Flowering Question

Pinero06

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My grow area height is 2ft. max. My plant now is about 9 inches tall with bout 8 fan leaves and still gworing of course. Should i flower now since my height is only 2ft max or should i wait some more? she growing everyday so by now she bout 10 inches as of now.
if not, she'll be 10 inches by sunday. I know sum ppl wait till its about 1 foot before flowering but in my case 2 ft is the max
thx
 

joegrow22

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Well, it is optimal to flower once the plant starts alternating nodes. Clones begin this way, so if it is a clone then you don't have to worry about that. The plant once you start flowering will at least double in height. But since you only have 2 feet, it is going to probably get bigger than that, so you might want to look into low stress training, or maybe topping it.
 

Tonto

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I would definitely start with the low stress training right away. You can still have a good yield with small space if you take enough effort.
 

ob1kinsmokey

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yes. considering you only have a couple feet, lst, although it might seem good, might not be the ideal way to go.

lst is best when once its done your stem woods out. but you will be in such a small space and be flowering faster, so i would suggest just tieing down aka high stress training to some people haha

but i would suggest just tieing it down, and not LSTin it.

you could top to, i just dont like doing that, stress i feel. same sht tho
 

ob1kinsmokey

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LST is exactly how it sounds, so it prolongs the stress over a longer period of time until the stems woods out and it aclimates.

this may not be good considering you may want to flower before it has wooded out. and if you flower before it woods out, you may be adding unwanted stress and depleting yield (how much, youll never know, maybe not at all)

just tieing it down tho will get it done and over with, and isnt any more stress really at all if you dont keep tieing down. you can just easily stop once you know your ready and want to flower

my thoughts on it atleast
 

Tonto

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You're high aren't you :p Tieing the plant down is not much more stressful to the plant than other forms of LST, if any. Weights, pipe cleaners, they all do similar things.
 

KADE

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Fluid1 said:
You're high aren't you :p Tieing the plant down is not much more stressful to the plant than other forms of LST, if any. Weights, pipe cleaners, they all do similar things.

Thas rite, lst is called lst for a reason... you can grow your plant 2 inches high and spread it over 10 feet around if you want... isn't going to stress the plant out at all... if the plant was stressed or shocked growth would be slowed.... which is unnoticable with lst.
 

ob1kinsmokey

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of course im high :D

im not sure LSt is truely understood then.

lst like you said is lst for a reason. the tieing down process is drug out longer and is prety much completely different.

with lst you passively knock off an entire side of the bud plant. and the main stem acts as basically the ground for your other heads.

when just tieing down the main stem never passively becomes dormant, and in turn is continuously tied down in different directions to give growth everywhere.

with lst you gradually bend and hook your stem. where as with just tieing down, which i view as a higher stressed train, your are firmly tieing down your stalks well so it branches. there is no graudalness- and thats technique, not my opinion.


with LST if you dont plan on a longer veg, in my opinion it stresses flowering. because the auxin does not have a clear path upwards to the bud sites- which wouldnt matter if the stem was wooded out- which would happen with a longer veg period.

i have always thought using LST was more ideal outdoor. whent he plant could fully recooperate and wood-out with a longer veg cycle. of course many do it inside-

but if you are planning on doing this quick, you may be surprised- and you may be ready to flower before your plant is.

with lst you are literally loosing 25%, usually minimum of your foliage, and it is a drawn out training process, and it may inhibit hormone circulation if the stem isnt wooded out and you try to flower.

so imo it would definetely hurt your yield if done as if it were a quick technique- where as if you tied down your heads would be there as fast as you wanted them to be, and you could flower when ever you wanted, without any potential risk of less yield- which there may be with lst on a short veg cycle.

but def. isnt always true and is more just my view on it towards the plants anatomy. just makes sense i always thought

but like i say ya win some ya loose some ;)
 

Reverend Willis

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Howdy. I'm stoned tonight and wanted to chime in about the LST. It's a good way to make short little bushes pack on the buds. Don't be afraid to re-train the direction they are growing. With LST, you never even have to top the plant, thereby keeping the main cola. I used to grow in a box that had only 28 inches of vertical grow space. WHen your plants stretch, they will double to triple. If you are limited to vertical space --> go horizontal.
The pix show a wwxbb plant beginning at day 18 with LST and moving up to day 45. See the difference 27 days later. Now the plant can go into the flower room where she will have 7-10 nice budsites to fill over the next 8 weeks.
I've averaged 22-30 grams of dried bud per plant using this method.
'Scuse me, I think you're stoned. WHat was the question?

Day  18 LSTd.jpg


Day  24 wwxbb.jpg


Day  46 wwbb.jpg


Day  45 growing out.jpg


Day  45 anchored.jpg


Doobage day.jpg
 

ob1kinsmokey

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how much foliage do you loose on the down side of your stock? or do you continuously train in different directions to keep foliage?
 

