1. The July Children, photo by JGVermont1965
    Dismiss Notice

ebb and flow, root growth

Discussion in 'Marijuana Hydroponics' started by flutefixer, Aug 16, 2009.

  1. Aug 16, 2009 #1

    flutefixer

    flutefixer

    flutefixer

    Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2008
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    2
    my plants have been in the 12/12 ebb and flow for 7 days now, they are in 8 inch pots, I started the seedlings in rockwool and transplanted the rockwool cube to hydroton than put that into an 8inch pot,I am getting some root growth comming out of the pots now,am not sure what to do ????should I let them grow and lay exposed in the tray, or should I get some rockwool slabs and set the pots on that, somebody once said I could cut the exposed roots but this sound a bit extreme to me? any ideas. thanks
     
  2. Aug 16, 2009 #2

    Barbapopa

    Barbapopa

    Barbapopa

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2008
    Messages:
    173
    Likes Received:
    92
    I would put slabs underneath your pots, they still have a lot more growing to do if you are only into week 1 of flower.
     
    OGKushman and OriginalGrower like this.
  3. Aug 16, 2009 #3
    Ideally, your entire net pot should be buried. Some pics of your system would help.

    Here's what I use; my clones are put into 1 inch net pots of hydroton and rooted. When they've rooted, I put them so that the TOP of the net pot is 2" BELOW the surface of my tub of hydroton.

    That way, the roots can grow 360 degrees as fast as they can and no light hits any of the roots.

    You need to modify your system so that the roots are in some sort of media and hidden completely from light.
     
    TURKEYNECK and NorCalHal like this.
  4. Aug 17, 2009 #4

    Barbapopa

    Barbapopa

    Barbapopa

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2008
    Messages:
    173
    Likes Received:
    92
    Out of curiosity, how come you don't just use 4" or 6" rockwool cubes?
     
    OriginalGrower likes this.
  5. Aug 17, 2009 #5

    cubby

    cubby

    cubby

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,348
    Likes Received:
    1,307
    My first grow I had the same problem. I fixed it by putting the eight inch pots in one gallon pots with perlite. I put landscape fabric in the bottom of the one gallon pots so the perlite would'nt wash out, then put in enough perlite to bring the rim of the eight inch about an inch below the one gallon pot, then fill in around it with more perlite. As long as your holding tray fills to within 2/3 - 3/4 the hieght of the one gallon pots this should solve your problem, it worked fine for me.
    Best of luck and take care.
     
    TURKEYNECK and flutefixer like this.
  6. Aug 17, 2009 #6

    flutefixer

    flutefixer

    flutefixer

    Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2008
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    2
    does this mean your tub is filled with hydroton? I have a 3 x6 table, is it a viable option to fill it with hydroton?seams like ALOT of hydroton,perhaps I misunderstood?
     
  7. Aug 17, 2009 #7

    OGKushman

    OGKushman

    OGKushman

    Needs More Cowbell

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2009
    Messages:
    2,248
    Likes Received:
    454
    OP, you have the right idea
     
  8. Aug 17, 2009 #8

    OriginalGrower

    OriginalGrower

    OriginalGrower

    Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    4
    this is exactly what I was thinking.

    Why no rockwool cubes?
     
  9. Aug 18, 2009 #9

    TURKEYNECK

    TURKEYNECK

    TURKEYNECK

    Old School

    Joined:
    May 27, 2006
    Messages:
    1,816
    Likes Received:
    2,228
    Some folks believe that the rockwool holds too much moisture which would deprive the roots of oxygen but alot of people do it successfully. Obviously you wouldn't need to flood nearly as often with more rockwool...GL
     
  10. Aug 18, 2009 #10
    Yes, you fill the entire table with hydroton. It isn't really "a lot", it's just what is needed. The hydroton should be two inches ABOVE the level of the highest water mark. This prevents light from reaching the root system or nutrient solution.

    The root system needs to be completely under the surface. Rockwool cubes work great with drip systems IF the drip is adjusted to NOT cause over wetness and root rot.

    In an ebb and flow system, it's better to root the plants in 1.5" rockwool and as soon as the roots start showing on the outside of the cube, bury the cube in hydroton and start your ebb and flow.

    The cubes should be buried so that the TOP of the rockwool cube is 2 inches below the surface of the hydroton.

    I understand that hydroton is expensive. If that is something that stops you from using it, then some other form of growing might be best for you.

    Dirt grows are much less costly. Ebb and Flow is probably the most expensive manner of growing there is, initially, but it does pay off with accelerated growth.
     
    TURKEYNECK and flutefixer like this.
  11. Aug 18, 2009 #11
    Hey TN, you're right on with that info. If rockwool is used as the entire media, with the entire root system inside it for the entire grow in an ebb and flow system, it would be much too wet unless that was compensated for with frequent fills using nutrient solution that was extremely well aerated.

    It's much easier and results in faster growth to use hydroton with 1.5" starter cubes of rockwool. The root aeration is much better and results in much better over-all growth and less problems.
     
