Caregivers lose BIG rights

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NorCalHal

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In a blow to medical marijuana providers, the California Supreme Court ruled that defendants are not entitled to a defense as Prop. 215 caregivers if their primary role is only to supply marijuana to patients. The court unanimously overruled an appellate court decision in the case People v. Roger Mentch, writing:

" We hold that a defendant whose caregiving consisted principally of supplying marijuana and instructing on its use, and who otherwise only sporadically took some patients to medical appointments, cannot qualify as a primary caregiver under the Act and was not entitled to an instruction on the primary caregiver affirmative defense. We further conclude that nothing in the Legislature's subsequent 2003 Medical Marijuana Program (Health & Safety Code, 11362.7 et seq.) alters this conclusion or offers any additional defense on this record. "

Prop 215 defines "primary caregiver" to be the "individual designated by the [patient]... who has consistently assumed responsibility for the housing, health, or safety of that
person."
According to the Court, these words "imply a caretaking relationship directed at the core survival needs of a seriously ill patient, not just one single pharmaceutical need. "
The Court concluded, " a defendant asserting primary caregiver status must prove at a minimum that he or she (1) consistently provided caregiving, (2) independent of any assistance in taking medical marijuana, (3) at or before the time he or she assumed responsibility for assisting with medical marijuana. "
The Court's ruling effectively limits the caregiver defense to relatives, personal friends and attendants, nurses, etc. In particular, it excludes its use by medical marijuana "buyers'clubs," retail dispensaries and delivery services.
The remaining legal defense for medical marijuana providers is to organize as patient cooperatives and collectives, which are legal under SB 420.
"The Mentch decision highlights the inadequacy of California's current medical marijuana supply system," said Cal NORML coordinator Dale Gieringer. "The law needs to allow for professional licensed growers , as with other medicinal herbs."
- D. Gieringer Cal NORML


Basically, this is going to have a HUGE impact here in Cali. HUGE. This now takes away the whole premise of MMJ Dispensaries. Gonna get ugly....
 
In my book thats awesome..... If a person wants to qualify as a caregiver then they should have to do the appointments and stuff too with them(the patient),,,,after all, isnt that what the term "CareGiver" is. They are not the "weedman" they are people trusted with the care of another person this includes much more than just medication supply. This is not a Blow to MMJ but rather a step to legitimizing the "Caregiver" status. If you are truly a caregiver and have the best interest of the patient in mind then this would not bother you in the least bit...IMO

I know several people who mask as "caregivers" to grow for thier stock and make profits.

This is a lousy loophole and it looks like they are closing it....BRAVO to Them.....

Right On.... Keep the patience best interest in mind....
 
New_2_Chronic said:
In my book thats awesome..... If a person wants to qualify as a caregiver then they should have to do the appointments and stuff too with them(the patient),,,,after all, isnt that what the term "CareGiver" is. They are not the "weedman" they are people trusted with the care of another person this includes much more than just medication supply. This is not a Blow to MMJ but rather a step to legitimizing the "Caregiver" status. If you are truly a caregiver and have the best interest of the patient in mind then this would not bother you in the least bit...IMO

I know several people who mask as "caregivers" to grow for thier stock and make profits.

This is a lousy loophole and it looks like they are closing it....BRAVO to Them.....

Right On.... Keep the patience best interest in mind....

Well written, I like your view and think you are correct.
 
I'm glad I grow so I am somewhat independent of any need for a club or supplier. I think it's just a big waste of our money and more profits for the..uh..hispanics destoying the hills/mountains with their 5000 plant grows on our protected lands. I'm also not sure how easy it will be to find a nurse who will put you up her house, drive you to all your appointments, feed you, grow weed for you....just my very high thoughyts
 
Sorry bout double-dippin but think about this one...Does the local pharmacist do any of those things mentioned or only what he has knowledge of;verifying scripts, distributing medicine, and instucting of it's use? I may be way off on this one but it ain't the first time:p
 
Is the pharmasist someone giving medications out of his garage or shed? I dont think so.... Also Pharmasists tend to have some education in regards to medicine degree, schooling. Caregivers do not have to be Licensed Pharmasists to dispense medications, They do not have the gov, rlues and regulations that they need to follow and are monitored....That is the reason for the stringent guidelines of caregivers.....oh yeah and the fact that the meds cargivers are dispensing are illegal...wether it should be or not....it is...

