Mythbusters

sopappy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2015
Messages
1,839
Reaction score
55
Here we go again... I have been reading about growing and have actually been growing for about 5 years and my BIGGEST complaint is the contradictory information that is out there.
I don't know if it is even possible (because this stuff is friggin 'black magic' if you ask me) but I'd like to see some myths busted.
Here's some if anybody wants to play:
(1) Adjust PH of water for seedlings
I see folks recommending targets and adjusting and then I read that acids and bases should NEVER be added to water for seedlings so it is NOT a good idea to PH the water.
whattheheck?
Do I or don't I, ff's?
(2) No nutes until the 3rd set of real leaves (the seed contains all it needs)
and then I get smacked for not giving them THRIVE (B1 supplement) and sure enough, I read the label which suggests amounts for seed SOAKING and germination.
whattheheck?
Do I or don't I?
 
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
16,526
Reaction score
3,739
(1) Adjust PH of water for seedlings
I see folks recommending targets and adjusting and then I read that acids and bases should NEVER be added to water for seedlings so it is NOT a good idea to PH the water.
whattheheck?
Do I or don't I, ff's?
I don't ph the water for my plants until I begin feeding them. A proper PH is needed for the plant to uptake nutrients from the soil. If you are not feeding them, which is the case with seedlings then the PH is not that important so long as it is not overly acidic or alkaline.Once I start feeding I ph everything that goes into my soil to 6.5.




(2) No nutes until the 3rd set of real leaves (the seed contains all it needs)
and then I get smacked for not giving them THRIVE (B1 supplement) and sure enough, I read the label which suggests amounts for seed SOAKING and germination.
whattheheck?
Do I or don't I?
I don't generally put a number of sets of leaves on when I start feeding, I go more with when they start looking a little hungry and start with light feedings at first. I have never used THRIVE or anything else for seed soaking. Just plain water. I do add sweet lime to my soil mix as it helps stabilize ph and is a source of additional nutrients.

jmo
 

Rosebud

Organic dirt farmer
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
23,146
Reaction score
6,215
Lots of people use lots of methods. I sow directly in dirt and like it that way. I am an organic dirt farmer and i don't ph anything. 1. no 2 when the first set of leaves, the cotyledons turn yellow then i add food.
Superthrive is ok if you want to use it... I have used it and not used it... personal preference.


take a read of this....http://mandalaseeds.com/Guides/Germination-Guide my personal favorite.
 

sopappy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2015
Messages
1,839
Reaction score
55
I don't ph the water for my plants until I begin feeding them. A proper PH is needed for the plant to uptake nutrients from the soil. If you are not feeding them, which is the case with seedlings then the PH is not that important so long as it is not overly acidic or alkaline.Once I start feeding I ph everything that goes into my soil to 6.5.


I don't generally put a number of sets of leaves on when I start feeding, I go more with when they start looking a little hungry and start with light feedings at first. I have never used THRIVE or anything else for seed soaking. Just plain water. I do add sweet lime to my soil mix as it helps stabilize ph and is a source of additional nutrients.

jmo

I'm using distilled water with PH of 4.5 You use tap water with PH of 8 or more? <<<<<< WRONG! sorry, didn't rinse metre 8.0 this morning
I'm thinking 4.5 is closer to 6.0 than 8.0 so I'm leaning towards
"do not adjust PH for seedlings"
Although I admire your sensitivity to the plant, I wouldn't know a hungry plant from a hungry hippo :)... so I'm stuck with 3rd set of leaves for now :) -thanks for your take on this.
 
Last edited:

sopappy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2015
Messages
1,839
Reaction score
55
Lots of people use lots of methods. I sow directly in dirt and like it that way. I am an organic dirt farmer and i don't ph anything. 1. no 2 when the first set of leaves, the cotyledons turn yellow then i add food.
Superthrive is ok if you want to use it... I have used it and not used it... personal preference.


take a read of this....http://mandalaseeds.com/Guides/Germination-Guide my personal favorite.
I used to plant seeds in potting soil and had just O K results (so-so yields) but trying to improve things, I started running in to all these contradictions. I'm wondering if I might be better off chucking the metre hahaha I like the cotyledons tip, might be better than counting leaves.
and thanks for the link!
 
