When to Flower

I was looking through some threads and I've seen alot of experienced growers saying that they flower a plant based on size rather than age or sexual maturity- when it's the right size for their grow space with anticipated stretch.

But those same people also say that a plant will not show sex (or start to flower) until sexually mature :confused2: - isn't that contradictory?

By putting it into 12/12 to "induce" flowering before it is sexually mature- are you just slowing down growth by limiting photosynthesis until the plant reaches the age where it is mature and will begin to flower? The result being limiting growth (height), but not inducing flowering?

I've been contradicted in other threads by posters saying that different strains flower at different times when put into 12/12. Personally, I have not experienced this, but I always wait until my plants are loaded with pre-flowers before making the switch to 12/12 so that they are all sexually mature at the switch.

So I guess the question is- which is right-

you can force a plant to flower regardless of it's age by controlling the lighting schedule

-------OR-------

a plant will not flower until it is sexually mature


There is still plenty of debate over florigen production and the phytochrome pigment. I'm actually more curious about personal opinion and experience.

Thanks.

i don't know if theres a right , or wrong answer here BB...

personal experience , eh? ok, i'll bite...

some i do, some i don't...i can't really explain why. it's something i'm looking at when i switch it.(height?) not sure.(pre-flowers?) not sure...

>>>someone elses idea of sexually mature, may be different from your own. see what i mean? so it's sorta a loaded question...<<<

don't mind me brother, i just woke up.lol...court today...(looks like there may be some court going on here)...lol...lol...

A plant will not flower unless it is sexually mature.

They are not talking about clones when they grow by height? My clones are all sexually mature and capable of flowering at any height/size.

When I have grown a regular seed from 12/12 it still did not flower until sexually mature. I gauge sexual maturity by alternating nodes.

BBFan said:

I was looking through some threads and I've seen alot of experienced growers saying that they flower a plant based on size rather than age or sexual maturity- when it's the right size for their grow space with anticipated stretch.
But those same people also say that a plant will not show sex (or start to flower) until sexually mature :confused2: - isn't that contradictory?
By putting it into 12/12 to "induce" flowering before it is sexually mature- are you just slowing down growth by limiting photosynthesis until the plant reaches the age where it is mature and will begin to flower? The result being limiting growth (height), but not inducing flowering?
I've been contradicted in other threads by posters saying that different strains flower at different times when put into 12/12. Personally, I have not experienced this, but I always wait until my plants are loaded with pre-flowers before making the switch to 12/12 so that they are all sexually mature at the switch.
So I guess the question is- which is right-
you can force a plant to flower regardless of it's age by controlling the lighting schedule
-------OR-------
a plant will not flower until it is sexually mature
There is still plenty of debate over florigen production and the phytochrome pigment. I'm actually more curious about personal opinion and experience.
Thanks.

Click to expand...

Good one! :goodposting:
I’ve got a feeling this’ll be a few pages long before it run its course.
I’m interested to see opinions, though I’m sure it’s not the first time this question’s been asked.

yeah, are we talking about seed, or clone? cause, now we have a difference...

when it's the right size for their grow space with anticipated stretch.
But those same people also say that a plant will not show sex (or start to flower) until sexually mature :confused2: - isn't that contradictory?

Click to expand...

I'm just going to put in my experience.
Both are true.
I'll post both ways I've seen different things happen.
None had pre-flowers or alternating nodes.

12/12 from seed. No Veg.
Sat dom. Had one veg 7 weeks before flowering.
50/50 Indy/Sat hybrid vegged 3 week then started flowering So on mark
Indy dom sam as 50/50 hybrid

Veg time. of 4-5 weeks
Sat dom vegged a bit (2-3 weeks) after switching to 12/12 then popped a stretch and commenced flowering.
50/50 hybrid popped its stretch right on mark
Indy dom right on mark

This confused me. Until I started looking at "natural enviro" of most sativas. The heavy ones are ussually more "equitorial" which the day night schedule stays close to the same about 12/12 most of the time. Why some you have to step down to even more dark time to get them to finish up. Indy doms have more pronounced day/night schedules. Made me think that both are true statements and they are really for a rule of thumb for indoor growers to go by. It works and that will give you the best results. But if you play around a bit you'll notice that there are many things going on as you study each strain you grow. Like Sativas keep on growing vigorous roots systems even while flowering while indy doms don't.

