180 watt LED lights panel

and I respect your decision/choice and appreciate your situation. (buying ballasts/bulbs,ect).
And am not trying to change your mind, choice.
I simply wanted to point out, for the benefit of all, the discrepancies/misconceptions that are too often quoted as fact w/ lighting.

Hick said:

and I respect your decision/choice and appreciate your situation. (buying ballasts/bulbs,ect).
And am not trying to change your mind, choice.
I simply wanted to point out, for the benefit of all, the discrepancies/misconceptions that are too often quoted as fact w/ lighting.

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No I hear ya man, its like the kids on Xdox Live. Just running they mouth ruining a good time.

Not you...

But the kids who get on here and spread TOTAL Misinformation. I think they do it on purpose to get us going.

Plus its like I said I may grab up one HPS just to kick some high red spec lumens on my flowering girls. Too soon for that now though, if the gods decide this time isnt the time I dont wanna be out the HID money.

AlkaloidContent said:

Well HIck I appreciate the link unfortunately I must respectfully decline. Yes we are all aware of the whole HID, CFL, LED lighting argument.

We all know HID is the best way to go. As I've said previously ALL factors involved lead those to the lighting they need. Alot of the factors that you dont consider for EVERYONE is perhaps a similar one to mine.

I cannot buy the most usefull HID ballasts in my area and WILL NOT order them online. PERIOD. Plus they are only 75W you must purchase HPS, MH ballast separate and they dont come with a bulb. For $70. Now I know 100-150 Lumens per watt HID and that is heaven compared to 60-70 Lumens per watt. IT TRULY IS....but given the entire picture for a grower HID really may NOT be the BEST answer. FOR THE SPECIFIC SITUATION.

However Sir I respect you as I do Nouvelle for your loyalty to HID however in this day and age one must think of alternative routes.

Im sure eyebrows rose when someone shouted "HEY! Im gonna take this plant and grow it inside, then Im gonna cut the top of it off, tie down all the branches, grow it through a screen, matter of fact Im gonna invent a machine that uses just water and no dirt." Im sure tempers flared when it began to work too....

I think you get my point...

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You are operating under some misconceptions that we were just trying to correct--not just for you, but for new growers reading this. The fact of the matter is that CFLs run substantially hotter than a HPS of like lumens and that, regardless of temps, plants need a continual supply of fresh air.

The Hemp Goddess said:

You are operating under some misconceptions that we were just trying to correct--not just for you, but for new growers reading this. The fact of the matter is that CFLs run substantially hotter than a HPS of like lumens and that, regardless of temps, plants need a continual supply of fresh air.

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OMG no your absolutely right Goddess the facts are the facts, but we cannot sit and here and assume to knwo everyones specific situations. CFLs may just be the best way to go. HID is always the best if possible.

However we musnt allow for any bias on the matter. I never claim CFLs are better, run cooler, run cheaper, etc. I just state they are whats best for my situation.

The facts must be told...but the inspiration to improvise must be given as well.


Plus isnt a constant exchange of fresh air needed anyway? Lighting wouldnt affect that to begin with.

Have you considered T5s over CFLs (or LEDs)? They have a lower profile, spread the light better, have the same lumen per watt ratio as a MH and actually do run cool? This is all I use to veg with now. I have given my 400W MH lights away.

Regardless of circumstances, I believe that if you can put a ton of CFLs in a space, you are still better off with a small HPS--both heat wise and money wise. A 150W HPS can take the place of 10 23W CFLs and a 250W HPS can take the place of 18 23W CFLs

The Hemp Goddess said:

Have you considered T5s over CFLs (or LEDs)? They have a lower profile, spread the light better, have the same lumen per watt ratio as a MH and actually do run cool? This is all I use to veg with now. I have given my 400W MH lights away.

Regardless of circumstances, I believe that if you can put a ton of CFLs in a space, you are still better off with a small HPS--both heat wise and money wise. A 150W HPS can take the place of 10 23W CFLs and a 250W HPS can take the place of 18 23W CFLs

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AH! See I know this to be true. It hurts but I WILL NOT purchase lights online. Anything else, not lights. Lights and grow systems are the hottest things one could ever purchase online. The government can, will, and does see what is being shipped to what addresses in the least. Now I am aware a 250W HID light is something that is ordered every 10 mins online and less than .0000000000000001% of people get busted from these purchases alone, I am not just some random person where I live ok. I have been caught with high profile substances before and proudly took a stand in my community for Synthetic THC, before things got out of hand with it, and for MJ. I have had a few grow ops that police have come shortly after tossing the, well a couple times teenage plants. Roommates claiming I was growing MJ. All small of grows course and have had alot of successful small grow ops so this isnt my first ride. I just do not think having a HID light shipped to my house would be the smartest idea as opposed to a couple boxes of CFLs.


However I have not thought of the T5 and I guess I could then change out the bulbs for spectrum balance.