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
16,526
Reaction score
3,739
I'm using distilled water with PH of 4.5 You use tap water with PH of 8 or more?
I'm thinking 4.5 is closer to 6.0 than 8.0 so I'm leaning towards
"do not adjust PH for seedlings"
Although I admire your sensitivity to the plant, I wouldn't know a hungry plant from a hungry hippo :)... so I'm stuck with 3rd set of leaves for now :) -thanks for your take on this.
My tap water usually has a ph around 7.5-7.7.
 

Dman1234

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Messages
853
Reaction score
91
Ph is important for the uptake of nutes, so no nutes, no need to ph adjust, imo. But i do use bottled water for seedlings and tap water when im feeding and ph'ing.
 

sopappy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2015
Messages
1,839
Reaction score
55
Ph is important for the uptake of nutes, so no nutes, no need to ph adjust, imo. But i do use bottled water for seedlings and tap water when im feeding and ph'ing.
Of course, PH is for nute uptake! And I knew that too, I just didn't make the connection, d'uh... I won't worry about that 4.5, thank you
I have to nitpick, I'm curious now... bottled or distilled?
 

umbra

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2007
Messages
12,295
Reaction score
14,084
I am in the process of teaching my son to grow. I am an organic soil grower. The first thing my son noticed was that there are many different ways to grow and the rules are more guidelines and not written in stone. Bottled or distilled...really?
 
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
19,438
Reaction score
8,313
Yes, there is a lot of differing opinions when it comes to growing cannabis. And some are okay and some aren't.

While 4.5 may be closer to 6.0 than 8.0, I am not sure why you believe that 6.0 is a pH to aim for? It is too low for soil grows and too high for hydro grows. Are you certain your distilled water is that low? Distilled should be close to neutral, which is 7.0. However for seedlings, the water will not need to be pH'd unless your water is way out of whack. IMO, a pH of 4.5 is too acidic for anything and I do question that pH reading from distilled water. How exactly are you measuring it? Some pH meters are not worth the space they take.

I never ever use products like Thrive for seedlings. I have never found the need. IMO, it is a good idea to know what you are giving plants and why. Just someone saying they do it is not good enough. There needs to be a scientific reason that is plausible. I, like Rosebud grow organic when I grow soil. I sow directly into my medium, which is organic. And do not give the plants anything that is not also organic.

Different plants are going to be able to go different amounts of time before you feed. A good rule of thumb is to feed when the cotydons start yellowing. And then, you start at a low dose, like 1/4 strength and slowly work up. Do not use soil that has nutrients or those moisture crystals in it. I do not use ANY Miracle Grow or Scott products because I hate Monsanto so much. When you do start feeding, I recommend using something formulated for cannabis.

Growing cannabis is complicated and it does take a lot of time, money, skill, knowledge, and love. And, of course, to make it more complicated, there are a lot of differing opinions. Why not tell us what you have in the way of equipment, how your space is set up and about your grows in general...medium, nutrients, temps, humidity, etc, etc.
 
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
16,526
Reaction score
3,739
Unless you have crappy well water I think tap water is usually fine. I don't even bubble my water. I just put it in 6 gallon containers and let it sit out till i get to use it. Sometimes it gets used straight out the tap other times it sits for days.
One of the biggest things that helped me with keeping ph stable is adding sweet lime. I don't remember having a ph problem since I started doing that.
 

sopappy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2015
Messages
1,839
Reaction score
55
My tap water usually has a ph around 7.5-7.7.
Sorry, Lewis, I glossed over your first comment re the PH being for nute uptake... I'm from CaNaDa and I'm a little slow ehhhhhh (Ralph, Simpsons)
Dman had to tell me AGAIN.
-thanks
 

pcduck

Feed the soil, not the plant
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
14,299
Reaction score
7,286
Distilled water should be neutral or pretty darn close to it.
 

sopappy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2015
Messages
1,839
Reaction score
55
I am in the process of teaching my son to grow. I am an organic soil grower. The first thing my son noticed was that there are many different ways to grow and the rules are more guidelines and not written in stone.

