anyone interested in talking about raw salts

bagabones · Jul 8, 2014

damn... I jst typed a bunch of stuff and poof! lost it
oh hum I will start again but this time shorter lol

I have been running my own nutes for about 5 years.. I made a bunch of mistakes and took many gambles experimenting with all kinds of stuff

ive followed plenty of bad advise from those posting and made plenty of stupid mistakes

messing with photo periods
mixing my own plant growth regulators
raw kelp, fulvic, amino experiemnts
and a range of nutrient levels trying to find the top and bottom range for each element

I just recently feel like im getting it right

I read read read on many forums from 7 or 10 years ago

and then just stopped the forums.. no more! I got paranoid!

the illness in my home has risen to a degree that im less afraid to share in this format
illness will do that

Hushpuppy · Jul 14, 2014

I may be wrong but it is my understanding that the Lucas formula is using only micro and bloom in a 1:2 ratio of micro:bloom solution, where there is no "grow" used. I would think the reverse of that would be to use micro and grow in a 2:1 ratio of grow:micro solution with no bloom used.

I prefer to use a more balanced approach where I use a 1:1:1 of grow, micro, and bloom during veg.
I don't know if you use EC or PPM(I use ppm but forget the formula for changing to EC) but I start out at about 300ppm for seedlings then work up to max for veg of about 800ppm. Then when I change over to flower, I increase the bloom each week while "halving" the grow nute until there is no more grow being used by the end of the 3rd week of flower and the micro/bloom being moved to about a 2:1 ratio of bloom:micro in a solution that goes up to about 1200-1400ppm

I hope this helps you.

bagabones · Jul 16, 2014

that may be what he meant

I don't know

the lucas formula is a formula where the N and P are equal and the K double the N

referring to the amount of elemental PPM of each individual macro nutrient...

ratio: 1:1:2 NPK

example

60 ppm N
60 ppm P
120 ppm K

to achieve the 1;1;2 ratio with GH nutes

you could use the micro and bloom only

this formula can be used with any type of nute that allows this mixture ratio

bagabones · Jul 16, 2014

so I was wondering how much water I actually use

so rather than estimating

I actually collected all my run off for 1 week

the waste was 45 gallons for a 4x4 with 9 plants and 1000 watts

running dtw

that's not really conserving but I bet most use this much for an ebb n flow or ebb n grow

shaggyballs · Jul 18, 2014

Very cool subject lets keep it going,I am just learning raw salts!

To those interested.
Cheap place I found for raw salts.
Raw Salts Here

bagabones · Jul 25, 2014

347 authored by Hoagland and Arnon (1950). This circular has been the most

widely cited publication in all crop science literature. The scientific literature

is full of hydroponic formulas that are identified as modified Hoagland nutrient

solutions with little given that describes what was modified. What most do

not know is that the Hoagland/Arnon nutrient solution formulations have use

components, 4 gallons of nutrient solution per plant with replacement on a

weekly basis. If any of these parameters is altered, i.e., volume of solution,

number of plants, and frequency of replacement, plant performance can be

significantly affected, a factor that is probably not fully understood or considered

by those who recommend a particular nutrient solution formulation. The

nutrient element contents for Hoagland/Arnon Nutrient Solution

bagabones · Jul 25, 2014

4 gallons of nutrient solution per plant with replacement on a

weekly basis. If any of these parameters is altered, i.e., volume of solution,

number of plants, and frequency of replacement, plant performance can be

significantly affected

bagabones · Jul 25, 2014

i suppose plant size, medium type, environmental differences and so on and on could be factors

either way... we each do what we do

I got 9 plants in a 4x4

4 glns per plant per week in a recirc = 36 glns

so my drain to waste uses 9 more gallons per week thatn what most would recommend for a recirc system

keep in mind im watering frequently to maximize growth and I could conserve more

I also keep my EC at 0.9 during flower while most others are up as high as 1.5.. so while I am using more water I am not using more fertilizer

bagabones · Jul 26, 2014

i don't subscribe the Hoagland method so admittedly i can not say it is accurate to a fault

therefore it is a very good argument that conservation could still result in a favorable result

bagabones · Jul 27, 2014

since I confused Hoagland and lucas and stenier in my head I have begun reading my book again to refresh my memory

shaggyballs · Aug 17, 2014

I know a bit about hormones.....would anyone want to school me on NPK ratio and formulation of a 2 part grow and a 2 part bloom in exchange for hormone info???
I know hydro buddy a tiny bit but not really!

shag

lyfespan · Sep 15, 2014

Subbed

shaggyballs · Nov 11, 2014

So I am on a page that asks if I wanna talk raw salt, and no one wants to talk salt???HMMM??

