Bud Size question

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4

4TheCause

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I am on my 3rd grow of a White Widow x Jack Herrer x Kush strain that an old friend created. He had to give up the grow life so I no longer have access to his wisdom. Something that has always bothered me about this strain is that I can't seem to get any good size buds off of it. The growth pattern of the buds all stay along the stem...it doesn't branch out much! I am hoping that someone can give me their opinion on what could be the reason. I know it is not the strain because I have seen buds from my old friend and they were nice. I do not know what his setup was like at home. Could it be that it requires a stronger light? I am only using a 250w HPS/MH. I must admit that the reflector is stainless steel and isn;t very reflective. I am using mylar to help as much as I can. I only have a 3 x 3 space and can let them get about 3 - 4 feet in height. My last grow, I had a few 4 foot plants and the top bud only got about 4 inches long and about the size of 50 cent piece. The plant had approximately 10 nodes and the lower nodes were all about the size of nickles or lower ones were about the size of dimes.
With that said....is it the light? Am I using poor nutes (Pure Gro Gro/Bloom)?
This strain has a great buzz and it tastes great,,,I REALLY want to get a better harvest so I don't have to grow all the time.

Thanks in advance!

4TheCause
 
4TheCause said:
the top bud only got about 4 inches long and about the size of 50 cent piece.
Click to expand...
Ouch sounds to me like u need some more powerful nutes! i mean it is never a bad thing to have too much nutes- lol as long as ur not adding them all at once. But how many plants do u have? Ur light is nearly perfect for that room size. Try growing ur next strain in DWC if u haven't already. Growing Hydro pretty much maximizes ur level of potency and yeild simply because of such high nute value. Then from there u can really tell if your strain is a good yeilder, so to speak. Most of, if not all the time, yeild will depend on strain.

U could also try some lst and hst. That would ensure ur plant has enough strength to carry the amount of buds u want. jmo and Good look, keep it green:bong::peace:
 
It most certainly is a very bad thing to give too many nutes or think 'powerful' ones will give you large buds as bud size is largely genetically determined but sure,loading up your girls with an excess will produce even bigger buds but also load them with carcinogenic phosphorous and affect the taste and how it burns.

4thecause you say your buds are smaller than your friends but he was growing and doing crosses so are you sure the seed he grew was the same as yours or he may have been growing a selected clone from that seed.

Any chance of some pics?

Your light is just fine and is capable of growing nice fat nugs on plants for sure.
 
The 250 watt light you are using is on the very fringe of being enough light.
400 watts would be better and 600 would be the best. jmo

I know nothing about the nutes you are using, I use the GH 3 part.
 
Thanks for the posts! I really appreciate it. I'll try to get everyones questions answered. First, I have a correction to make...my ferts in the above post was supposed to be Pure Blend Gro/Bloom! Also, I should have added this earlier but my initial question was turning into a novel, so I didn't want to write much more. Im using good soil... miracle grow and cow manure mix. I also prepare it with blood meal (or maybe its bone mean..I can never remember which is which) 2 weeks prior to transplaning my little ones. Then I feed them lightly with Pure Blend Gro and Superthrive until 12/12 and then I rotate between PB Bloom, Fox Farm Big Bloom, and Earth Juice.
I am positive the strain is the same as his. He persoanlly gave me seeds...plus, I picked a few out of buds through the years. I have also had this same type of luck with Whire Rhino and Bubbelicious. The buds were maybe a "little" bigger but not too much. Now that you know those 2 strains did the same, should they have done better under thos conditions? I understand that the 250 HPS proably would work...but could it be the reflector. Like I said, I bought it from a guy in the midwest that used to manufacture his own lights and used stainless steel. He prided his product on the fact that it was durable..LOL...but I wonder if it is reflective enough.
Give me 10 minutes and Ill grab a few pictures...they are 26 days into flowering.

Thanks...

4TheCause
 
Miracle grow compost and cow manure?

No wonder you are having problems mate!

Miracle Grow and cow ****!

You are using far too many nutes on a soil that already is packed with time release NPK.

I'll say again,your light is just fine as a bigger light just has to be placed further away from the plants so the light is identical anyway.

Get some decent compost and don't feed till your plants ask for it as jamming it packed with nutes just makes inferior cannabis that is actually bad for you.

Keep it simple,less is more with canna.

I'm gagging to see these pics!
 
I have used Miracle Grow and cow manure for years on my outdoor grows. Didn't start adding nutes until the plants would start turning a lighter green(about a month after being transplanted). Then would add Miracle Grow nutes. Never had a problem.

