 'feminized'? (but of course bio-waste in your eyes )

I have a few dozen coming up now but i won't have any statistics on male/female untill atleast 3 weeks i imagine (going straight into flowering season outdoor).

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thanks I'm somewhat 'knowledgable', but can be pretty 'opinionated' as well.
and I don't have a lot of first hand experience with hermied seeds (bio-waste ) BUT.. I will gladly give you my thoughts..
you might well get 'mostly' females from your seeds "initially".. but I 'believe' that they will also be more prone to go hermie 'somewhere' along the line than "well bred" seeds.
I 'know' that procreating with hermie parent seeds, increases the probability in future generations.

You said that breeders herm one plant and then put that pollen on to a second non-herm female to produce femenized seeds. I was of the understanding that it was self pollination that produced the females.

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I am positive that the method that I mentioned is the "correct" method. Though who's to say how anyone is actually doing it from each and every seed run. There are no "standards" or governing body to monitor or require any standards or methods.
I've often heard the seed business is pretty......"seedy"... :rofl:

she'll be cool with it cause have you seen the wierd **** kids watch like Yo Gabba Gabba?.

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:confused2:.. they DO have some weird stuff on kid tv these days don't they... :rofl:

Self pollination is what happens with hermies. Experienced breeders search for very stable non-hermie mothers to breed seeds. And it makes a HUGE amount of difference on the way that "they herm'd". Years ago we did not see nearly the hermies that we see now. I can not help but believe that a large amount of this is because of the continued use of hermie seeds and unresponsible "breeding" of hermies. I don't think you are going to win the hermie argument here. I think they are a bane also and all not a "gift" at all. Healthy parents DO NOT spit out herm seeds. Anything you plant in your yard can spread hermie pollen for miles, thus starting a nasty cycle. Good genetics created by responsible breeders are inexpensive. I'm glad I'm not your neighbor....

The Hemp Goddess said:

Self pollination is what happens with hermies. Experienced breeders search for very stable non-hermie mothers to breed seeds. And it makes a HUGE amount of difference on the way that "they herm'd". Years ago we did not see nearly the hermies that we see now. I can not help but believe that a large amount of this is because of the continued use of hermie seeds and unresponsible "breeding" of hermies. I don't think you are going to win the hermie argument here. I think they are a bane also and all not a "gift" at all. Healthy parents DO NOT spit out herm seeds. Anything you plant in your yard can spread hermie pollen for miles, thus starting a nasty cycle. Good genetics created by responsible breeders are inexpensive. I'm glad I'm not your neighbor....

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Amen...... try growing on an island.... lot of Hawaiian Ibls was lost to a bad neighbor growing his herm crap.. thus we are where we are now in the islands.. its almost imposible to do any jungle breeding... Im believer in once a Hermie always a Hermie... Lazy growers keep hermies IMO.. and this whole hyping a strain thing changing the name of cuts selfing in the name of saving a strain kinda has back fired and started a domino efect and really have become a problem .. IMO specially since Overgrow shut down.. buying seeds is a crap shoot now days.. ends rant...



Aloha
SquidyP

lol well all i can say is "don't live next door to me" because i've got a dozen herm seed in the yard coming up

I think people are still getting me wrong. I'm not saying herm seed is good- just free. If you at all care about the quality of the plant- buy seeds from a respectable breeder. Honestly i wouldn't give a damn if my cat walked up and ate all the herm seed sprouts i got, but of course if it does all finish ok with minimal to no effort or concern then score.

So yeah don't live next to me, but in my selfishness i'll have a bit of extra smoke growing on the side.