I flip my seed starts at week 5-6. If I find a "keeper" I will play with the clones to see what that particular strain likes the best. Like the NL#5xHaze I'm about to start I will only let have about 2-3 weeks of veg max. as it does have a 4-5x stretch.

Find what works just use all these "rules" as a guideline and not as gospel. Each strain will prefer something different. Get your grow dialed in for the strains you work with.

These are just my experiences. I am not a botanist or anything...I just play around till I find what dials my grow for the strains I'm working with. It's all about vigorous overall health. Basically I'm saying I have found that some strains are mor photoperiod dependant than others. If that wasn't true then how come too much nitrogen and stuff can porolong flowering. I think photoperiod is the main thing, but other factors come into play with each strain.

well I do go by height and maturity..course by the time my plants are 24" and have been cloned a time or two so they are always mature when I flower them. I do not clone or flower before I know the sex...

2Dog said:

well I do go by height and maturity..course by the time my plants are 24" and have been cloned a time or two so they are always mature when I flower them. I do not clone or flower before I know the sex...

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Hey 2dog- how've you been?

You were one of the posters that got me wondering about this. I understood you to mean that you flip at a certain height, not necessarily when sexually mature.

IRISH said:

yeah, are we talking about seed, or clone? cause, now we have a difference...

Click to expand...

Hey Irish- Good luck with court today.

I'm talking about from seed, not clone.

oh no..lol I look for both. guess I forgot to mention that. sex and height. I am pretty good thanks hope u r well. it is early and cold lol...I like mine to be big when I flower otherwise it isnt worth it to me. also being a cloner I dont like wasting time until I knwo the sex, my moby **** tood forever to show sex like 9 weeks...I was getting weirded out..lol.

Mutt said:

I flip my seed starts at week 5-6. If I find a "keeper" I will play with the clones to see what that particular strain likes the best. Like the NL#5xHaze I'm about to start I will only let have about 2-3 weeks of veg max. as it does have a 4-5x stretch.

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Great Info Mutt. Thanks.

When you flip at week 5-6, are you always showing preflowers?

And for the NL#5xHaze, does it take longer for flowers to develop?

2Dog said:

my moby **** tood forever to show sex like 9 weeks...I was getting weirded out..lol.

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Thanks 2dog-
Obviously the filter doesn't like your strain .

Is that a sativa dominant or indy dominant strain? Maybe some of the info from Mutt's post applies.

pcduck said:

A plant will not flower unless it is sexually mature.

When I have grown a regular seed from 12/12 it still did not flower until sexually mature. I gauge sexual maturity by alternating nodes.

Click to expand...

Thanks PCDuck-

That's what I've always thought too. But then my next question is, are we slowing growth by limiting photosynthesis when we start 12/12 too early.

Again, talking seeds from regular (non-fem, not autos) strains.

I am thinking hybrid more indica but this is what it says..It is tall but not very bushy....

Sex : Feminized
Type : Indica, Sativa
Flowering : Photoperiod Genetics : Haze x White Widow
Flowering Time : Medium, Long Outdoor Harvest : 60-70 Days
Height : Medium, Tall THC Level : 16-20%
Characteristics : powerful stone and is pretty mould resistant


The Dinafem Seeds Moby **** is one of the strongest and very typical sativa. It is the result of crossing the 2 best clones of our Mother Plants, a sativa with an indica. Dinafem Seeds Moby **** is our most psychoactive strain and it produces a great hunger and thirst. It is advisable to eat and drink well, to counteract its effects due to this increase in appetite. The sativa has a wood, pine, incense aroma, and the indica type is sweeter. To develop the Moby **** to its full potential, it needs a lot of light. Harvested outdoors, it needs full sun, plentiful soil and water and widely spacing the trees 3 m apart will ensure trees which grow to 3 m tall and a harvest of up to 1500 grams in optimal conditions, it is mould resistant. The flowering period is quite fast indoors (60/70 days).

Moby **** has a mild scent when growing but don&#8217;t be fooled, it has a powerful stone. The combined genetics of Haze and White Widow make the Moby **** plant quite strong. Moby **** is a psychoactive plant, with a THC concentration of up to 21% and presence of THCV, a compound from equatorial sativa and which occurs in response to solar ultraviolet rays and which enhances the effect of THC to such an extent that with 2 or 3 Cal, the effects of Moby **** are incredibly powerful.

