Cannabis two week old seedling trouble, please help!

[mortaion]

Hi

Two weeks ago I've started germinating three cannabis seeds from SensiSeeds, my first growth ever. They all germinted quite nice and fast, once the roots were 1cm I've burried them in the soil 3mm deep. Several days later there were amazing results, extremely fast increase in height and the first real leaves were showing, soon followed by a second set of leaves. Whilst the second set of leaves were developping I could notice the first set of leaves (the first two) both losing greenness and becoming slightly yellow, I did my research and decided it was due Nitrogen deficiency although I wasn't sure. The soil was universal potting soil with an NPK rating of 14-16-18 specially made for seedlings. The next the day the leaves became more yellow, I decided it was time to fertilize , buy some liquid nitrogen fertlizer (7-3-5) which also had all the trace elements. I did like the instruction said, 20ml each 2500ml and I watered the plants.
Now the next day, the yellowness is still increasing on all three plants.

What do you think? Should I just wait or should I do something else? (BTW: I am not 100% sure its Nitrogen Deficiency)

Extra technical information;
-3 Plants under 125w blue 6500K CFL with reflector..
-12 days since germination.
-A lot of ventilation (three mini computer fans).
-Temperature always between 75F-85F with an average of 80F.
-Seeds: Femenised Early Skunk Sensi Seeds.
-Humidity always between 35-70 with an average of 40.
-18h CFL lights, 6h full dark.
-Watering throughly till some drops out from bottom every 2,5day's. (I think I sometimes slightly overwater them, not much)
-Water I give them is controlled bottled water with a pH of 6.8
-Anythingelse you need to know? Pictures: hXXp://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/671952-cannabis-two-week-old-seedling.html#post9224837
P.S: Sorry for my english , I am from Sweden

Regards

 

[pcduck]

Welcome to the Passion:ciao:

Pictures need to be posted on our site here. Many here including me will not go off site to look at pics.

Just water with plain water. By the NPK rating of your soil you should have plenty of nutes for 30 days or so.

 

[mortaion]

I don't think that watering will help, the first set of leaves are dying and I can't post pictures in this forum if they aren't online availble (URL) which I don't have.

I found a similiar picture on the internet: It looked exactly like this two days ago : https://www.google.be/search?q=yell...544-yellowing-leaves-seedlings.html;3647;2735

right now it's even more yellow and I think it's dying, Please help

 

[Rosebud]

Hi, and your English is just fine.

Seedlings don't really need food at two weeks. All you can do now wait.

It sounds like your watering fine, water till it runs out the bottom, then wait till dry to water again.

 

[mortaion]

Any idea what could be the cause of the yellowing?

 

[Kb435]

K I also am on my first session little later in the game and several books down I'm learning to leave my plants alone. First off never fertilize seedlings because over doing it is going to kill them. No matter what if u do use fertilizer on seedlings use like a tenth of what they say or you can burn the crap out of them and as they grow older u will c which plants like how much fertilizer and how often. Start small though and watch how each one individually reacts when they get into veg growth and eventually bloom. Good luck I hope you the best also could just be a bad seed but you can alway clone when you figure out which plants carry the best genetics.

 

[pcduck]

Any idea what could be the cause of the yellowing?

Lock out from to many nutes and/or pH being off after adding the nutes.

 

[mortaion]

Thank you for your reaction but honestly, If I don't do something the first true leaves will defently die, the others will probably follow, followed by the whole plant, is there really no one that can help me?

 

[skullcandy]

have you tried adding iron cal/mag

 

[mortaion]

No, but that's in the fertilizer that I gave them yesterday, how long does it take before I can see signs of improved after adding fertilizer?

 

[Hushpuppy]

Hey I can't swear to it but it sounds like you have burned the roots of the seedlings by planting them in prenuted soil. I'm not sure how much you know about growing MJ but MJ seedlings do not like having nutrients available(unless it is light organic soil). When MJ first germs, it produces the two little round leaves called "cotyledons". These are the food supply for the seedling while its roots develop and toughen-up. Typically, for the first 2-3weeks, you shouldn't introduce ANY nutrients to the soil or seedlings as they are utilizing the nutrients in the cotyledons. If chemical nutrients are added before the roots are ready, the harshness of the chemicals will burn up the tender roots of the seedlings. Most of us here typically will start seedlings in soil or medium that is nutrient neutral and then not add any nutes until the cotyledons begin to die off(as they will do when the plant is done with them).