Your comparing apples to oranges.....
 
lyfr said:
I'm glad I grow so I am somewhat independent of any need for a club or supplier. I think it's just a big waste of our money and more profits for the..uh..hispanics destoying the hills/mountains with their 5000 plant grows on our protected lands. I'm also not sure how easy it will be to find a nurse who will put you up her house, drive you to all your appointments, feed you, grow weed for you....just my very high thoughyts



are u rasitest or just retarted, since u can't say it, mexicans grow there weed south of the border. most of your 5000 plant oups are being ran by white people with big money ok, so don't be going on with rasist stuff, i am hispanic, an hate the drug wars. but the people distoying your hills are your own people!!!!
 
What Lyfr is reffering too is the NUMEROUS busts this year in the forests of California. They were all ran by Mexican cartels and this has been increasing over the last 10 years or so. Bottom line, the mexicans can't get rid of redbud for nothin' anymore, so this is thier way of getting back into the market. They do HUGE ops in the forests and leave all thier crap behind.
So, don't get all crazy Chef, I think Lyfr meant no harm.

Now, back to the real thing that has be BAFFELED.

Godspeed and New, first off you guys have my respect, so don't get offended by my following comments.

Do you guys really think that all the MMJ laws were started and are truly meant for Seriously Ill folks? Cmon meow.
Iv'e said it once, and I'll keep sayin it, MMJ is a STEPPING stone for full decrimilasation, imho.
Look guys, NORML (member since '88!) have tried all though the 70's and 80's to get herb decriminalized to no avail. Then they went the "MMJ" route. That gained sympathy from folks that were too scared to put thier vote to it. Now, folks that don't want water cooler talk about how they could care less about weed, now can voice thier opionon on how they don't care about Medical MJ. Either way, these folks now have a different view on MJ.

All this talk about "Patients" and being a "caregiver" that really "cares" is nonsense. Seriouly, how many SERIOUSLY Ill folks do you know that need to smoke weed? I'm atalking about Dieing AIDS patients, Cancer Chemo Patients, and "on thier death bed" people?

Should MMJ states Revoke the rights of the guy who gets a Rec for elbow pain? Is he not entiteled to MJ legally? Or the chick who gets a rec for PMS?
Who are you or anybody to say they can't have MJ legally, only folks we feel sorry for. I don't care what reason a person has to get legal in the eyes of the law for MJ. It's DAMN time to end this nonsense. So that means all the poor folks on this site living in non MMJ states are criminals, thats what your sayin man.

Lets talk "Caregiver" We all know that a Caregiver license is a LEGAL way (well used to be) to grow bigger ops and supply the clubs. And you guys are against that?? Crazy.
Can you guys tell me you have been growin herb since u started smokin, and have NEVER bought a bag since? Heck no. At one time or another WE HAVE ALL BOUGHT WEED.
But, PROPS to all that have taken on the enjoyable challenge of growing thier own. Obviously, we all love it and that is what brings us together here at MP.
But, as I have said before, WE ARE THE MINORITY. I would have to guess that less then 10% of all pot smokers grow thier own herb. Probably more like less then 5%.
So, what the Clubs in Cali did, is allow 90% of the pot smokers a SAFE LEGAL place to buy thier wares. And that wrong?? And trust me, these clubs offer a fair price on all types of herb, it's not a rip u off joint. You have MULTIPLE choices to fit anyones price range.
This is the MODEL for what full legalization should be. Not controlled by corperations and Pharmicuticle companies and only dispensed by Pharmacists, thats just CRAZY.

Built by Stoners and RAN by stoners, we know Herb better then the Goverment, ya think?
 
Hey WC, I agree laf should of worded it differently.....but how....

its well documented the larger grows 1500+ plants have been traced back to mexican drug cartels, and illegal aliens mostly of hispanic decent make up the larger percentage of those usually arrested at the grow sites. No racisim, just stating well documented facts.

But on the other hand most of the grows never get traced back to anyone so thier is really no way to tell WHO is destroying the terrain....I dont know anyone (white,black, or hispanic) that have over 10 plants so i am just stating hearsay.......

lets all just smoke a bong and be gald its not one of us destroying the earth,,,,we are doing our part,,,,,:hubba: :hubba: :hubba:
 
Do you guys really think that all the MMJ laws were started and are truly meant for Seriously Ill folks? Cmon meow.
Iv'e said it once, and I'll keep sayin it, MMJ is a STEPPING stone for full decrimilasation, imho.
Look guys, NORML (member since '88!) have tried all though the 70's and 80's to get herb decriminalized to no avail. Then they went the "MMJ" route. That gained sympathy from folks that were too scared to put thier vote to it. Now, folks that don't want water cooler talk about how they could care less about weed, now can voice thier opionon on how they don't care about Medical MJ. Either way, these folks now have a different view on MJ.

Couldnt agree more!