Reverend Willis

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ob1kinsmokey said:
how much foliage do you loose on the down side of your stock? or do you continuously train in different directions to keep foliage?
Yeah, the training goes in all directions to maximize space and create more foliage (bud sites). The plant wants to grow straight up. We do let them grow upward -- After they fill out and make a bigger canopy. You are giving the side shoots an opportunity to catch up with the taller bud sites. Practice a few tie-downs. You'll catch on quickly.
Here's a nice canopy on some Blue Mystic I grew.

Day 79 canopy.jpg
 
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Stoney Bud

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ob1kinsmokey said:
how much foliage do you loose on the down side of your stock? or do you continuously train in different directions to keep foliage?
I think I see where you're coming from man. The foliage that is on the underside of the branches when you pull them over, is attracted to the light. This attraction causes it to grow towards the light. It will change it's direction and start growing "up" again. No foliage is lost because of LST.
 

Reverend Willis

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Stoney, you old buzzard, how are you? Are you still down in the swamp experimenting with plants and livin' the good life? Ain't seen ya fer awhile. I hope all is well.

Here's some of the WW and BM I've been noodling with. My very latest efforts are the best yet -- thanks to some soil amendments and kindness in general to my buckets of dirt. Take care of the soil and it will take care of your plants. I guess you hydro guys take care of your water and it takes care of your plants.

I've got 4 Aurora Indica clones that just went into the soil (I've never grown this gal before). I'm gonna be slippin' in a new clone or 2 every few weeks. I've got a Skunk Special mom I've been veg'ing several weeks. SHe's ready to do some clone duty. Also some WW x BB clones. I'm hoping I've got some Grapefruit seeds popping in a day or two. I really want to get into that sativa thing.

This question popped into mind the other day. What sayeth the Stoneman about swamp sativas? Which have you noodled with over the years and found them compatible with indoor living here in the south? I'd like to have a nice sativa mom hangin' around to join my rotation in the bullpen.

Tell us your ideas, oh Swamp Guru.
Peace, love, dope

BAC 84 56 ww.jpg


BAC 1220 BM.jpg
 
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Stoney Bud

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Who you callin a buzzard, kid? Hhahahahaaha

Things are good man. Where've you been?

I've got my Aurora Flowering. It'll be harvested on Feb 9th if everything goes to plan. I've got two weeks down today. X-mas day was the first day of full strength flowering nutes. It's kicking pretty good. The buds are starting off nicely.

Afghani is next. After that, I'll go to the WW. I'm looking forward to growing her. This will be my first grow of WW.

Ice is scheduled after the WW.

Durban Poison sounds like a hell of a Sativa to grow. I may try it after the Ice.

I want to know about that WWxBB crop. How about a Journal here, just for that one? Hydro BB amazed me. The stuff is a tad harsh, but packs a hell of a high. Mixed with WW, it's got to be killer.

Hey, good to see you again man. Stick around and enjoy yourself.
 

Reverend Willis

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Stoney Bud said:
Things are good man. Where've you been?

Afghani is next. After that, I'll go to the WW. I'm looking forward to growing her. This will be my first grow of WW. Ice is scheduled after the WW. Durban Poison sounds like a hell of a Sativa to grow. I may try it after the Ice.

I want to know about that WWxBB crop. How about a Journal here, just for that one? Hydro BB amazed me. The stuff is a tad harsh, but packs a hell of a high. Mixed with WW, it's got to be killer.

I've done a little hangin' out at IC in the Female Seeds forum tryin' to get a handle on some of their stuff. The WWxBB I've grown before had a nice buzz to it but I don't think I finished it properly. Everyone who smoked it gave it a big thumbs up but I think we can do better. I don't know if FMS is gonna do more seeds from this crossline. I might better hang on to this mum plant. I've tired of the WW. It's way more smoke than I want on a regular basis.

Stoney, are you doing all Nirvana strains? I've got a couple of mums from those stables. I'm still cloning the first BM mum I grew over a year ago. It's getting better as my skills improve. I was enjoying a bowl this afternoon with a friend and he commented on the smooth taste and comfortable high. He prided himself on being a dealer from years ago who 'supposedly' knows his weed. He asked if it was hydroponic. I said, "Naw, I think this guy grows in dirt."

A WWxBB journal? That's an idea. I'm trying to go organic within the next few months. I'm almost there. We'll see if we can produce some tasty buds to show off.
 

ob1kinsmokey

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sry to intrude on personal convo- and definetely pardon me if i seem out of line.

but in my experiences and from what ive learned through botanical classes and other growers- LST is different than how you are explaining it IMO

givin i might be misunderstanding, and i havent seen pics of your stalks-

tieing down, in its simplicity is what you are explaining i believe.

redirecting the main stalk in different directions and keeping it pliable (sp?) is not LST. atleast in the books.

I learned in the past that low stress training was actually thought up by an old lady (called LST much after she claimed she thought of it).

and of course she was trying to keep it stout, but learned that she could kind of 'decorate the plant' if you will by the look of the wooded out stem- which would later be taken farther into more techniques of vining a plant out.

which is used widely in indonesia for hemp- they have found they can grow cannabis much longer and closer together(more hemp fiber of course), while harvesting prime hemp off continuously wooding stalk.