BrotherMonk · Dec 26, 2014

I'd love to talk about salts. I used this stuff a couple times. The first, I added triple the amount that I was supposed to. The results were a disaster. Second time, I used exactly the recommended and the results were absolutely unbelievable. The plants were the healthiest I have ever seen. It's been hiding under my kitchen sink for about 10 years. Peeking this thread sparked the memory and I went and dug it out. Think I'll be using this stuff again!

BM

lyfespan · Dec 26, 2014

It's an interesting concept, salts do move water in crazy ways.

shaggyballs · Jan 8, 2015

Minerals are the key to those salts!

Deman · Jan 24, 2015

Hey bagabones
I have been using a raw salts pretty well exclusively for the last two years. I got the recipe from some local growers that got the recipe (so I'm told) from an old Dutch guy years ago. You are one of the few guys I have seen on forums that does the same.
I have to read more carefully through the earlier posts and compare to what I am doing.
I use five salts and Chelated micronutrien for veg and four salts and the micronutes for bud in varying amounts (depending on veg or bud)
The recipe requires each ingredient to be dissolved in hot water and added to the res separately. I use 80 gal reservoirs and make batches in full or half strength depending on the stage of growth and adjust PPMs by adding more water to get the strength I want
Here is the recipe for full strength veg and bud (in grams)....lemee know what u think
Calcium Nitrate. 180 g
Potassium Sulphate. 20 g
Potassium Nitrate. 100g
Potassium Phospate. 50 g
Magnesium Sulphate. 170g
Micro Nutes. 20 g

Bud
Cal Nite. 464g
Pot Sulf. 144g
No pot nite. 0
Pot Phos. 124
Mag Sulf. 300g
Micro nutes. 15g

bagman · Feb 3, 2015

Deman said:
Hey bagabones
I have been using a raw salts pretty well exclusively for the last two years. I got the recipe from some local growers that got the recipe (so I'm told) from an old Dutch guy years ago. You are one of the few guys I have seen on forums that does the same.
I have to read more carefully through the earlier posts and compare to what I am doing.
I use five salts and Chelated micronutrien for veg and four salts and the micronutes for bud in varying amounts (depending on veg or bud)
The recipe requires each ingredient to be dissolved in hot water and added to the res separately. I use 80 gal reservoirs and make batches in full or half strength depending on the stage of growth and adjust PPMs by adding more water to get the strength I want
Here is the recipe for full strength veg and bud (in grams)....lemee know what u think
Calcium Nitrate. 180 g
Potassium Sulphate. 20 g
Potassium Nitrate. 100g
Potassium Phospate. 50 g
Magnesium Sulphate. 170g
Micro Nutes. 20 g

Bud
Cal Nite. 464g
Pot Sulf. 144g
No pot nite. 0
Pot Phos. 124
Mag Sulf. 300g
Micro nutes. 15g

hello there... sorry I lost my info and was unable to log in as bagabones so I had to make a new account... its been a while since ive looked at this.. it didn't get much traction...

Damen, are you in soil or hydro?

if your in hydro I must assume those measurements are to mix 160 gallons in total???

that flower mix for 80 gallons would be;
240 N
92 P
312 K (much to high)

you did mention a concentrate and so it is possible your cutting the 80 gallons in half which would be closer

assuming your cutting it in half it would yield

120N (high for flower)
46 P (good)
156K (a little high in my opinion)
Ca 146 (very high)
Mg 47 (a little high but in ratio with the K)
S 102 (way to high)

bagman · Feb 3, 2015

very high Ca and very high Sulfur will cause issues or at minimum result in frequently needed flushing

I would drop the N down below 80 and possibly lower in late flower

the sulfur and calcium could be half

bagman · Feb 3, 2015

for flowering
using only the same elements you mentioned

I would mix 80 gallons
Ca N 150 grams
mpk 80 grams
Mg S 130 grams
K-S 40 grams

and if you want a concentrate double it or even x4

this would make

N 78
P 60
K 130
Mg 40
S 75
Ca 95

again..this is the best I got limiting myself to the elemnts you mentioned.. if you could source some Mg-N and a we bit of K-Cl you could bring the S and P down more

im guessing this mix would set your EC about 1.5

anyone interested in talking about raw salts

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