All this talk about "Patients" and being a "caregiver" that really "cares" is nonsense. Seriouly, how many SERIOUSLY Ill folks do you know that need to smoke weed? I'm atalking about Dieing AIDS patients, Cancer Chemo Patients, and "on thier death bed" people?

Couldnt disagree more.....Its not nonsense..... Why are you taking away the care from "Caregivers" the words go hand in hand.... If they didnt really care think of it this way....what would they be? Lets see,,,, grows MJ and sells it to medical patients and clubs turning a hefty profit:rolleyes: sounds like a dealer to me......plain and simple.....

I know two people in such a condition of which you speak, one does MJ and one does not.... Seeing one person you care about in such a state is enough for me....so i dont need high numbers in this regard....

Should MMJ states Revoke the rights of the guy who gets a Rec for elbow pain? Is he not entiteled to MJ legally? Or the chick who gets a rec for PMS?
Who are you or anybody to say they can't have MJ legally, only folks we feel sorry for. I don't care what reason a person has to get legal in the eyes of the law for MJ. It's DAMN time to end this nonsense. So that means all the poor folks on this site living in non MMJ states are criminals, thats what your sayin man.

Noone has said anything about who should recieve MMJ....It treats a slew of symptoms..... You are doing a little too much reading between the lines and putting words in my mouth. We are talking about the people who provide it and what standards they have to live up to....thats it...

Lets talk "Caregiver" We all know that a Caregiver license is a LEGAL way (well used to be) to grow bigger ops and supply the clubs. And you guys are against that?? Crazy.

Again Noone has said they are against it.....I know i keep repeating myself but I am talking about the standards to which people who grow and supply these clubs and patients should adhere to.....

I just think that too many people are using the MMJ caregiver status as a shield to protect them from prosecution for other illegal activities such as dealing.....Thye just arrested a guy growing 700 plants in a wharehouse somewhere in Cali, he claimed caregiver status protection but he only had one MMJ patient card.....700 plants for one patient,,,, you think there should be nothing wrong with that?

IMO all this boils down to is that if someone wants to be a "Caregiver" and supply MMJ to legal MMJ patients then there should at least be some standards that they have to adhere to dont you agree? Or do you think because they claim the caregiver status they should be just left alone with no standardization of the program, to do what they want?

think about it.....
 
Wiseguy_Chef said:
are u rasitest or just retarted, since u can't say it, mexicans grow there weed south of the border. most of your 5000 plant oups are being ran by white people with big money ok, so don't be going on with rasist stuff, i am hispanic, an hate the drug wars. but the people distoying your hills are your own people!!!!
:rofl: :rofl:It was a joke lameass, I am mexican,fool
 
New_2_Chronic said:
Again Noone has said they are against it.....I know i keep repeating myself but I am talking about the standards to which people who grow and supply these clubs and patients should adhere to.....

IMO all this boils down to is that if someone wants to be a "Caregiver" and supply MMJ to legal MMJ patients then there should at least be some standards that they have to adhere to dont you agree? Or do you think because they claim the caregiver status they should be just left alone with no standardization of the program, to do what they want?

think about it.....

Great response man.
Please don't think I don't care about folks and am making light of thier illness, I understand it truly helps alot of SERIOUSLY ill people.

First, I guess I'll throw it out there, I don't really care about who grows how big our what they do in the privicy of a Facility they own. If a guy has a Wearhouse and the ability and know how to safely, without robbing power and grows great herb, more power to him. Let him grow 1000 plants. I know alot of folks will disagree, but thats how I feel about it.

But see what I said, and New 2 Chronic made me think about it, I laid out "standards". Safely. Not robbing Power.
So I guess their should be "conditions".

But what conditions?? They can't make money? Is someone who supplies herb to a "Medical Marijuana Dispensary" just a pot dealer? I guess thats the real question.

What makes a Pot Dealer? Sells it to a non MMJ person? Sells "too much"? Sells it for "higher then normal" prices? Sells in the Ghetto instead of a Posh Hollywood apartment?

As far as the "Caregiver" status, I understand what your sayin' man. But INHO, I believe it was put in 215 to "expand" legal coverage of more folks.

Here is the KEY text in 215:
A) To ensure that seriously ill Californians have the right to obtain and use marijuana for medical purposes where that medical use is deemed appropriate and has been recommended by a physician who has determined that the persons health would benefit from the use of marijuana in the treatment of cancer, anorexia, AIDS, chronic pain, spasticity, glaucoma, arthritis, migraine or any other illness for which marijuana provides relief.


The KEY. Or any other Illness for which marijuana provides relief. This basically opened it up to ALL Persons of Legal age. And Caregivers are just a way of expanding that legal protection. Other States have now narrowed down what MMJ can be recommended for, But, that is how Cali Prop 215 was written and PASSED, Gotta LOVE it.