You said you put yours in prenuted soil that was made for seedlings but it has a very high number for the NPK value. What kind of soil is it? Do you intend to stay with chemical feeding or do you want to go with organic feeding?

I suspect that your soil and subsequent fertilizer addition is frying the roots of the seedlings. I would suggest that you "flush" them with straight water to remove most of the nutrients. Do that by slowly pouring 3x the amount of water as you have soil, through the soil and allow it to drain away.(if your pots are 1liter pots then you would use 3 liters of straight water poured slowly through the soil so that it washes away the nutes in the soil.)
I can't swear that they will survive at this point but they may. Once they are done draining the water that was flushed through them, let them set under their lights and dry out some before watering again. Do not feed them anything for at least 1 week and try to not overwater them. You want the soil to stay just moist, not wet or dry.

They will most likely continue to get worse for a few more days before they get better. I would wait about 10 days before adding any nutrients to them as there should still be a small amount of nutrients left in the soil for them. At 10 days, if they look like they are improving then you can get some nutrients that are formulated for MJ and feed them about 1/4 of what the nutrients call for. Feed them like this for 10 days, giving them nutes with every watering. If they respond well, then after 10 days you can double the amount of nutes mixed into your water, and continue for another 10 days. By this time they should be back to full vegetative growth and you can double the level of nutes again, which should bring you to full dosage feeding.

Good luck my friend I hope they survive for you

 

[mortaion]

Wow thanks that's what I call some good authority information and instructions!
But when I was searching for soil in the gardenshop, I told them I was going to germinate seeds and I need some soil to germinate tomato seeds (Obviously I couldn't say it was MJ) so they recommended me the soil they gave me , with NPK 14-16-18. Leafs started to get yellow so I fertilized them but I will let the ground first dry out before flushing because otherwise the soil will be too wet for a too long time. Over two day's ill flush them, thanks for the advice, in the past 24h, both leaves yellowed even more but the new ones are looking perfectly healthy and it looks like the growth increased a little since fertilisation.

Thanks!

 

[pcduck]

When HushPuppy mentioned flushing it was to remove the excess nutes. Watering a little bit over time is not going to flush out the excess nutes. Only large amounts of water applied all at once will do this. My plants would rather have a bunch of water at once, then allowed to dry. Then to have the soil constantly wet.

Once the leaves are damaged they will not repair themselves, a grower looks at the new growth to check for the health of the plant.

 

[Rosebud]

a grower looks at the new growth to check for the health of the plant.---pcduck..

That statement needs to be a sticky. So true.

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

I think that Hushpuppy has nailed it. I cannot imagine a seed starting mixture having a NPK of 14-16-18. That is far too hot to start any kind of seeds in, I don't care what they were. When starting seedlings, you want soil with virtually no nutrients in it. In fact, you should really never use prenuted soil with MJ--things like miracle grow just do not give cannabis what it needs and you have no control whatsoever over how many nutes it is fed.

Plants need no nutes whatsoever for 2-3 weeks and then, you start nutes at a very low level and work up. Unfortunately, I doubt that there is any saving them. I think the initial yellowing was causwed by nute burn and adding nutrients just made the situation worse. Start with soil with NO nutes, and use nutes formulated for mj like General Hydroponics, Fox Farm, etc, etc.

Flushing isn't a process that you do over 2 days. Flushing is a big wash of water all at once to flush excess nutrients out. Watering a lot over 2 days is just going to activate more of those time released nutrients. If your soil mixture does not have good drainage properties, you are not going to be able to flush them.

You should be running your lights 24/7 and you will need more ventilation. Three mini computer fans is not really very much air. You need to exhaust old air out and bring new air in. How many lumens does your light put out?

Please no direct links. I don't think anyone is going to go to RIU to look at pics. Can you post them here? They will need to be resized.

 

[mortaion]

Looks like there's a clear misundersanding.
I will wait two days BEFORE I am going to flush (3l all at once) because right now the soil is still wet/moist because I watered them two days ago and I don't want to overwater the or cause rootrot that's why i'll wait two days before I will flush them.

Secondly the new set of leaves ('three leaves in one' at once on both sides) are developping and are looking extremely green and healthy whilst the two old ones are decreasing, yellowing even more and even becoming slight brownish, they are lost. I hope those two leaves will "attract the attention of the plant and that the plant will first destroy and stock his excess nutes in them and they hold it out for two days" so the plant doesn't has to "choose a new victim, the newer set of leaves". I think they will survive it if both leaves last two days.

