for my second, or is it third grow?

[Lastritez]

Could really use some advice and tips on where to go now, I will desribe my set up and so forth as best as I can, but if I miss something let me know.

Firstly my grow room set up.

I am using an old wardrobe that measures 62.5 inches high, 34.5 inches wide, and 20 inches deep.

Maxibright Sodium/Hydride compact 400w balast

growlux 400w clear high pressure sodium bulb

Small domestic bathroom extrator fan

2 x 20 litre buckets (using a bubble pot type of set up, with the plants in rockwool cubes, and then placed into the pots using clay beads to fill)

Air pump and airstones

using 'one part total bloom' plant feed from General Hydroponics europe.

Have just switched to bubble buckets for my second grow after much recomendation from the local hydroponics store, for the first grow i was using coco, and watered everyday manually.

I didn't germinate and veg the seeds myself, but was given 2 golden kush ready to go right onto flower. These actually turned out much better than i expected with quite a good yield for a first time, and it was 'knock me on my ***' good! the main problem with them is that the guy that germinated the plants for me, also gave me 2 spot spider mite as well! I had a massive infestation, which i managed to bring under some sort of control by dosing twice with Phytoseiulus, didn't eradicate them, but did bring them down to a mimimum.

After that grow I didn't use the wardrobe again for about 5 weeks (due to the guy who supplies my plants not pulling his finger out in time), in that time i cleared the wardrobe out, removed all the reflective foil from inside, gave it a good clean out, and let it sit there, to hopefully get rid of the mites, no such luck the next 2 plants that he gave me also came with spider mite, despite his assurances that he had solved the problem. So far they have been treated 3 times with an organic spray, which does the job really well, but as the plants are small and the leaves are quite tight together, this made ensuring the whole plant was covered almost impossible, and so a few always managed to get through, I have not been able to treat them again with the spray as they have started to flower, and I am reluctant to spray onto buds, even though the product claims to be safe.

These are the 2 plants I am growing at the moment, aparently they are isis, and they are not happy. For some reason he decided that he was going to hack them right back as they where growing, now they do not get any taller, but also are failing to bush out, the roots have reached the water, and I usually take a jug of water/feed mix from the bucket and pour over the rockwool just to make sure it stays moist while the plants establish themselves, the roots are making their way through the water, not sure how they should look at this stage, but they seem to be growing well.

Apart from the lack of bushing out, am having problems with what looks like burning on the leaves, at the moment they are no taller in the wardrobe than the golden kush was at the end of its grow. I know that ventilation is important, but as we are on a very limited budget (the other half is disabled, and unable to work and has to rely on benefits, and I am hopefully returning to work after about 3 years being signed off due to ill health), and so forking out what I think is stupid money for a fan or two, tubing and filters is way out of my budget. I over came this, when I realised that the crappy fan i had in there wasn't enough, by keeping the doors open when the light was on, and placing an occilating fan on a stool in front of the wardrobe to move the air around, not ideal i know, but the best I could come up with. As I am at home most of the time, it wasn't a problem to make sure the doors where shut during the dark cycle, to make sure that the 12/12 time was kept, I am doing the same with these plants as well.
I know that the wardrobe is quite short, and am on the look out for a taller one, the floor space seems to be fine for 2 plants. I am also keeping my eyes open for some cheap fans and carbon filters.

As for feeding, they get 8ml of feed per 1L of water (as per the instructions), and I balance the tap water to get a PH of 6.5, i monitor the PH levels of the buckets every day at the start of the light cycle, and adjust as needed. I also add a 'top up' of balanced PH water with feed, usually I pour over the rockwool to keep it moist while the plants are getting established.

At the moment I am not sure what to do, I am reluctant to carry on with these plants mostly due to the spider mite, after the amount of hassle I had with them last time, I really don't want to go through it again, and because I am convinced that the guy has done more harm than good in the way he hacked them back to keep them small while they where in veg. Seriously I think we are talking about cutting the plant in half, more than once, some really obvious signs of hacking the main trunk down to reduce size, rather than 'clipping' the top every now and then.

At the moment I am think its probably best to destroy them, and start again and germinate the seeds myself, where I can monitor their height and watch for signs of mites much earlier, and hopefully eradicate them.

If I can get my hands on a taller wardrobe I will, if not I could build a cabinet in the corner of the bedroom, this will be a massive amount of work, as our apartment is very small, and very full of, well, her junk really, she's a hoarder, and we got crap everywhere, and she will not get rid of it, she also inherited a couple of quite large items of furniture, which means also makes moving anything aorund to try and get more space a massive ordeal, especially when she is unable to help me, due to her disability.

OK its a long post, probably over kill on the info, and some waffling as well (like I said, the first crop was wicked good stuff), but I wanted to try and include as much info as I could think of, sorry if it got a bit carried away! so do i kill the second grow, and move on to the third? or is it possible to save these, without having to struggle like a mofo to keep the mites under control. As mentioned, budget is VERY tight, so going out and spending a load of cash just isn't a viable option at the moment. I am not looking for perfection at this time, when I am working again I can invest in some better gear, I just need some advice on how to muddle through as best I can with this set up, or with the taller wardrobe, when I find one.