    TURKEYNECK likes this.
  12. Aug 19, 2009 #12

    flutefixer

    flutefixer

    flutefixer

    Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2008
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    2
    I have since taken Cubby`s suggestion,, I will fill the tray with hydroton and follow stoney buds advice also,I am ok with the cost ,it is the washing of the hydroton I am oposed to!!! (lazy) I am going to build some (removeable)shelves for a 50 gal drum I have with a spicket in the bottom, than I will fill the "shelves" with hydroton, turn the hose on and hopefully it will be easier than the 5 gal bucket I am currently using, does anyone re use the hydroton,(my laziness is apparant) I think I would rather dispose of the old and use new, once I figure out an easy way to rinse the hydroton,I totally appreciate the advise and encouragement found here, thanks..
     
    TURKEYNECK likes this.
  13. Aug 19, 2009 #13

    stonegroove

    stonegroove

    stonegroove

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2008
    Messages:
    163
    Likes Received:
    40
    i take clones in 1.5" rockwool cubes, when the clones are rooted i put them into 4" cubes and leave them to veg, when i put them in flower i fill the tray with hydroton and bury the cubes, my tray holds about 50 litres of hydroton, that costs about £15 and i can use the hydroton 3 times with minimal cleaning in between with no problems
     
    flutefixer likes this.
  14. Aug 19, 2009 #14
    Interesting method you have, stonegroove. I use the same grow chambers for both vegetative growth and flowering, so my plants never have to be moved. I just put the 1.5" directly into the hydroton.
     
    stonegroove likes this.
  15. Aug 19, 2009 #15

    highman

    highman

    highman

    berry berry sneaky!

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2009
    Messages:
    152
    Likes Received:
    33
    cleaning hydroton is a never ending process i have 18 2.5 gallon pots and once a week i clean the insides. If hydroton is not for you i would suggest lava rocks. i have had friends use this stuff as apposed to hydroton with great results.
     
    flutefixer likes this.
  16. Aug 19, 2009 #16

    Funkfarmer

    Funkfarmer

    Funkfarmer

    It's growing like a WEED!

    Joined:
    May 20, 2008
    Messages:
    610
    Likes Received:
    245

    stoneybud, do the roots get sucked into the fittings on the drain cycle? I had my plants in pots with coco and when the roots grew out of the bottom of the pot they got sucked into the fittings, it didnt cause a prob i was just curios about your method.
     
  17. Aug 19, 2009 #17
    Hey smoky, I use oversized fill and drain fittings with 1" inside diameters for that very reason. The few roots that do happen to find their way to the drain don't matter much. In all the crops I've done, I've only had a couple have a minor amount of roots in the drain and never any in the fill line. The 1" lines also make it so that there is no pressure in either line, ever. It's a simple gravity flow in a partially filled line.
     
    Funkfarmer likes this.
  18. Aug 19, 2009 #18

    viper1951

    viper1951

    viper1951

    legalization Warrior

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    125
    Likes Received:
    125
    if hydroton is to pricey for you. you could alway use Lava rock from a garden supply center it's cheap it holds a lot of water very porous and doesn't need to be watered that often. I would suggest if you chose to,use it is to wash it good to get any dirt out of it. I have been using it for a long time and I love it and so do the plants . and it was made in **** . don't get no hotter there! most of all it's cheap 23.00 bucks a cubic yard. I have 2 complete ebb and flow systems. one 24 site and one 12 site. most of all most garden centers carry it . good luck and enjoy Viper1951
     
    Funkfarmer and flutefixer like this.
  19. Aug 19, 2009 #19
    Hey viper, you're right as can be. Lava works great! Years ago, when I was first using hydroponic gardening, I used lava rock. It was the best that existed at that time. Man oh Man, was it expensive then! :shocked:

    I don't remember what I paid for it 28 years ago, but I remember thinking I was glad I didn't have to buy it more than once. Kinda like Hydroton now.

    Now, it's the least expensive of the two "rock" for hydro.

    It does work great too. I think it works just as good as hydroton, but isn't as easy to handle.

    I have a big metal tub that I jack up on cinder-block over a propane burner and I fill it with either hydroton or lava when I need to clean and sterilized it. I fill it with water and boil it good. All the junk comes to the top and can be skimmed off and when you're done, it's as clean as it can ever get.

    It costs me about $10 to clean the entire batch I have.
     
    flutefixer and viper1951 like this.
  20. Aug 20, 2009 #20

    viper1951

    viper1951

    viper1951

    legalization Warrior

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    125
    Likes Received:
    125
    good stuff for sure it really holds the water and nutes . I think it does a better job on holding water then hydroton does but thats just my opinion I know I don't have to water as often. which means less time the pumps are on. less wear on the pumps which means cheaper over all costs to grow a crop .Lava rock has so many cavities and is so porous, sharp which will cut roots so that they double up every time a root gets cuts it forms a y and you get 2 new ones I now have the best root systems I have ever had . no complaints here good stuff for sure Viper1951
     
    flutefixer likes this.

Share This Page