I and millions of others have growing gear and seeds shipped to our homes with absolutely no problems. I have been growing off and on for over 30 years, but steadily for the last 12 or so inside. In that time, I have had at least 10 light systems delivered, nutrients, hydro equipment, fans, etc, and dozens of seed orders. Ordering online is probably the safest part of growing. As you have seen, the greatest threat to growing is letting others know.

T5s kick butt. They put out 92 lumens per watt and really give you nice tight internodal growth. They are quickly becoming the light of choice for many growers. I think I started using them 3-4 years or so ago. Couldn't believe how well they worked and how much cooler they were than a MH. I replaced a 400W MH with 216w of T5s and get just as good or better growth than I did with the MH.

I just started growing my own for personal medical use; so we are talking about growing 2-4 plants in a 30" x 30"x 6' space.
The claim that LED manufactuers make is that a 180 watt LED panel has the ability to produce an intense light that is more energy efficient than an HPS light. The 11 band wave length is:
11+ Wavelengths of Color Output: 760nm, 740nm, 720nm, 660nm, 630nm, 615nm-480nm, 460nm, 440nm, 415nm, 380nm
I welcome your ideas on what light you would use in this situation.

Hey THG I checked out those T5 setups but honestly I dont see where the same dollar amount spent on CFL and hoods etc came to any real difference.

Maybe I just havent seen the right light or need to dig further.

What I found was a 215W 4 bulb T5 system with ballast. 3 Footer.
It was almost $300. Now 215x90=19,350 Lumens.

Where as I can purchase 8 1900/6400K Lumen and 8 2100 Lumen/2100K CFL for about $30 then I would need
3 $10 Hoods. So now $60. 9 Y Adapters=$20 and 3 extensions=$3.50. SO with that I can hold 12 1900-2100 Lumen CFLs in my grow if it were a 50/50 mix of spectrum it would total 24,000 Lumens almost enough for 6 sq ft. All for $83.50 give or take a few. And that still leaves 4 more bulbs so another 5,000 or more lumens.

An honestly I am seeing some of the best internodal spacing on my babies keeping my CFLs about and inch away. We're talkin millimeters.

I hve a 4 bulb 4 foot HO T5 setup that cost me around 75 bucks...it puts out 20,000 lumens (5000 a tube) and has been the best lighting investment I hve ever made. Who the helll is trying to charge you 300 clams AC?

Give me a Cpl minutes and I will dig up a link for ya....

Okay looks like prices went up a bit but here is a 4 bulb HO T5 setup for 127 bucks shipped....6500k a bulb.

eBay item number 330522557843

Hamster Lewis said:

Okay looks like prices went up a bit but here is a 4 bulb HO T5 setup for 127 bucks shipped....6500k a bulb.

eBay item number 330522557843

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18,800 Lumens aint bad. Although it is a foot longer than I could use Im sure I could find some 3' systems. I also went to my local Lows and did some researching for the HID and I do see that the HPS they have now, although still couldnt accept MH swap it did come with the bulb. Still a 70 watter too. So with HID pushing 140 Lumens per watt were looking at 9,800 Lumens of light for just that. Cost was about $80. I may even grab just one of those to supplement my CFLs in the flower stage. HPS light really is good for your yield. But IDK we'll see I think just grabbing CFLs and hoods as they get bigger and require more sq ft of lighting and intensity. Than to invest all up front in just one lighting system. Then get the HPS up when I start flower. Should be a bright little box eh?

AlkaloidContent said:

Hey THG I checked out those T5 setups but honestly I dont see where the same dollar amount spent on CFL and hoods etc came to any real difference.

Maybe I just havent seen the right light or need to dig further.

What I found was a 215W 4 bulb T5 system with ballast. 3 Footer.
It was almost $300. Now 215x90=19,350 Lumens.

Where as I can purchase 8 1900/6400K Lumen and 8 2100 Lumen/2100K CFL for about $30 then I would need
3 $10 Hoods. So now $60. 9 Y Adapters=$20 and 3 extensions=$3.50. SO with that I can hold 12 1900-2100 Lumen CFLs in my grow if it were a 50/50 mix of spectrum it would total 24,000 Lumens almost enough for 6 sq ft. All for $83.50 give or take a few. And that still leaves 4 more bulbs so another 5,000 or more lumens.

An honestly I am seeing some of the best internodal spacing on my babies keeping my CFLs about and inch away. We're talkin millimeters.

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I'm not talking about initial cost (although you can get t5s way cheaper than that), but what you put out for electricity every single month (and the extra heat that CFLs put out). The CFLs put out about 62 lumens per watt, the T5s put out about 92 lumens per watt. So every single month, your electricity bill will be 30% higher with CFLs than it would be with T5s (or HPS). Twelve 23W CFLs use 276 watts and emit 18,000 lumens and a lot of heat. A 4' 4 bulb T5 uses 216W and emits 20,000 lumens. You simply get more light for less money.