Any advice would be appreciated

Photos to follow, as soon as I have found the card reader to take them off the camera!

 

[Lastritez]

some more images

 

[Lastritez]

and a couple more!

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

Number 1, your ph is way too high. You are most likely experiencing nute lock-out. Running hydro and bubble buckets, you want to keep your ph between about 5.3 and 5.8.

In addition, it is not necessarily a good idea to go by the recommendations on the nutrient bottle. I use GH Flora series, but am not familiar with their "one-part total bloom". However, I do not use as much nutrients as it instructs. I find that the recommended dosages are too much for my plants. You are going to have to get your ph correct and then I would recommend backing off some on the nutes and increasing gradually. You really need a meter to check ppm, but they are not cheap. You should at the very least, check your tap water to make sure that you do not have a bunch of dissolved solids in your water.

If that is foil on your walls, you should take it down. Foil is not a good material to use on your walls. It is actually a very poor reflector of light and it can cause hot spots. FLAT while paint is far better.

Your light could be a lot closer to your plants.

You are going to have to get more ventilation in there. What are your temps running?

 

[Tater]

Hemp goddess about summed it up nice post.

Also here's a little tidbit that seems to work for me when trying to find what my plants want for nutrients.

If ppm's go down and ph goes up chances are plant needs more nutrients.
If ppm's go up and ph goes down plant probably needs less nutes so just dilute the solution.
If ppm's and ph remain constant (little to no drift) you have achieved balance and are at one with the universe good job.

http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/4044.html
nice read on PPM's and PH.

 

[Lastritez]

Thanks for the replies, nice and quick as well, lots of good info.

Yes it is foil on the walls of the wardrobe, it will be replaced with either white paint, or if we have the money some proper reflective material.

I set the PH to 6.5 as thats what the guy in the shop recommended when i bought the equipment, I have emptied the buckets adn refilled, put PH to 5.5 in each and have used about half the nutes (this is what they recomend to use when growing in soil), will see how that goes. I have checked the prices on PPM meters, and have been told in no short terms that we cannot afford it at present, so I will have to start with half dose and increase if needed, but a PPM meter is on the shopping list. I also didn't mention that I let the water sit for about 24 hours before doing a full change, but for topping up i just use tap water with a corrected PH, after reading through some of the posts here, i will also let the top up water sit for the same time as well.

not sure of the temperature at the moment, got a friend dropping off a small wall mounted thermometer some point tonight, so will post the temps up when i get them, doors closed, doors open adn doors open with fan.

The reason the light is so high is because of the heat its generating, for some reason it seems to be generating a lot more heat this grow than the last one, and the balast is getting so hot its untouchable, but this is kept outside the wardrobe, but its still worrying how hot it and the light seem to be getting. Any ideas on how close it should be?

The problem with adding more ventilation is the space issue and the cost. The local store want about £200 for a single extrator fan, ducting and carbon filter, and thats out of our budget at the moment, but we will be investing as soon as its available, but I still think its very expensive for what it is, but can't seem to find them cheaper anywhere, if anyone has a good contact in the UK for this please let me know. At the moment the only permanent ventilation is the small extrator fan you can see in the top right of the photo, yes its really in-adequate, but as i said we are growing on a very tight budget, had enough money to get what you see in the photos, will be adding more when the cash comes in of course.

informative read on PPM's and PH, never even considered PPM, but thats me being a newbie, and all information adn advice is greatly received, anything to help me get the best out of my girls.

Can't say how glad I am to have found this forum, a big thanks to all invloved, its just awesome to have this type of community behind you, and I have had a great welcome, thank you once more.

 

[JBonez]

Thanks for the replies, nice and quick as well, lots of good info.

Yo tater, that was one of my all time favorite posts, you too HG, im just soaking up all this dwc info, can wait to start in a few weeks.

Yo lastritez, its a learning process, sometimes the hydro store guys do know there stuff, just dont discount there information without asking on here, and vice versa, its called learning, im prob more of a newb than you!

 

[Lastritez]

**update**

just to list the different temperatures when the light cycle is on.

Doors closed - 38c / 100f, which I believe is way to hot

Doors open - 25c / 77f

Doors open and fan - 24c / 75F, doesn;t so much cool them as keep air flow moving around them.

Also any tips on what I can use to try and control the mites while the plants are budding? as I said I am reluctent to spray them with the pest control with the flowers out, even though it claims to be safe to humans and non toxic.

 

[JBonez]

**update**

just to list the different temperatures when the light cycle is on.

Doors closed - 38c / 100f, which I believe is way to hot

Doors open - 25c / 77f

Doors open and fan - 24c / 75F, doesn;t so much cool them as keep air flow moving around them.