I just think it is the lights because he is only placing roughly 28 watts per sq ft where I believe the minimal should be 30 watt/sqft with the optimum being 50 watts/sqft. Just my $0.02
 
LOL...well, I understand that nutes are a controverisial topic in these forums. I actually have grown a good crop without using any ferts at all. Potency was good and the plants were healthy. But through the years, I've gotten a few starins that did better with nutes and just kept on with using them. I do a good 4 week flush prior to picking, but definaitely know the risks of the chemicals, etc.
Thanks for the comments on the light. I was nervous about that. You will get a peak at a part of my room. I soon will be able to expand to about a 6 x 4 room and will switch to a 400 or 600w light. For now, I guess I'll keep the old 250 that I am using per all of your recommendations. Thanks.
Here's the pics:
The "Comparison" pic is compared to a radio shack micro scope

Thanks

Overhead.jpg


LittleLadys.jpg


Comparison.jpg


SeeTheNodes.jpg


FarAway.jpg
 
I wanted to add....the reason I REALLY want to solve this dilema is because a friend is hooking me up with som LR auto ak47 seeds. I want them to grow to their full potential! I am not going to plant them until I know for certain what the issue is. Maybe Rockster is right, maybe it is just coincidence that the seeds I am using are not as good? Anyway...keep in mind, those pics are about 26 days flowering. They will get a little bigger but not much. Harvested and cured, it tastes really good and the buzz is nice. Just not enough quantity though. It's almost not even worth growing.
 
I gotta gree with Pcduck. And look at the pics: You are wasting most of the illumination, your plants are being starved of lumes.
I would:
1) Drop that lamp as low as it can go without burning the leaves
2) Get some lightweight boards of white expanded poly, glue Mylar on to one side, and use them as close-in reflectors around the plants to make sure none of the light is wasted.
 
Well looking at your girls I'd say you are doing nothing wrong as it is just the genetics of the plant.

The ones with buds just close to the stem are growing in their natural shape but the others have more branching and this is because your friend made a polyhybrid with a lot of phenotypical variation is all.

That reflector looks good,certainly better than mine for sure!

I'd say its defo down to the genetics and talking of which why not get some proper AK47 as you have the room because autoflowerers yield so small and I don't really know if the qualities of the AK stay intact after breeding the autoflowering gene into a strain?

And hey,4 weeks flushing is a daft thing to do as you are just starving your plants and reducing the final yield as plants need food to metabolise food so flushing for ages is a totally false ideal so just reduce feed in last 10 days tapering off to just water for the last 3-4 days and your pot will be as clean as it can be.

Leafminers idea is a good and logical one and will increase the light hitting your girls considerably.
 
I have mylar for the sides. It is fastened to corregated board for durability. I took it down because it was making my pictures turn out funky
 
Yet again i will say ur max potential will come from hydro. But i would agree duck u might wan2 upgrade before ur next grow if u've got the $$? from looking at the room you could maybe fit 2x250w? Check this out-
http://www.discount-hydro.com/productdisp.php?pid=336&navid=41

also...is your bulb always hps? or do u have a mh one too? Just checking let us know.

And from reading over your nutes they all sound pretty good. I am using them right now actually ha, Ur plants don't seem to branch out much once they form leaves and begin to grow taller? I would think strain, but...i am not for certain. Maybe...add some flourescent lighting to the side walls. I have seen a couple some set ups like that and the bud turned out great.
 
Thanks alot for everyone's help! Pleaae don't go on the space that my pics show. As stated above, when the walls are in place and other items added back into the room, I am limited (for now) to about a 4 x 3 space and can only let them get about 4 feet high. The ak seeds are free so hey...Ill take them and try it out. And at looking at GrandDaddyToke's grow journal with his auto ak's...he got a HUGE harvest for the size.
you guys are awesome...thanks alot for the help and advice.
 
After seeing the pics I definitely stand by what I said earlier.

Check out my journal to see what a 400 watt does with the same square footage.
 
Sir Smokes - I do switch from a MH to a HPS. With all of this said....and you can see how the nodes are and how the plant is growing...maybe Ill try this outside. Does this pics show the signs of maybe this plant may produce a large cola up the stem if it is left out for a longer growing season? I've never grown a strain that stays along the stem like this.
 
where is your journal pcduck? Is it one of your links in your signature
 
A 250W is just not enough light for a 12 sq ft space. You really should have a min of 5000 lumens per sq ft. A 250W is giving you less than 2200. Get more lumens in there and I would be willing to bet you would see a big increase in bud size. Even a 400W is a little bit under what you should be running.
 
Like Hemp Goddess said- you simply do not have enough light in your space to grow large buds! All the nutes in the world are not going to make your buds any bigger. You have a 3' x 3' space which equals 9 square feet. Your 250w HID (HPS) is capable of less than 2800 lumens p/sq ft. in that space. If your fixture is older and your bulb is older, you are probably operating at less than 75% efficiency.

Look at this thread I posted earlier:

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36588

I'm sorry, but you are not going to get decent results for 6 plants on a 250w HID in a 9' x 9' area. You should consider upgrading your lighting now to maximize this grow and reduce the need as you said to "constantly grow".

Just my thoughts. Good luck to you.
 
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