HELP! Leaves turning yellow and curling up, too much nutes?

[r0xahbuds]

Hey guys,

My friend has started growing for his first time with a 7 gallon flood/drain system. We have it flooding for 15 minutes and off(draining) for 15 minutes, etc.

IS THIS TOO MUCH WATER? also, the water level comes up about half way up the rockwell.

He is using Flora grow, micro, and bloom.

He was doing 7 tsp of each and then upped it to aggressive growth which is 3 times as much, which seems like a pretty high level of nutrients.


Anyways, the next day the plants look like this:


I went over to his house, flushed the entire system, filled with clean water, no nutes, but didnt change the flood/drain cycle.

The light is a 200w HPS.

If you need any more info, please ask.

Thanks so much in advance for anyones help. I'm guessing its too much nutes and too much/not enough water.

Pics:


This is our healthiest plant:

 

[AlkaloidContent]

That deff looks like nute burn, just as long as you dont have any other factors like really close light it really resembles it anyway.

Try to remember until the plant gets its first real set of leaves out it wont try to gather much Nitrogen from the soil or other medium. It has some stored in those round leaves so it can eat until it can photosynthesize better basically.

7tsp + 3 per gallon? Thats a ton of nutes.

Also make sure your PH is 5.5-6.0 for hydro nutrient solutions.

Plus make sure you use very little while they are young slowly using more as they get older.

 

[Hushpuppy]

Just as AC said... Yer using waaay tooo much nutes for those babies. Up to this point they shouldn't have any nutes. Those little ones are just getting going and for the first 3-4wks from germ they shouldn't have anything but PH'd water with low TDS<200ppm. once yu see vigorous growth, about the 4th week, then start adding nutes at 1/4 strength for the first week or two, then up it to 1/2 strength for another week or two, then 3/4 strength, and so on. Also, always check yer ph after mixing the nutes in water and adjust to 5.8...I am not sure how close yu have yer lights but seedlings and young plants don't need a lot of light starting out. The HID lights can be a bit intense. If nothing else back them up about 3 feet from the plants. If yu can get some flourescents (T5HO 6500K or CFL6500K)for the veg stage yu would do better and save the HID for late veg/flower.

 

[AlkaloidContent]

Nailed it! ^

They dont look too horrible but I wouldnt expect them to just jump back into either. As far as your other question the water going to the mid point on the containers is good. I always flooded to halfway point so they get the water but the upper area of the medium stays relatively fry and aerated. Do you have pics of your setup? Im sure that would get some people throwing 2 cent coins left and right for ya.

You did the right thing by flushing the system. The best choice.

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

Seven tsp of each doesn't mean much without knowing the size of the res, however, the first plant looks like nute burn, the others not so much. It looks a littlle more like pH issues. Nute burn generally starts at the tips and leaves them brown and crispy.

I have seen or even never heard of a 200W HPS--are you sure it is a HPS?

 

[r0xahbuds]

thanks for the info and quick response! I will be sure to get this grow straightened out and will post pics of the success (hopefully)

 

[AlkaloidContent]

Seven tsp of each doesn't mean much without knowing the size of the res, however, the first plant looks like nute burn, the others not so much. It looks a littlle more like pH issues. Nute burn generally starts at the tips and leaves them brown and crispy.

I have seen or even never heard of a 200W HPS--are you sure it is a HPS?

Im pretty sure he said 7 gallons of water. So he had 7 tsp in it, 1 tsp per gallon. Then he said he trippled it. Right?

Great question too, 200W HPS?

 

[r0xahbuds]

Yup, which was obviously overkill, instead, I'm going to do 1 tsp for all 7 gallons working my way up to 5 or 6 tsp near bloom.

I will double check on the light when I go over there tomorrow. We are doing a Growlab gl80 (like 3 ft x 3 ft) with 4 plants.

So the water cycle we have going is fine?

 

[AlkaloidContent]

Im saying that your idea of saturating half way is what I used to do and it worked. THG to me is the hydro person to ask when it comes to specifics. She has current first hand knowledge in Hydro. I have done it but only once so I can say that tsp per gallon is too much let alone tripple that amount.

I re-read what you first typed too and noticed that you meant 7 tsp to 7 gallons. I thought you said 7 tsp to a gallon. I almost went boom boom in my pants when I first read it. Then again at that amount Im sure those babies would have like evaporated or something. lol.