Also any tips on what I can use to try and control the mites while the plants are budding? as I said I am reluctent to spray them with the pest control with the flowers out, even though it claims to be safe to humans and non toxic.

wish i could help with the mites, havent had that problem yet, but if you watch urban grower, he mentions something about the "Cocktail" that he uses into the first few weeks of bud i believe, lemme find the link for you.

scroll down to volume 29 (second one down) and click the video that says Mailbag. hxxp://urbangrower.com/

 

[Tater]

You shouldn't be letting your plants get much hotter than like 26 C and they shouldn't get much cooler than 22-21C Except if you are trying to coax colors out of your buds but then you should only lower the temp in the final week or two of flowering. Do it while you flush. I'm going to come back to this post later tonight as I've got some really good ideas that I think will help you and if money is an issue I bet we can come up with something that will work but you are going to have to spend a little bit or find a way to salvage some things. I'll be back later though. It will be a big post lol.

 

[Lastritez]

got plenty of friends with atics and cuppoards full of stuff i can salvage, mostly motorbike kit though hehe. Spending a little money shouldn't be aproblem, its just my idea of little is alot different to others (probably comes from having to rely on state benefits for the past 3 years or so, thank god I can finally return to work, pity the economy is in such a state, maybe its my return that caused it?), but any ideas you have will be great.

Thanks again fro the quick replies adn helpfull advice, have made some changes already, will give the plants a couple of days to get used to it, will of course post up my results.

Big thanks once more, i rekon I could be owing a few drinks to a few peeps when this is over, and thats money I don't mind spending!

 

[Lastritez]

just as a thought would it be worth making a grow journal fro this grow, or wait till the next one as this one is well underway? for the next grow I am thinking about tryign to germinate and veg them myself, never done it, reading alot to prepare myself, equipment needed and so on, of course any tips and advice always welcome.

 

[Lastritez]

Have made a few changes to the set up, got rid of that foil, lowered the light, but stil lhaev the cooling and vernting issue,. and not to metnion the mites have taken over, they plants are infested with them. So i have decided to burn the plants, and the wardrobe, and start fresh. Still cannot afford to get the ventilation I really need at the moment (fighting an insurance claim after my bike was hit by a non insured driver who also doesn;t have a license), so any help with how to get around it on a budget for now woudl be greatly appreciated.

 

[Tater]

Just cut a couple holes in the bottom (4-6 inch hole saw would work well) and then cut one 6 inch hole in the top and hook your bathroom fan to that and have it blowing the hot air out the top. Sorry I never came back earlier I couldn't find the post and I smoke to much dope lol. I did try though, anyways when you get your kit together let us know what you have available and we can try to work something out for you. I know you may not have much money but you really need to try to get some better fans to move that air.

 

[Lastritez]

hehe no worries tater, had to dig a bit to find it myself hehe.

The bath room fan I have is terrible I know, its no where near enough for that small wardrobe, or any grow room for that matter. Based on my first grow, which turned out not to bad, and the problems with this grow (excluding the mites), I need to have a 'taller' grow room, especially since I lack funds for better ventilation, the larger space should give better heat control (I think), as you can see from the images the wardrobe was quite short, forcing me to place the light in the top part of the wardrobe, even when lowered closer to the plants, and a hot lamp is such a small space will need more ventilation that a grow room with more space. The footprint will remain about the same, but I should be able to make the grow room as tall as the room it is in. It will either be a custom made room, a family member has a lot of wood I can use to build a frame into the corner of the room, or possibly a much taller wardrobe, although I have to admit I prefer the custom made room, I can make it how I like then. I believe the larger space should make keeping it the right temperature easier, and also make day to day maintenance and observances much easier.

I plan to make a 'stand alone' frame, and then 'wrap' it with relfective material rather than go for a 'solid' box, this should make dismantling easier and quicker in case I need to move it in a hurry. The 'door' will be just the reflective material with velcro around the outside so its easy to get on and off and keep out of the way when I am working in the room, a problem I found to be very irritating with the small wardrobe.

I might have a solution to the venting issue as well, but would appreciate some advice. A friend bought a non running bike to supply some spares for his trike project, and the engine is water cooled, and has a fairly meaty fan on the radiator. This fan comes in a housing that attatches to the radiator, with a few minor adjustments (read drill) it can be fitted to the new set up, to cover the fan and prevent light from getting in during the dark cycle, we can 'modify' a small bucker to cover the frame of the fan, and then cut a hole in the bottom to feed an old tumble drier exhaust tube from. The main problem with it is the noise it makes, the grow room is in the bedroom, and the fan does make a lot of noise. The way I have got around this before is to have the entire wardrobe on a timer, so that it completes shuts down when the light cycle ends, although I am not sure if this is OK, or if the ventilation needs to be 'on' all the time to keep air moving, if its better to keep the ventilation on all the time I will need to find a better solution.

At present I have a different friend who has offered to germinate some seeds for me, as he doesn't have a mite problem, ready for when my new set up is complete.

on the plus side, I have managed to obtain a PPM meter, expecting delivery any day.

 

[Tater]

Actually that bathroom fan should easily cool a single 400watt light as long as you chop holes in the bottom to have unrestricted passive air intake and get it venting heat out the top.

 

[Tater]

Oh and to answer your question, you can shut down you exhast when the lights go off just keep a circulatory fan going inside the box to help control mold. A little desk fan will work great for that.