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ShOrTbUs

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dwc, 105w cfl, 4x 23w cfl, AN jungle juice(grow,micro,bloom)

ph: 6.1
ppm: unknown(gotta buy one still, on a budget)
temp: 75 degrees
water temp: 69 degrees
RH: 45%-55%

ok, im 3 weeks into veg. first signs came about little after the first week, but was very small, and only located on one leaf. wrote it off as nute burn(i started feeding them too early), the progression is very slow, but is deff getting worse, starts at the very bottom and works its way up. the leaves in the pictures are from the first "true node". the last picture is how it looks when it just begins,(second node)

first guess was nute burn. so 3 days before week 2 was over, i filled res with just ph balanced water, and leeched the plants for 3 days, no change. when week 2 was over i went back to normal feeding at half strength. a day has passed and im really starting to worry

full strength feed:
grow - 4ml/L
micro - 2.5ml/L
bloom - 1ml/L

revised feed:
grow - 2ml/L
micro - 1ml/L
bloom - 1ml/L (kept bloom the same (.5ml/L seemed like too litle)

sick 004.jpg


sick 005.jpg


sick 006.jpg
 
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First of all, your pH is too high. If you are running DWC you want to keep it around 5.8. I like to start out low, around 5.5 and let it drift up to about 6.0 to assure uptake of all nutes. Unless your pH is in line, it is hard to diagnose. You could have nute lockout caused by pH and no amount of adusting nutes will help with pH not in line.

What is the source of your water? It is rather important to have something to measure ec if you are running hydro. If your starting water is high in unknowns, you could be overnuting.
 

ShOrTbUs

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im getting my water from my kitechen sink, run through a pure water filter...guess i should get my hands on a ppm meter stat
 

Hushpuppy

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Without seeing them, its hard to say for sure but it sounds like the early feeding may have whacked them too hard and has burned the roots which is why they are not recovering.

I am using the same nutes and am very impressed with the results. I started out at seedling by measuring per liter(they have it as per 100ltr) so where it says 33ml/100L for seedlings, I cut that to 3.3ml/10L of water. I think you should start out at no more than 1ml/L for the first week of feeding(which should start no earlier than the end of the second week of life of the seedling) Then for the second & third week increase it to 2ml/L(2-2-1). Starting the 4th week, if they are growing vigorously you can increase it to 3-3-1 and stay with that until you are ready to flip them. When you flip them you can go to 4(micro)-3(gro)-3(bloom) for the 1st &2nd week of flower. Then for 3rd week go to 4(micro)-2(gro)-4(bloom). 4th week, 4(micro)-1(grow)-5(bloom) and stay with that till the last week. If you don't know this already make sure you add the micro first and mix it into the water before adding the bloom and grow

Also your PH is a little high at 6.1 in hydro. I would run it at 5.8 if possible, although I don't think that is causing the problem. :)
 

ShOrTbUs

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Hushpuppy said:
Without seeing them, its hard to say for sure but it sounds like the early feeding may have whacked them too hard and has burned the roots which is why they are not recovering.

I am using the same nutes and am very impressed with the results. I started out at seedling by measuring per liter(they have it as per 100ltr) so where it says 33ml/100L for seedlings, I cut that to 3.3ml/10L of water. I think you should start out at no more than 1ml/L for the first week of feeding(which should start no earlier than the end of the second week of life of the seedling) Then for the second & third week increase it to 2ml/L(2-2-1). Starting the 4th week, if they are growing vigorously you can increase it to 3-3-1 and stay with that until you are ready to flip them. When you flip them you can go to 4(micro)-3(gro)-3(bloom) for the 1st &2nd week of flower. Then for 3rd week go to 4(micro)-2(gro)-4(bloom). 4th week, 4(micro)-1(grow)-5(bloom) and stay with that till the last week. If you don't know this already make sure you add the micro first and mix it into the water before adding the bloom and grow

Also your PH is a little high at 6.1 in hydro. I would run it at 5.8 if possible, although I don't think that is causing the problem. :)
thanks, whats the best way to end lockout?
 

pcduck

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ShOrTbUs said:
thanks, whats the best way to end lockout?
Adjust your pH of your nute solution to 5.8;) I start at 5.5 and let drift up to 6.0 before adjusting again.
 