Thirdly , the signs of the plant also look extremely hard on a Potassium deficiency (even more then on a N deficiency) the affected leaves are curled upwards, yellowing from tips to knot.

When I did some research on pictures of nutrient burns , I don't think they look like the situation is right now so I still am not sure if it really are an excess nutrients that are causing the burn. Why did the plant wasn't effected for the first 7days? Why did the 7th day the plant looked extremely healthy and green and only from on the 9th day, just when it was producing a new set of leaves I could some yellowing? If it was a nutrient burn shouldn't it affected the plant a lot earlier?

Anyhow I think it's a good idea to flush them like you guy's mentioned. The computer fans are actually doing a great job, If I use a real fan it will bend the stems of the plant and cause too much air circulation. When they entered vegatative state over several weeks I will place the real fan.

By the way, the 125w CFL 6500K lamp with reflector is hanging 3" away and puts out 8500lumens, soon an additional 20w CFL lamp will be placed.

Tried to resize pictures etc.. but it's not possible to easily post pictures on marijuanapassions, did my best. (If you aren't a RIU member you could maybe check http://forum.grasscity.com/sick-plants-problems/1225455-two-week-old-seedling-sick-need-help.html but only if you want to, just trying to give you guys extra information)

Any more advice?

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

At 2 weeks with the soil you planted them in, they can't be deficient in anything. It really doesn't matter if the soil is wet when you flush them. The purpose of a flush is to try and wash all the excess nutrients out of the soil. Actually since they are still small, I would repot them in better soil. I cannot tell you exactly why they seem to have started out okay and then went south, except that it probably took the time release nutes that long to start to time release. Regardless, that soil is too hot for baby seedlings, it does not have correct proportion of nutes for healthy vegetative growth, and you will probably continue to have problems because you cannot contrl the release of nutes or control how much of everything the plant is getting.

If you have new healthy growth, the plant will most likely survive, but that doesn't mean that it is healthy. We are passing on info that we have learned from growing hundreds and hundreds of plants. We have your best interests at heart. Our only goal is to help you grow and harvest great bud.

Your light is good for a space a little less than 3 sq ft, which is like 18" x 24". That light will do for a while, but really soon, you are going to need way more light. You want a minimum of 3000 lumens per sq ft for vegging and a minimum of 5000 when flowering. You might want to look into a HPS. CFLs are the most expensive lights to use for growing, putting out the least lumens per watt. And when you get as many as you need, they generally run hotter than a HPS.

You need to different kinds of fans in your space. You want a fan to move the air around inside your space--you do want the stems to move some as this strengthens them. You also need a decent exhaust fan. Plants need a continual supply of fresh air all the time the lights are on.

Please, no direct links--they can lead anywhere and most peeps are not comfortable with that.

 

[mortaion]

I got pictures! Please help me further, I really appreciate all help

Please everyone who is reading this give your opinion! :icon_smile: Let's try to save some greatful plants

Note: Only one fan is on the photo's, I've tooken the other ones away, but there are three medium sized computer fans producing lot of air circulation, a new fan will be installed next week. Max temperature ever recorded was 86F

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

It really looks like nute burn. The tips of the new growth looks like it is a little crispy, too. How does it look to you since you are right there and can get a good look?

The soil looks very dense without good drainage properties. I am thinking that even without the nutes, that this is not a good soil for growing cannabis. If this were my grow, I would be for getting new soil--something with some perlite in it and no nutes. I get a product from Home Depot that I like to use to start seeds and use as the base soil in my super soil. I would transplant them in new soil and bury them up to the first set of real leaves.

Do you have a fan exhausting air out?

 

[Dr. Green Fang]

The soil looks very dense without good drainage properties.

Actually yeah, I thought "man that looks kinda muddy" eh? I'm new to this, but it looked muddy hence the need for some drainage. I use Sunshine Advanced Mix #4 and love it! I have to water everyday though, so be prepared for a lot of drainage and aeration....which is great for your root system though!

Also, I thought nute burn as well, from looking at the damage.

(*disclaimer* I am new to this, but I think what I do actually now know is sound info :confused2: )

Who knows.. lol .. Green mojo to yo! :aok: