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My very first clones or... the woes of 3 strains.

puasurfs

da kine brah
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;) Aloha one and all~

I've been "lurking" for a few weeks in anticipation of this grow project so lemme begin by saying that, 1.) I have missed you all terribly and, 2.) :holysheep: Congrats to ROSEBUD! Am I (or was I) loaded or didn't I see ur name in RED? I am so looking forward to catching back up on all ur grow journals and in "catching back up" with you in general, so lemme begin.

Today marks 4 wks. into my very first (successful) cloning project and I will attempt to give a brief discription of what's going on thus far:

I took 12 cuttings each because I was certain the "mortality-rate" to be much lower but to my surprise they all lived... kinda. I am beginning to understand when I read "strain-specific" they're not joking around. Its so different doing it from a seed, I had no idea how different these clones would act, the difference in the "rooting" and taking root was staggering in an interesting way.

My indica SWD (BC Sweet Dreams) rooted first and quick and was strong and transplanted after about 10 days. The Sour Diesel took about a week after that and the AK-47 about a week after that which currently brings us to this week of everyone doing well in dirt... almost.

I am currently usung a mixture of FF soils ammended with geo-hummus but seems like my soil is reading a higher PH then usual. I mean it use to always be right at 6.8-7.0, but now is like 7.0-7.2. Is that ok for the nutes to be able to absorb? I did NOT put any dolomite in and I prolly should have.

Anyway... I am having a problem with the indica. It rooted first, grew fast, and then when I transplanted it the leaves got kinda thick, and krinkle-ee and thicker, and does not look right. My camera is not that great and I cannot find an instance of it in the threads here either, well not exactly.

The other thing is that the SoD's (sour diesel) leaves are twisting a lil. Just a few but I believe I read N deficiency. Wondering how that could be since I just put them in awesome dirt.

The AK is fine so far, the last to bloom and the most beautiful (and healthy) of all. Weird... jus sayin. OK... and now for my next trick I will attempt to recall in my brain how exactly to up load pictures :laugh:
Much aloha~

S7300345.JPG
Indica SwD and her "rough and krinkle-ee" leaves.
S7300351.JPG-Indica SwD

S7300342.JPG-SoD S7300343.JPG-SoD and her twisted leaves.

S7300337.JPG-AK-47, so far she's ok. S7300352.JPG-My backwoods set up, so to speak.
 

Rosebud

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Welcome back, you were missed!

Looking pretty good up there Pua.

I have not grown sour diesel myself and that crinkle thick leaf may be strain specific, I don't know. Others will come by that know.

I agree that it is way to early to have a deficiency in FF.

So I am really no help, I think they look pretty good. But, it is great to see you back. Glad you came out of lurking.
 

Rosebud

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Bump, does anyone else have an opinion?
 

Iron Emmett

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Nute Overload can make your leaves curl, you feeding her heavy?
 
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I am so new to soil growing that I cannot offer any advise....however, welcome back! I'm sure that someone should be able to help you out here.
 

SquidyPacheco

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Aloha :ciao: Humidity, Heat, or Nute overload possibily, could possibly be genes too.. anyways good luck on your grow.. growing in the tropics with out an ac is rough... If you dont have a ac im a bet on it be humidity..

A Hui Hou
SquidyP
 

puasurfs

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Iron Emmett said:
Nute Overload can make your leaves curl, you feeding her heavy?
Not exactly. When I transplanted them the first time I used the same soil recipe but a much smaller container. I guess I didn't wait long enough of a time to gauge if it was too hot (the soil) because the indicas were perfect. Were...
 

puasurfs

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The Hemp Goddess said:
I am so new to soil growing that I cannot offer any advise....however, welcome back! I'm sure that someone should be able to help you out here.
Aloha THG!!! I was just noticing ur very clever and informative soil grow. You do the most interesting grows I tell ya! Thank you it's good to be back... Even tho I'm bringin ya problems (as per usual).:D

I wonder if flushing the indicas (heavy) with pure water PH'd @ what? 7.0? And see if I can't remove some of the nutes in the soil? They are growing but I feel they are stunted.
 

puasurfs

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SquidyPacheco said:
Aloha :ciao: Humidity, Heat, or Nute overload possibily, could possibly be genes too.. anyways good luck on your grow.. growing in the tropics with out an ac is rough... If you dont have a ac im a bet on it be humidity..

A Hui Hou
SquidyP
Aloha nui loa~

Congrats on the BEAUTIFUL RED NAME BRAH~

I actually have to add humidity esp. When the ladies were very young, the mom's I grew from quality seeds (their words) and were exemplary specimens imo. It's plenny hot here but I have the temps in a decent range.

I concur tho... I think the amount of nutes in the soil, once moved to a larger pot was too much for them.:eek:

Have I damaged the DNA of the plant? I know they are resilient most times.
Should I use a "flush" of some sort?
 
R

Roddy

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:ciao: Pua!!

I did NOT put any dolomite in and I prolly should have.

Yes, that's likely the ph issue, need that added to keep the ph in place!

You may be running a touch hot, but if that's the majority of the damage, ride it out! I'd not flush, waste of good soil product, I think the gals will adjust! Now, if the problem persists or worsens....ph your water and maybe even check runoff for kicks.

Not sure if you can simply add lime to the soil at this stage, and :confused2:, my info could be crazy out there, so if someone with better knowledge would like to throw their voice in....
 

puasurfs

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Roddy said:
:ciao: Pua!!

I did NOT put any dolomite in and I prolly should have.

Yes, that's likely the ph issue, need that added to keep the ph in place!

You may be running a touch hot, but if that's the majority of the damage, ride it out! I'd not flush, waste of good soil product, I think the gals will adjust! Now, if the problem persists or worsens....ph your water and maybe even check runoff for kicks.

Not sure if you can simply add lime to the soil at this stage, and :confused2:, my info could be crazy out there, so if someone with better knowledge would like to throw their voice in....
:ciao: Aloha Roddy!!!

How very nice to see you! Thank you so much for stoppin by and checkin this out. I feel like I'm going to need a lot of help here with these ladies so...

I have a coupl'a questions this morning like:
1.) Do I flip them to 12/12 @ about 18"? (This is going to be interesting since no one is the same size).
2.) Should I start LST NOW or wait until I transplant them into bigger (3 or 5 Gal. pots)? I am concerned about their roots being strong enough.
3.) Should I FIM them now or when I start the LST?


Funny you should mention "runoff" since I did test it the other day and it was like 6.5? The water was PH'd @ about 6.9-7.1 going in. (purified H2O with Cal/Mag added @ 50%). I'mma do a soil PH test right after my next cup of coffeeeeee...

I am reading today and "hardening-off" the remaining AK's. I will cull ALL but the very strongest these next couple of days. Besides the new moms I will select, I wonder how many clones will fit into my tent since no one is cooperating with my wishes for them to maintain uniform growth. ha ha ha ha :ciao:
 
R

Roddy

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You can flip a clone anytime you want, the smaller, the less you'll harvest in the end! I like to double, maybe even triple that size....but I like my gals big and beefy! What works for you!

They're plenty strong enough to handle whatever you decide to do, LST, FIM...whichever or both. You can FIM and train at same time or a bit before training or....lol, again, whatever works best for you. They're fine to "abuse" at this point!

I have a gal in veg right now, let her get about 20" tall and growing all normal-like...before tying her down and giving her a nice pinch. She's now about 10" tall, her branches are spread out to allow optimal light penetration, she's in a 10gallon smartpot and will eventually be about 6' around x 2' high when I finally flip her! This one from seed (of course) but will be doing the same to a few clones as well soon. However, the clones (long and slender with plenty of nodes) will be tied down to allow the branches to grow up, THEN I'll tie them down as well so the gals get massive! These gals are in the airpots (simple to transplant) and will be placed in 10gallon or bigger pots before I send them into bud...in about 1 month!

Hmmm....might be rambling :rofl: maybe I should :48:
 

SquidyPacheco

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puasurfs said:
Aloha nui loa~

Congrats on the BEAUTIFUL RED NAME BRAH~

I actually have to add humidity esp. When the ladies were very young, the mom's I grew from quality seeds (their words) and were exemplary specimens imo. It's plenny hot here but I have the temps in a decent range.