Of course I do not think that a MMJ Caregiver is anywhere near the same as a Seriosly Ill persons real "Caregiver". That is a job unto itself. I just think we should push the boundries until we get full legalization, and the "caregiver" was one way

Here is what 215 says a caregiver is : (e) For the purposes of this section, Primary caregiver means the individual designated by the person exempted under this act who has consistently assumed responsibility for the housing, health or safety of that person.

Or...

Becasue it says or, that is what opened up the door. If it said "and", that would be alot different. You would have to be responsible for all 3 items, not one. This is what was argued, and was defeted.

So, back to Standards. What do you all think? What would be "guidlines"?
 
First, I guess I'll throw it out there, I don't really care about who grows how big our what they do in the privicy of a Facility they own. If a guy has a Wearhouse and the ability and know how to safely, without robbing power and grows great herb, more power to him. Let him grow 1000 plants. I know alot of folks will disagree, but thats how I feel about it.

But see what I said, and New 2 Chronic made me think about it, I laid out "standards". Safely. Not robbing Power.
So I guess their should be "conditions".

I see your point on this statement, And I guess it is that right in which this forum was based on and the reason we re all here. Freedom to do what, when, and how you want in the privacy of your own home or faciity should be kept sacred and noone has the right to dictate what a person can and cant do. As long as you are not endangering yourself or anyone else then its sacred,,,,

But Ive yet to see a operation that size not "robbing power" or bringing an unsavory element around.

But what conditions?? They can't make money? Is someone who supplies herb to a "Medical Marijuana Dispensary" just a pot dealer? I guess thats the real question.

What makes a Pot Dealer? Sells it to a non MMJ person? Sells "too much"? Sells it for "higher then normal" prices? Sells in the Ghetto instead of a Posh Hollywood apartment?

Basicly....IMO...Yes..... someone that supplies herb for money is a Pot dealer. I mean I know there is no way the grower is spending anywhere near the price they charge per ounce to grow it....I can see recovering the costs of growing, and getting some free smoke out of the deal but they are going well beyond that.

I thnk the term they used in 215 is what is causing the problems here. They used the term Caregiver, which implies a step beyond what the task actually is.

Standards hmm... how about the Caregiver must be involved in the patients treament beyond just growing and supplying MJ for them. That could be that the "CG" provides or arranges transportation for treatments and appointments.....Could also be that the CG is responsible for picking up prescriptions and delivering them to the patient...The CG should also not be able to profit from the patient. Recovering costs for growing equiptment and nutrients is okay but that should be it. This could be done as a recurring monthly charge for the patient....There should be a limit of plants per patient the CG is responsible for, and it should be closely monitored.....There should also be a limit to the amount of patients per CG....

All just my opinion though...... If they would of used another term for the position like "medicinal healer" or something like that I doubt that this conversation would be happening,,,,

Jut wanted to say thanks Hal for this thread. I respect you and your views fully and entertain your .02 anytime...!
 
Alot of people are talking out there buttocks and dont know nothing about caregiving this is a step back for legalization not a step forward so if you dont have anything positive to say for prop 215 its really not needed
 
Alot of people are talking out there buttocks and dont know nothing about caregiving this is a step back for legalization not a step back so if you dont have anything positive to say for prop 215 its really not needed

:confused2: have no idea what your talking about....what ya smokin on?:p
 
New_2_Chronic said:
Is the pharmasist someone giving medications out of his garage or shed? I dont think so.... Also Pharmasists tend to have some education in regards to medicine degree, schooling. Caregivers do not have to be Licensed Pharmasists to dispense medications, They do not have the gov, rlues and regulations that they need to follow and are monitored....That is the reason for the stringent guidelines of caregivers.....oh yeah and the fact that the meds cargivers are dispensing are illegal...wether it should be or not....it is...

Your comparing apples to oranges.....


haha I think you are the one comparing apples to oranges. Caregivers are assisting in giving a medicine that although has incredible medicinal purposes, has the same risk as a tylenol... or less... lol

The reason for a pharmacists existence is because of the wide array of knowledge that is needed to avoid complications to these pharmaceutical drugs that have their own side affects plus additional side affects when mixed with other drugs that have their own side affects. What side affects of marijuana would the pharmacists be protecting us from... or trained on... don't have to worry about an overdose either... patient just gets really rested... doesn't sound like it requires any sort of training or specialized knowledge to use...
 
it doesnt take a genius to know that care giving is a harmless way of saying Medical Marijuana caregiver
 
And for the people that dont Know MMC Medical Marijuana ClubCard
 

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