2dog-
So I wonder if you gave it a longer dark period, as Mutt suggests, it would have started earlier?

Hey BB,
my experiences are similar to Mutt's. I would like to add imo when doing 12/12 from seed, the time that they begin to develop flowers may be less than waiting for preflowers or alternating nodes. This is because you are waiting for visual clues, and the switch was already internally turned on. This is where some of the lag comes from. The hazelope and stink bomb were flowered at about 8", also about 4 weeks veg. There were no visual signs of preflowers or alternating nodes. I was expecting the haze to be dominant and expecting 5x stretch in the early part of flowering. So I flipped them, within a week, when they started showing sex, simultaneously began alternating nodes. Again, I believe Mutt is correct about the genetics and various strains having pronounced differences. Goals may have a part of the equation. Some people want small plants that flower as quickly as possible, and others want the biggest plant possible.

A plant will not flower until sexually mature.

Putting a young plant into 12/12 makes the plant think it is at its flowering time and will start to fill itself with sexual maturity hormones.

This is not instant but takes a while to actually hit its peak, pre flowers will be seen and alternating nodes.

Then flowering will start.

All you are doing is making the plant think it is the correct time and instead of growing large it will start flowering.

Clones are different.

eace:

umbra said:

Hey BB,
my experiences are similar to Mutt's. I would like to add imo when doing 12/12 from seed, the time that they begin to develop flowers may be less than waiting for preflowers or alternating nodes. This is because you are waiting for visual clues, and the switch was already internally turned on. This is where some of the lag comes from. The hazelope and stink bomb were flowered at about 8", also about 4 weeks veg. There were no visual signs of preflowers or alternating nodes. I was expecting the haze to be dominant and expecting 5x stretch in the early part of flowering. So I flipped them, within a week, when they started showing sex, simultaneously began alternating nodes. Again, I believe Mutt is correct about the genetics and various strains having pronounced differences. Goals may have a part of the equation. Some people want small plants that flower as quickly as possible, and others want the biggest plant possible.

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Hey Umbra-
Hope you're doing good today- thanks for the input.

HippyInEngland said:

A plant will not flower until sexually mature.

Putting a young plant into 12/12 makes the plant think it is at its flowering time and will start to fill itself with sexual maturity hormones.

This is not instant but takes a while to actually hit its peak, pre flowers will be seen and alternating nodes.

Then flowering will start.

All you are doing is making the plant think it is the correct time and instead of growing large it will start flowering

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Hey there Hippy! Hope your feeling better.

Guys-

Am I misreading, or is the consensus that we can force flowering (even if limited to certain strains)?

We know that MJ is classified as a short-day plant (though I'm not sure about ruderalis). There has been a lot of discussion in the scientific community about florigens- some believe they exist, others don't (at least what I've been able to read). But we know phytochromes exist and they do influence flowering.

What I read from all of you guys (no offense 2dog) is that we can speed up the sexual maturity process- yes it won't flower until sexually mature- but we're getting them to the point of sexually maturity quicker than if they had been left on 24/0 or 18/6.

Is that the consensus?

lol I would trust what the experts are saying I have never tried to speed it up. IMO why not just do autos?

BBFan said:

Thanks PCDuck-

That's what I've always thought too. But then my next question is, are we slowing growth by limiting photosynthesis when we start 12/12 too early.

Again, talking seeds from regular (non-fem, not autos) strains.

Click to expand...

I believe that anytime you limit photosynthesis you are limiting growth. But in order to get the flowers we desire we must limit photosynthesis.

This is an interesting thread! The only thing I have to add to it is, yes, when you limit time of lighting you are limiting growth (slowing growth by limiting photosythesis was the way you phrased it)

Mutt; interesting conclusions.

I usually wait to see pre-flowers or alternating nodes, unless I have reached 18" before then, because I know that I don't have the head room, if it decides to stretch 3x's it's hieght. And a couple of times I have had to cut branches or bend and tie to keep plants out of the lights.

I don't know if I added anything valuable to this thread at all...just my 2 cents. I'm anxious to read more responces though...very interesting!