I concur tho... I think the amount of nutes in the soil, once moved to a larger pot was too much for them.:eek:

Have I damaged the DNA of the plant? I know they are resilient most times.
Should I use a "flush" of some sort?


Pua you heard the superstition eh??? about curling leaf plant??? if your leaf curl you going have one girl that act like one boy.:rofl: nah nah jus playin.. i used to believe if your leaf curled youd get hermies... :eek: i was also 15 at the time :rofl: the things we believed pre internet. lol , and whoa you have to add humidity?? you can have some of mine.. jars up 100% humidity and sends it to Pua:rofl:.. sounds like the dirts a tad hot.. at 4-6 nodes tie down then top. flip at 18-24 depending on stretch of strain. .. I want to grow some trees like Roddy. when i grow up.:D anyways best of luck with your grow ..

A hui hou
:ciao: SquidyP
 

puasurfs

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SquidyPacheco said:
Pua you heard the superstition eh??? about curling leaf plant??? if your leaf curl you going have one girl that act like one boy.:rofl: nah nah jus playin.. i used to believe if your leaf curled youd get hermies... :eek: i was also 15 at the time :rofl: the things we believed pre internet. lol , and whoa you have to add humidity?? you can have some of mine.. jars up 100% humidity and sends it to Pua:rofl:.. sounds like the dirts a tad hot.. at 4-6 nodes tie down then top. flip at 18-24 depending on stretch of strain. .. I want to grow some trees like Roddy. when i grow up.:D anyways best of luck with your grow ..

A hui hou
:ciao: SquidyP
Ahhhh... too good you wit da "stink-eye" da kine brah~ da lil wahine bett'a stay dat way, yeah? :eek:

But mahalo for the info about tying them down. everything is different from clones and so much of this is new. My biggest fear (ok second biggest) is what happened on my first grow which was that I allowed them to get too big ( I admit it, I could NOT control my kids, I'm one of "those" moms.). This time I'mma err on the side of smaller.

Thank you for the harassment... SquidyP. Feel free to "bring-it" any time! :) I feel right @ home now!

A hui hou :icon_smile:
 

puasurfs

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Aloha~

tee hee hee... I see it's 420 EVEYWHERE!

I decided to "flush" the indicas with plain water today as they needed watering anyway and I just couldn't sit here any more and think about me burning their lil roots. I fear that the growth cycles with clones are so quick that I don't have time to wait for them to catch up in growth. They're still growing up but not like they should be.

I FIM'd a couple AK's and topped a couple of the oher ones. I wanna see the difference first hand, side by side, with the same strain, etc.

My main source of concern (and stress) with this is that I must keep their size and consequently height in "check", so pah-leese check up on me when ya can, I need adult supervision.

So... "flip to 12/12 when @ 18-24", strain specific".
I know that the AK's and the Sour D's are not pure sativas but are more so then they are indica and have the ability to be tall :ignore: .
The Sweet Dreams is an indica and is suppose to stay short (not really for me tho).

Thank you for stoppin by~ :D
 
R

Roddy

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No adjusting is needed as long as you use 1c per cf of dolomite lime(fine). But this needs to take place long before the plants head into the medium. My water PH is 8.2 and it goes straight in like that, no adjusting.

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59433

Dolomite lime is a buffer which keeps ph in balance, why I said it could be why your problem with ph fluctuating! As I feared, too late to add now, though!

I fear that the growth cycles with clones are so quick that I don't have time to wait for them to catch up in growth. They're still growing up but not like they should be.

They look like normal clones to me. Clones won't grow like a seed does (Christmas tree shaped)....at least not imho! I think you worried too much, but I'm not there and it's hard to say!
 

puasurfs

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Dan K. Liberty said:
Aloha Pua :ciao: nice to see an island girl in here who can keep Squidy in line . . . hehe :aok:

Well I first looked at your pics and saw a couple things right away:
- surface of low leaves looks dark and shiny, almost a purplish lookin kinda sheen to em
- the indica has brown spots developing between the veins on the lower sets of leaves
- the "krinkle-ee" appearance as you call it . . . thats what i always called "puckering up"
- distortion and twisting on the sour diesel leaves, which are also gettin shiny down low

Then i read more and bingo !! This plants can't absorb iron/manganese cuz your soil pH is too high, so the tops are stealing it from the bottoms.

Dolomite lime adds calcium/magnesium and makes pH higher. You are adding cal/mag supplement already and you want pH lower, so I recommend that you do NOT try to put any lime in the soil, its too late. This would give no advantage and actually make your problem worse at this point.

I say the target you wanna get the soil at is pH 6.5. You say it's now at 7.0 - 7.2 and runoff is at 6.5? Make sure your meter is ok, this is critical. If your feed solution is at 7.0 and the soil is at 7.0, the runoff should be 7.0 too - no change or maybe a slight dropoff of .1 - .2.

Since the soil is high, pH your water/nute mix lower than normal, say down to 6.2 - 6.3 and that will start to bring down the soil pH too. Keep this up until the soil hits 6.5 . . . maybe even make up a 1/4 strength nute solution that has iron/manganese in it and spritz em down once a day for a few days as an emergency foliar dose. Follow this spritzing up with another spritz of your purified H2O to wash off residual salts.

Here is a pH chart one of our fine outstanding friends here posted a couple months ago. I saved it for future reference cuz it's so good, and nute lockout is one of the most common problems we all face at one time or another as we guide our girls along toward the harvest.

Your setup looks great . . . I hope my advice is helpful !! :48: Guys, please adjust me on any of this too - its jm2c
:holysheep: First of all thank you for this (pencil and paper handy), I appreciate you takin the time to share this with me. I am reading right now about macro and micro nutrients, and will move on to "sources" of manganese and iron in a few minutes or just make a trip to the store and find something there.

I am hoping they will bounce back soon. Do you think I damaged them permanately? Because they look pretty sad today... :(
 

puasurfs

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Roddy They look like normal clones to me. Clones won't grow like a seed does (Christmas tree shaped)....at least not imho! I think you worried too much said:
Thank you Roddy for stoppin by~

I know, right? They are very different than from seed.
And yes... I prolly do worry way too much.

I read that marijuana is frequently planted next to disaster sites around the world, ie. radiation spills etc. because of their unique ability to absorb toxins and process them out of the earth so two things:

1.) There's a good chance my ladies will recover... eventually, and
2.) If my ladies do not recover I can liken my horticulture prowess (or the lack there of) to Chernobyl. :shocked:
 

puasurfs

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Dan K. Liberty said:
Also, here are a couple external links you can check out for more info if you wish:

hxxp://www.vegetable-gardening-gnomes.com/garden_lime.html

hxxp://5e.plantphys.net/article.php?ch=t&id=289

Mojo for your clones recovery . . . aloha !! :ciao:
:D Thank you Dan, esp. for the "mojo"~

I'mma go and check them out!
 

puasurfs

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Dan K. Liberty said:
HAHA Chernobyl . . . don't worry you can't damage the plants DNA. Sometimes clones will distort and grow weird after they are first rooted, but you say these were rooted and growing fine til you transplanted to new soil, so pH is most likely whts up with them.

I don't see you mention what youre feeding with, but it prolly has sufficient iron/manganese in it already . . . the high pH is just making them unavailable. Get the soil pH down and they will recover and be just fine:D
I am hoping for the best here and I will luv my girls even if they are a lil weird looking, it runs in my family. :D Funny thing tho is that I had them in the same soil but a smaller container so not as many nutes? idk. I watered the remaining plants today with water ph'd @ about 6.5-6.8 but it did not seem to reduce the soil ph by much but I will keep trying.

I am using all FF products at the moment with a great amount of mixed feelings. It'll have to do this go around but I wanna go organic next time.

Next watering I will add diluted nutes (unless you think I should add a lil now?). Almost everywhere I read that if I were gonna "flush" my plants to use a "diluted fert. mixture". I elected to NOT do this since I feel like there are still nutrients that are bio-available in this soil even if they are less abundant. Well thats how it is in my head anyway.

I'll take some pics in a few days. Until then I'm wearing a path into the room from my incessant pacing. More frozen snickers bars and less caffeine (never)! Thanks for stoppin by! :p
 
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