Legal Warrantless search
- Thread starter jonesfarm
- Start date
ozzydiodude
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2008
- Messages
- 9,143
- Reaction score
- 4,332
get a laywer you'll need him. Exigent Circumstances are the scarries words in law just about.
EXIGENT CIRCUMSTANCES
Emergency conditions. 'Those circumstances that would cause a reasonable person to believe that entry (or other relevant prompt action) was necessary to prevent physical harm to the officers or other persons, the destruction of relevant evidence, the escape of a suspect, or some other consequence improperly frustrating legitimate law enforcement efforts.' United States v. McConney, 728 F.2d 1195, 1199 (9th Cir.), cert. denied, 469 U.S. 824 (1984).
Exigent circumstances may excuse failure to make an announcement or to wait for the occupant to refuse entry. United States v. Mendonsa, 989 F. 2d 366, 370 (9th Cir. 1993). The existence of exigent circumstances is a mixed question of fact and law reviewed de novo. Id.
A search is reasonable, and a search warrant is not required, if all of the circumstances known to the officer at the time, would cause a reasonable person to believe that entry or search was necessary to prevent physical harm to the officer or other persons/the destruction or concealment of evidence/the escape of a suspect, and if there was insufficient time to get a search warrant.
The federal 'knock and announce' statute, 18 U.S.C. S 3109. Section 3109 requires 'police officers [to] knock, announce and be refused entry before they break into a residence. Exigent circumstances excuse noncompliance.' United States v. Turner, 926 F.2d 883, 886 (9th Cir.), cert. denied, 502 U.S. 830 (1991). Specifically, the court found that immediate entry was necessary 'for [the officers'] protection and the protection of others inside as well as to prevent the destruction of any drugs in defendant's possession or in the home.'
A simultaneous, no-refusal entry is permissible if at least 'mild exigent circumstances' were present. See United States v. McConney, 728 F.2d 1195, 1206 (9th Cir.) (en banc) (mild exigency is sufficient to justify simultaneous knock/announce and entry if entry does not require physical destruction of property), cert. denied, 469 U.S. 824 (1984); United States v. Whitney, 633 F.2d 902, 909 (9th Cir.'80) ('only a mild indication of exigency is required to excuse noncompliance with the `refusal of admittance' requirement of section 3109'), cert. denied, 450 U.S. 1004 (1981).
When police have a reasonable and sincere fear that someone is in jeopardy and contraband might be destroyed, this usually constitutes sufficient exigency to justify a simultaneous, no-refusal entry. See McConney, 728 F.2d at 1206; Whitney, 633 F.2d at 909-10.
Exigencies created by the government cannot be the basis for excusing compliance with the warrant requirement. See, e.g., United States v. Hackett, 638 F.2d 1179, 1183-85 (9th Cir.'80), cert. denied, 450 U.S. 1001 (1981); United States v. Curran, 498 F.2d 30, 34 (9th Cir.'74). The rule has been applied only in cases where exigencies arose 'because of unreasonable and deliberate [conduct] by officers,' in which the officers ' consciously established the condition which the government now points to as an exigent circumstance.' See, e.g., Curran, 498 F.2d at 34 (emphasis added); Hackett, 638 F.2d at 1183; United States v. Calhoun, 542 F.2d 1094, 1102-03 (9th Cir.'76), cert. denied, 429 U.S. 1064 (1977). an honest miscommunication is not a case where the government purposely tried to circumvent the requirements of section 3109. Cf. Hackett, 638 F.2d at 1184-85; Curran, 498 F.2d at 33-34.
EXIGENT CIRCUMSTANCES
Emergency conditions. 'Those circumstances that would cause a reasonable person to believe that entry (or other relevant prompt action) was necessary to prevent physical harm to the officers or other persons, the destruction of relevant evidence, the escape of a suspect, or some other consequence improperly frustrating legitimate law enforcement efforts.' United States v. McConney, 728 F.2d 1195, 1199 (9th Cir.), cert. denied, 469 U.S. 824 (1984).
Exigent circumstances may excuse failure to make an announcement or to wait for the occupant to refuse entry. United States v. Mendonsa, 989 F. 2d 366, 370 (9th Cir. 1993). The existence of exigent circumstances is a mixed question of fact and law reviewed de novo. Id.
A search is reasonable, and a search warrant is not required, if all of the circumstances known to the officer at the time, would cause a reasonable person to believe that entry or search was necessary to prevent physical harm to the officer or other persons/the destruction or concealment of evidence/the escape of a suspect, and if there was insufficient time to get a search warrant.
The federal 'knock and announce' statute, 18 U.S.C. S 3109. Section 3109 requires 'police officers [to] knock, announce and be refused entry before they break into a residence. Exigent circumstances excuse noncompliance.' United States v. Turner, 926 F.2d 883, 886 (9th Cir.), cert. denied, 502 U.S. 830 (1991). Specifically, the court found that immediate entry was necessary 'for [the officers'] protection and the protection of others inside as well as to prevent the destruction of any drugs in defendant's possession or in the home.'
A simultaneous, no-refusal entry is permissible if at least 'mild exigent circumstances' were present. See United States v. McConney, 728 F.2d 1195, 1206 (9th Cir.) (en banc) (mild exigency is sufficient to justify simultaneous knock/announce and entry if entry does not require physical destruction of property), cert. denied, 469 U.S. 824 (1984); United States v. Whitney, 633 F.2d 902, 909 (9th Cir.'80) ('only a mild indication of exigency is required to excuse noncompliance with the `refusal of admittance' requirement of section 3109'), cert. denied, 450 U.S. 1004 (1981).
When police have a reasonable and sincere fear that someone is in jeopardy and contraband might be destroyed, this usually constitutes sufficient exigency to justify a simultaneous, no-refusal entry. See McConney, 728 F.2d at 1206; Whitney, 633 F.2d at 909-10.
Exigencies created by the government cannot be the basis for excusing compliance with the warrant requirement. See, e.g., United States v. Hackett, 638 F.2d 1179, 1183-85 (9th Cir.'80), cert. denied, 450 U.S. 1001 (1981); United States v. Curran, 498 F.2d 30, 34 (9th Cir.'74). The rule has been applied only in cases where exigencies arose 'because of unreasonable and deliberate [conduct] by officers,' in which the officers ' consciously established the condition which the government now points to as an exigent circumstance.' See, e.g., Curran, 498 F.2d at 34 (emphasis added); Hackett, 638 F.2d at 1183; United States v. Calhoun, 542 F.2d 1094, 1102-03 (9th Cir.'76), cert. denied, 429 U.S. 1064 (1977). an honest miscommunication is not a case where the government purposely tried to circumvent the requirements of section 3109. Cf. Hackett, 638 F.2d at 1184-85; Curran, 498 F.2d at 33-34.
jonesfarm
Active Member
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2011
- Messages
- 26
- Reaction score
- 1
thanks for the reply but I just got out of Prison
Since they were not involved in a police investigation and were only "Making sure I was not in need of assistance" they can do anything they want.
Get a Lawyer is a great idea if you have a whole big pile of money
otherwise your out of luck
We live in a police state and they warp the law any way they want
Since they were not involved in a police investigation and were only "Making sure I was not in need of assistance" they can do anything they want.
Get a Lawyer is a great idea if you have a whole big pile of money
otherwise your out of luck
We live in a police state and they warp the law any way they want
rotten_socks420
'N The Mountains YO!
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2011
- Messages
- 391
- Reaction score
- 7
So whatcha want then?jonesfarm said:
ozzydiodude
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2008
- Messages
- 9,143
- Reaction score
- 4,332
Then unless you walkout a free man with a total discharge of your sentence, you've violated your parole. So you should know to get a lawyer. Buy her being "worried about your safety" the cops felt they had EXIGENT CIRCUMSTANCES to enter your house to see if you needed medical assistance.
You really need to got to a norml web site and find a lawyer in your area.
You really need to got to a norml web site and find a lawyer in your area.