 

[Hick]

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[WoodyPheonix]

Just something I noticed here. You say you are flooding for 15 mins, but how often??
With babies that size it doesnt need to be more than 2x per day because they look like they are in rockwool and rockwool holds a fair amount of water.
Also, if you let the cubes dry a little, it will encourage root growth and help prevent problems such as overwatering (lack of air to roots) and stop deseases taking hold of weak roots.
JMO W

 

[AlkaloidContent]

What that guy said ^

 

[r0xahbuds]

Thanks, we were watering WAYYYYY too often then. We had it on for 15 minutes twice an hour as I stated in my second sentence

 

[WoodyPheonix]

Hi again,
I just noticed you mentioned the water comes half way up the rockwool.
I would suggest that during flood, this is ok as long as you have a decent root mass within the rockwool but generally speaking, rockwool holds water pretty good and while this is good if your pumps fail, I think this is a bad thing once the roots are out of the rockwool.

My advice in your situation would be to stop the flood for a day or 2, let the roots breath and the rockwool dry a bit.
If you can, lower the flood height a little so it is just the roots that get flooded. This will encourage a larger root mass.
Dont give any more nutes until you see new growth and go with what Hushpuppy said regarding upping the feed though you could probably stop once you get to 75%. In flood & drain, you should get really good growth with a max of 60% strength.
Although many growers flood 15 min/2hours during lights on in flower, I always think this it far too much. I have seen really good growth with 15mins/4hrs during lights on flowering and 15 mins/8hours during veg.

Remember growing is about getting ALL the parameters "in the zone", feed, frequency, temps, CO2 availability, humidity. The closer you can get to perfect in each area will determine how successful your grows are. These plants will recover, I am sure. Probably the biggest mistake new growers make is being impatient and the hardest part of learning to grow is learning to be patience. You cant rush mother nature. I tried and failed, like many before me.
Keep reading and learning and ask as many questions as you like, we like to help here and especially those who help themselves.
W

 

[r0xahbuds]

Thanks for such a thorough response! I believe these plants will come back. The two things that I was unsure about with Hydro was the amount of nutes and the flood/drain cycle and we obviously were doing those two things completely wrong. Now I've got it on flood once every 8 hours and moved the light up to about 10 inches away from the leaves and removed all nutes. I will start with 1/6 strength tomorrow and work my way up to 60% by end of veg.

Do nutes stay at 60% strength through bloom? I know I want to cut nutes 1 - 2 weeks before harvest.

 

[WoodyPheonix]

Well, there are 2 common methods with nutes in bloom, many flush during the last week or 2 to improve "flavour". I am of the other school that believes feeding until harvest is the best way since the plant can then feed all the way through instead of being starved for a week which could have an impact on yield.

When flowering, I believe giving grow nutrients for the first week is a good idea to save a nitrogen deficiency later. During the first week or 2 of flowering the plants will go through a huge growth spurt where they can triple in size so I feel the extra nitrogen of a grow feed is needed at that point.
For the rest of flowering, I would suggest giving at much nutes as they can handle. Start at 80% strength, measuring this with either an EC or PPM meter. This is important in hydro.
I would suggest giving 80% for 4 days, if the tips of the leaves do NOT brown, give them 100% for the next 4 days, again, if no brown tips show, up it to 110%, if you see brown tips, back down to the previous level. You will soon find how much they can take and feed them that strength.
You need an EC/PPm meter to take account of your tap water. It may have solids in it such as calcium, once nutes are added, take a reading, make a note of it and measure it every day, this way you will see what your plants are drinking and "eating". Maximising their feed through flower is essential for yield.
JMO W

 

[r0xahbuds]

Hey guys, here are some pics of how they're doing. We have it to flood 4 times a day, 1/6 strength nutes and obviously the're looking A LOT better.

Thanks for all the advice.

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

Looking great--nice and green and healthy. Glad you got things straightened out.

 

[WoodyPheonix]

Yippeeeee.
Nice job dude, looks like they have turned the corner.
W

 

[r0xahbuds]

I started a grow journal to document the progress here: http://marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57697

Much new growth and more pics! Thanks again for all the adviceee