Bottled or distilled...really?
Yup, I'm going crazy here. I was doing just fine for a couple years and then all of a sudden, the walking dead. They sprout and STOP. Hmmmm all 10 seeds bad?? Tried another store. Same thing. Hmmmmm, must be me. What am I doing different?
Bottled water is tap water, distilled water is not. I'd use THRIVE with distilled water but not with tap water, that's how nuts I'm getting....

wait, there's more: I seed half inch (MEASURED) deep in coco/perlite medium. I DO NOT pour a spoonful over the seed to keep it moist, I spray instead so the seed won't sink deeper. It's madness I tells ya.
But, before this meltdown, I actually grew a batch of NL that I was told I should enter in the CC and now I suck.
 

Joe420Camel

friendly stranger
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
1,131
Reaction score
139
over thinking.
a golf swing should be technically perfect but you cant be thinking technically while you swing

or

residual "something" on your equipment/room ?

I journal all my grows just to be able to look back and learn from the good and bad I've done in the past.
(all of 1+ year, 5 grows)
:48:
 

umbra

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2007
Messages
12,295
Reaction score
14,084
over thinking.
a golf swing should be technically perfect but you cant be thinking technically while you swing

or

residual "something" on your equipment/room ?

I journal all my grows just to be able to look back and learn from the good and bad I've done in the past.
(all of 1+ year, 5 grows)
:48:
it's the zen thing, of being in the moment
 

sopappy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2015
Messages
1,839
Reaction score
55
Distilled water should be neutral or pretty darn close to it.
Oh yah, thanks for that, neutral is 7.0, what the ? new metre... , brb

Milwakee MW802, manual says to wait until reading stabilizes.
I sit the probe in the water and watch the readings decrease.
When it flops back and forth between two readings I figure it's about to stabilize but when I move the probe, it drops... I can do that all the way down to 5.8
but if I was in touch with my feelings, I might have noticed it seemed to pause longer on the 7.0 before it dropped again.
So, I guess I'll just pull the metre out when I like the number.
$ 200- g-d metre and I still have to follow a hunch?

I'm getting used to it now. I rinse after every use and cleaned it with a dip in vinegar before I put it away but I wasn't rinsing off the vinegar well enough. Now I leave it on under the tap until pH reads 8.5 and I know it's clean (and ready). I also found that it makes more sense if i just wait until pH stops, alternates between two readings and I stick with the higher one. At least things seem consistent now. PPM is straightforward and fast.
 
Last edited:

pcduck

Feed the soil, not the plant
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
14,299
Reaction score
7,286
Will bounce back and forth. Nothing in it to stabilize it.
 

sopappy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2015
Messages
1,839
Reaction score
55
over thinking.
a golf swing should be technically perfect but you cant be thinking technically while you swing

or

residual "something" on your equipment/room ?

I journal all my grows just to be able to look back and learn from the good and bad I've done in the past.
(all of 1+ year, 5 grows)
:48:
I love the golf swing analogy and yes, I know I'm doing that but after hundreds on seeds, you start to get a little upset. To say nothing of utility bills, nothing pisses me off more than keeping the walking dead in light, heat 21C ambient (furnace duct), 21C medium, (mats) 60RH, the osc.fan even has a gentle breeze position for the fussy bastids.
I just don't get it.

Equipment? how do you mean? Contamination? No outside air going in there right now, it's from the house furnace duct but there's a filtre.
The room is sealed with Panda paper and great ventilation. The pots always get rinsed but I don't use bleach. I'm tidy in there.

The medium is COCO brick from Home Hardware.... I rinsed it but you got me to wundrin now... http://tinyurl.com/lvrrlnw

I guess I didn't rinse it well enough because I found a method to check re ppm and runoff and it's awful stuff according to the test. I'm flushing trying save things here, I won't buy it again.
 
Last edited:

sopappy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2015
Messages
1,839
Reaction score
55
Will bounce back and forth. Nothing in it to stabilize it.
I only used distilled for seeds so I don't care about it's pH anymore hahaha

But would you mind looking at this http://tinyurl.com/lvrrlnw <<<< I won't buy it again
I mix 50/50 with perlite and I rinsed it.
 
Last edited:
Top