Old_SSSC_Guy
incorrigible reprobate
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2007
- Messages
- 692
- Reaction score
- 56
just an opinion but i'm with ozzy.
normally you maybe could fight the grounds for the intrusion but if you're on parole or probation, they do not need grounds at all. leaving the joint they might pull their finger out of your nether regions but they are still there in spirit. only after you crest your parole period do you regain basic constitutional rights.
on the minor plus side though, your PO can make it all go away and be ignored if he/she is on your side.
normally you maybe could fight the grounds for the intrusion but if you're on parole or probation, they do not need grounds at all. leaving the joint they might pull their finger out of your nether regions but they are still there in spirit. only after you crest your parole period do you regain basic constitutional rights.
on the minor plus side though, your PO can make it all go away and be ignored if he/she is on your side.
S
StoneyBud
Guest
jonesfarm said:
Sorry to hear about the rough times you've been in.
As I've aged, I've studied both history and current practices of law in many countries and times.
It comes down to staying off the grid and predicting future problems that might circumvent your freedom.
For instance; my property is gated and has a notice:
No entry is allowed for any reason without permission of the owner. For permission and/or information, call: (my cell and hard-line numbers and an alternate number for my attorney's 24 hour emergency line, as she smokes my weed also...and will defend me if necessary.)
If those numbers are called, anyone calling them will reach me. 24/7/365, no matter where I am in the entire world. At that time, I can either present myself at the gate and identify myself or do so at whatever police station they wish in whatever country or place I'm in.
That would eliminate any searches due to "checking my welfare". If they come in without contacting me on those numbers, anything they find is null and void, as they didn't use reasonable effort to contact me with the supplied information.
This is why that fence and gate was constructed. The advice is from an attorney and current to Florida law and in conjunction with federal laws on search and seizure.
I also have 24/7 color cams covering my entire acre and inside my home. The images are broadcast and stored both on the Internet and locally on a hard-drive and can be recovered regardless of what is done to the cameras.
My attorney says I've done all I can. The rest is up to fate. Like if my house caught fire while I wasn't there...tough cookies...I'm busted.
S
StoneyBud
Guest
Irish said:very good advice stoney. i use this same type of set up since i've engaged in indoor growing. it could make all the difference between your nightly sleeping arrangements......
what the heck are you doing growing at your physical addy while on paper? sheesh. unless,,,you are legal by being a card holder? but i still think that would have to be cleared through the po first! and if your in michigan, dont even ask!
I don't understand what you mean by "while on paper". Huh?
ozzydiodude
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2008
- Messages
- 9,143
- Reaction score
- 4,332
He's addressing the OP Stoney. Very few ppl walk out Free, you usually have to complete a parole(paper time)
S
StoneyBud
Guest
ozzydiodude said:
whoops, I thought he meant me....hehe
Now I understand...
ozzydiodude
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2008
- Messages
- 9,143
- Reaction score
- 4,332
WTH you understand not smoking tonight Stoney
S
StoneyBud
Guest
ozzydiodude said:WTH you understand not smoking tonight Stoney
Yeah, a friend dropped by and left me with some bud he got hold of.
Great high to it. Smokes nice and smooth too. He had no idea what it is. Just "something" a friend of his had.
I'm about to call it a night though. It's 3am here.
Later!
Mutt
Just a Dawg
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2006
- Messages
- 9,331
- Reaction score
- 5,025
This is the reason I live out in the woods, with only a tiny handful of friends and no neighbors and the only places i go to in town is the grocery store and the gas station...i even go out of town to go to the liquor store.. If you don't "appear" to exist then no one bothers ya.
Thanks for the info dude...always good to know the law.
Thanks for the info dude...always good to know the law.
jonesfarm
Active Member
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2011
- Messages
- 26
- Reaction score
- 1
I'm just relating something that happened to me
I've already pled and went to prison I'm out now on a program
I've been a member here for over three years .
I am using a new user name now because the DA tore my computer apart so I don't trust my old user name anymore
Stoney you dropped your old email address ; heads up. figured out who I am?
I've already pled and went to prison I'm out now on a program
I've been a member here for over three years .