Hushpuppy

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Yep, what PC said. :) Now that I see the pics, I can say that doesn't look like nute burn but if you added nutes too early then you could possibly cause an imballance with the PH that is causing the necrosis you are getting. Monitor the ph very close for the next week and make sure it stays within 5.5-6.0. As others have said, I will set my PH around 5.4-5.5 and let it climb to around 6.1 before adjusting it back down. I had trouble early on with mine trying to keep the PH ballanced as it wanted to jump around a bit. After a couple weeks It settled down as I increased the nutrient level in the water.

With the AN Jungle Juice, I found that it worked well for me to keep the micro at the same level as the grow thru veg and then the same as the bloom until mid way when I go higher with the bloom.

You said you are using tap water, is that from city or well? if it is from city then it will have chlorine in it that has to be aerated for 24hrs in an open bucket to remove the chlorine. You will also need to get the TDS tester to find out how hard the water is. It is also possible to have a certain amount of salt in the water from softeners. If you test it and find that the TDS level is above 100ppm, you may want to see about having it tested for chemical content. If it is from a well it could be high in calcium or iron and those can cause lockout and toxicity. :)
 

ShOrTbUs

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Hushpuppy said:
Yep, what PC said. :) Now that I see the pics, I can say that doesn't look like nute burn but if you added nutes too early then you could possibly cause an imballance with the PH that is causing the necrosis you are getting. Monitor the ph very close for the next week and make sure it stays within 5.5-6.0. As others have said, I will set my PH around 5.4-5.5 and let it climb to around 6.1 before adjusting it back down. I had trouble early on with mine trying to keep the PH ballanced as it wanted to jump around a bit. After a couple weeks It settled down as I increased the nutrient level in the water.

With the AN Jungle Juice, I found that it worked well for me to keep the micro at the same level as the grow thru veg and then the same as the bloom until mid way when I go higher with the bloom.

You said you are using tap water, is that from city or well? if it is from city then it will have chlorine in it that has to be aerated for 24hrs in an open bucket to remove the chlorine. You will also need to get the TDS tester to find out how hard the water is. It is also possible to have a certain amount of salt in the water from softeners. If you test it and find that the TDS level is above 100ppm, you may want to see about having it tested for chemical content. If it is from a well it could be high in calcium or iron and those can cause lockout and toxicity. :)
city water, the pure water filter doesnt remove all that stuff? i've tested my water straight out of the tap before(not filtered) it was 6.8
 
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No--those kind of filters are VERY limited in what they do--it is mostly hype (I am a plumber). The pure filter will not remove any dissolved solids in your water. It pretty much only removes particles that are in precipitate form. It is not the pH that we are concerned with with tap water as you almost always need to pH your water anyway to get it down where it needs to be. We are concerned with the dissolved solids in the water. These can only be removed with distillation, an RO, or a water treatment system.
 
A

accid

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Looks like magnesium deficiency. Give it some Cal-Mag then adjust your ph and that should resolve the issue.
 

PartyBro420

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I'm not a hydro grower, haven't dabbled in it yet, but wouldn't it be a better idea to fix the PH issue if it's causing lockout before giving it something like cal-mag?

You can also buy RO treatment systems, something, money permitting, you may want to look into. (not sure what they cost or if they're worth it but i'm sure someone in here has some experience with it)
 
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PartyBro is correct. Until you get your pH in line, it is impossible to really tell what is going on. Many nutrients are locked out when the pH is off. If you get it back in line you may find that your nutes are just fine.
 

CasualGrower

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/agree..... Get your PH in line... 5.8 average..... Impossible to tell what is going on till then.... and get a PPM meter )...
 

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