LST, atleast from what i have learned, is stationary i guess you could say. there is no redirection. there is your initial bend past the previous node, causing branching and undergrowth to catch up of course- and then also hooking and bending the base of the stem, causing a gradual permenant lean. making the main stalk go paralell to the ground.

givin this could just be the side of the story i 'grew up' up on- but this is my understanding.

i did 2 tutorials on overgrow concerning tieing down and LSTing outdoors- and this was the background i based that on.

your bush and short stature would be the stalks all coming from one side of the main stem- which is now parallel to the ground

where as tieing down; the bush would be the product of the continuous redirection of the main stem, allowing the 'secondary'-i guess- stalks to grow.

and when you looked at the undercairage, the stems would be coming from all around the stalk- rather than from just one side with lst.

i have always thought, and said that tieing down will give a bush that looks close to the same as it would if you topped the plant, minus the extra lateral growth. where as LST would look more like a vine on the undercairage.

is this how yours is ending up? like i said i could def. be misunderstanding what your saying. but i have always thought this was the technique and outcome of low stress training

untitled.JPG
 

KADE

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IMO lst is defined by ''low stress training'' as in no stoppage of growth like taking a top cutting. I always start like your diagram shows... then as the original top still grows I tie it until it finally gets 360 degrees around the pot.... I dont think there is a real way to define it... you are just tryin to save grow space and to do it without stunting the plants growth.
 
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Stoney Bud

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OB: in my experiences and from what I've learned through botanical classes and other growers- LST is different than how you are explaining it IMO

SB: There are many types and methods of LST. LST means only; Low Stress Training. That's it. It doesn't matter what you do the the plant as long as it is Low Stress, and you are training it. Let's not restrict it to one method.

OB: given i might be misunderstanding, and i haven't seen pics of your stalks-tying down, in its simplicity is what you are explaining i believe.

SB: What you refer to as "tying down" *is* LST.

OB: redirecting the main stalk in different directions and keeping it pliable (sp?) is not LST. at least in the books.

SB: The main stalk is only the first to have LST of this type performed on it. The secondary branches are next. It depends entirely on which book you're reading. There are hundreds of them. Do you have a link to any published material that says this is not LST? I'd like to read it.

OB: I learned in the past that low stress training was actually thought up by an old lady (called LST much after she claimed she thought of it).
and of course she was trying to keep it stout, but learned that she could kind of 'decorate the plant' if you will by the look of the wooded out stem- which would later be taken farther into more techniques of vining a plant out.

SB: Great story. However, LST has been used as far back as the Aztecs. There are pictures of it being used 4,000 years ago.

OB: which is used widely in Indonesia for hemp- they have found they can grow cannabis much longer and closer together(more hemp fiber of course), while harvesting prime hemp off continuously wooding stalk.

OB: LST, at least from what i have learned, is stationary i guess you could say. there is no redirection. there is your initial bend past the previous node, causing branching and undergrowth to catch up of course- and then also hooking and bending the base of the stem, causing a gradual permanent lean. making the main stalk go parallel to the ground.

SB: Bending of any stems is redirection. The plant is no longer growing in it's natural direction.

OB: given this could just be the side of the story i 'grew up' up on- but this is my understanding.

i did 2 tutorials on overgrow concerning tying down and LSTing outdoors- and this was the background i based that on.

your bush and short stature would be the stalks all coming from one side of the main stem- which is now parallel to the ground

where as tying down; the bush would be the product of the continuous redirection of the main stem, allowing the 'secondary'-i guess- stalks to grow.

and when you looked at the undercarriage, the stems would be coming from all around the stalk- rather than from just one side with lst.

i have always thought, and said that tying down will give a bush that looks close to the same as it would if you topped the plant, minus the extra lateral growth. where as LST would look more like a vine on the undercarriage.

is this how yours is ending up? like i said i could def. be misunderstanding what your saying. but i have always thought this was the technique and outcome of low stress training[/quote]

SB: Tying down, bending, redirection....those are only words saying the same exact thing; LST. No single method is defined as LST. If you train a plant to do something and you are doing so without breaking, cutting, pruning or any any way, harming the plant, then you are using Low Stress Training. It's not reserved for only pot plants. It's used for plants of all kinds.

I find it interesting that someone would try to "keyhole" LST into an exact, defined method, when in fact, it's many, many methods of plant/human interaction.

Something I've learned in my years of plant research and growing is that if you get twenty botanists in the same room and ask them a question, you'll get at least 20 different answers. None of them agree on everything. Hhahahaahah, sometimes I wonder if they ever agree 100% on anything.

Good luck to you man. Keep on reading those books and practicing on the plants. You'll see soon enough that Botany is like looking into a barrel of broken mirrors. You'll hardly ever see the same view twice.
 
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