I am using a new user name now because the DA tore my computer apart so I don't trust my old user name anymore
Stoney you dropped your old email address ; heads up. figured out who I am?
S
StoneyBud
Guest
jonesfarm said:
Check your PMs.
.
K
Kupunakane
Guest
Yo Ho Ho N,
My last half year in the service is where I learned how to be a professional ghost. No Joke, Mutt is absolutely correct in his comment about being low profile.
I am seen as a crotchety old man, kinda bent over, slow walking and smiles a lot. I always have a kind word, and I stay tightly groomed. I make a fuss over the officers that patrol around my area, always certain to wave an old mans wave at them. I grow a lot of flowers around my place, so it almost always smells perfumed by the plants. Heck I've even given small bundles to them to take home to their sweethearts. Nobody wants to even look twice at an old fart with a cane.
Get the picture wide screen ?
Being a ghost is exactly what I strive for, only now I'm busting a move to a state where It is ok, and as a ghost, there I can retire in peace hopefully never having to look over my shoulder again...
Fine tune those things that you do to remain safe, and thanks to Mutt and Stoney as well as Ozzie for the great imput. It does take a bit of a team if we are to ever win this battle of freedom...
smoke in peace
KK:cool2:
My last half year in the service is where I learned how to be a professional ghost. No Joke, Mutt is absolutely correct in his comment about being low profile.
I am seen as a crotchety old man, kinda bent over, slow walking and smiles a lot. I always have a kind word, and I stay tightly groomed. I make a fuss over the officers that patrol around my area, always certain to wave an old mans wave at them. I grow a lot of flowers around my place, so it almost always smells perfumed by the plants. Heck I've even given small bundles to them to take home to their sweethearts. Nobody wants to even look twice at an old fart with a cane.
Get the picture wide screen ?
Being a ghost is exactly what I strive for, only now I'm busting a move to a state where It is ok, and as a ghost, there I can retire in peace hopefully never having to look over my shoulder again...
Fine tune those things that you do to remain safe, and thanks to Mutt and Stoney as well as Ozzie for the great imput. It does take a bit of a team if we are to ever win this battle of freedom...
smoke in peace
KK:cool2:
jonesfarm
Active Member
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2011
- Messages
- 26
- Reaction score
- 1
I wasn't in a program at the time
I never had anything more than a ticket for a burned out tail light before this
They initially wanted to give me 20 years.
I'm out in less than one (albeit in a draconian program) shows you how twisted the system is don't it?
Wish I had put Stoney's notification on my door ,that would have spared me a ton of organic
I never had anything more than a ticket for a burned out tail light before this
They initially wanted to give me 20 years.
I'm out in less than one (albeit in a draconian program) shows you how twisted the system is don't it?
Wish I had put Stoney's notification on my door ,that would have spared me a ton of organic
S
StoneyBud
Guest
jonesfarm said:
I wish you'd used my notice also. It would have prevented the entire thing. The cops would have called you, spoke with you and went back to Dunkin Doughnuts.
My only worry is a fire. I've done all I can to prevent it ever happening, but the thought is always just one moment away when I'm out.
I have a few big fire extinguishers in case it ever happens while I'm home.
I'll claim it was all vegetables after a fire. Let them prove it wasn't. (Sounds good to me anyway and allows me to keep from going nuts)
Budders Keeper
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2009
- Messages
- 908
- Reaction score
- 332
StoneyBud-
Ditto. So much I've even gone out and checked "the room" when I heard sirens approaching. Yes, I was really stoned.
Ditto. So much I've even gone out and checked "the room" when I heard sirens approaching. Yes, I was really stoned.
Mutt
Just a Dawg
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2006
- Messages
- 9,331
- Reaction score
- 5,025
Just make sure you keep on top of those fallen fan leaves in the grow floor.
Online friend of mine got busted several years ago from a shorted out ceiling fan. It wasn't in the grow but fire spread into the grow. Thing was even in all that heat...heat rises. The leaves on the floor of his grow not all of em "burned up". He got slapped with probation as no "real" evidence of how big his op was..
Still one extra reason to clean up.