The Hemp Goddess said:

I'm not talking about initial cost (although you can get t5s way cheaper than that), but what you put out for electricity every single month (and the extra heat that CFLs put out). The CFLs put out about 62 lumens per watt, the T5s put out about 92 lumens per watt. So every single month, your electricity bill will be 30% higher with CFLs than it would be with T5s (or HPS). Twelve 23W CFLs use 276 watts and emit 18,000 lumens and a lot of heat. A 4' 4 bulb T5 uses 216W and emits 20,000 lumens. You simply get more light for less money.

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No I know exactly what you mean THG dont get me wrong. However I dont understand your math for the CFL the 23W 2700K Spectrum CFLs right at Lows, run 2100 lumens a piece. Thats over 25,000 Lumens not 18.

Now granted the 6500K run only 1900, but I will be mixing up to a 75/25 ratio reds/blues, and will be building up to even using that many bulbs. I mean right now I have 5 babies in 1 - 10" pot they are only about a week and are only using 2 - 23W bulbs. I will only be adding maybe 2 more and that should hold for another couple weesk because the size of the plants I can get them all in a much smaller space to have to light. This to me is the CFL benefit. Only having to supply it with just what it needs space wise. Acting as loss-prevention in the case of, well, anything.

If I go buy one of these T5 systems. They will draw all wattage from the get go regardless of if not the bulbs are using it. Thats what the ballast does. Plus this whole damn house still has 60W In-cans. These will be going very soon, which should balance out the cost of lighting to begin with. 200-300 watts a month isnt that much, and then you consider a 23W actual watt pushes the same light of a 60W In-can. So basically Im gonna cut overall light use wattage by almost a third. Then tack on 200-300 Watts again. In this house it will balance. Again works for the exact situation.

In regards to CFL I can purchase them over the cylce of the grow and still have some gas money.

I will just go on record saying I know that CFL isnt the most economical, but I never claimed it was, I calimed it is good for reasons, and then some more reasons, thats all.

Oh and BTW THG I wasnt being demeaning when I quoted pricing, I will admit I didnt go as far as one would think. I googled checked some popular sites, popular brands, etc. Didnt check the EB or CL admittedly.

Thank you for the link though Hamster and THG I actually think I may get a small HPS to aid in flowering. Couldnt hurt.

I didn't take it at all in a demeaning way. I am having quite a fun time volleying ideas back and forth with you.

Me too (hug)

darkpathus said:

I just started growing my own for personal medical use; so we are talking about growing 2-4 plants in a 30" x 30"x 6' space.
The claim that LED manufactuers make is that a 180 watt LED panel has the ability to produce an intense light that is more energy efficient than an HPS light. The 11 band wave length is:
11+ Wavelengths of Color Output: 760nm, 740nm, 720nm, 660nm, 630nm, 615nm-480nm, 460nm, 440nm, 415nm, 380nm
I welcome your ideas on what light you would use in this situation.

Click to expand...

Hey Darkpathus- looks like your thread got hijacked.

I've never grown with led's so I can't comment on their effectiveness. What I can say is that anything heading into the near-infrared range (above 700nm) does little to drive photosynthesis.

While there is little green spectrum in the output above (that's a good thing), I'm surprised they went so high with the red.

Personally, I think a 400 watt HID set up would give you the best results with only 2 plants or even 1 plant in a scrog- but again, I don't know anything about growing with led's.

Good luck.

I'm setting up a system that that will use two Haight Solid-State PPF-800 LED Grow lights First run will be a test before I buy the second. I've been thinking about this for some time and keeping my eye on the technology and it looks to me like it may be ready for prime time but the proof is in the pudding of mixed metaphors. The type of meter that would allow quantitative comparison is way too expensive. So growroom empiricism it will have to be for awhile.

Haight Solid-State PPF-800 LED Grow lights : hxxp://shop.haightsolidstate.com/Haight-Solid-State-PPF-800-LED-Grow-light-PPF-800.htm

Dark, We just finished a grow using 2 of the 90 watt UFO LED lights. Upside, they work very well for vegging, we were able to keep them close without burning the tops and had very nice healthy plants with nice tight node growth. Easy to control temps and very energy efficient. In a short they were not very impressive for flowering, light whispy buds and small. If we had used our 400 watt HPS we would have had a much lager yield. We have grown same strains under both LED and HPS and their is no comparison, in yield HPS wins hands down. I think until they can figure out how to introduce a lumen aspect to their color bands then they are only good at this time for vegging...take care..

After reading Tokies post I went back to HaightSolidState to check what they said about the panel I bought. What I recall was that it was good for all stages of growth. But it turns out that they now have a revision:

New 180W LED Grow Light
The ideal size for both vegetative growth and flowering ...

So I'm about to start work on a light box that adds HO T5s while wishing I had done all T5s from the start. So it goes.

And thanks for the heads up Sir Tokie