Need help with fluoro question

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I have a few plants in veg and i am using a 45w 2700 lumen compact flouro with a kel rating of 6500 daylight the box says white light not cool white is this a good bulb and before i buy more I would like to know what is the best compact flouros for veg like what kind of light and kelvin rating. And before i get scolded I will be getting two 250w hps for vegging later on
Thanks guys for any help
 

KADE

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hps are great for vegging too! they put out a lot of lumens per watt.
 

Elephant Man

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No scolding here, 6500k is great for veg, same spectrum as a metal halide.
 

ob1kinsmokey

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yea i personally would never suggest using an hps for veg. i would rather use cfls. the single spectrum is bad for cell division. makes for skinny skraggly plants that cant hold their own weight and compinsate usually by slowing down even more in growth. But hey if thats all you got, not doubt it will do the trick.

thats the thing about MH most people dont know is that it is a quad spectrum light. it actually fluctuates in spectrum about every second going through 4 different spectrums. if you face a video camera or digital camera into your growroom you can see this happening- where as an HPS is single spectrum- so you can see how much harder it is for the hps to keep up with the MH when it comes to veg.

i happened to have done alot with cfls in my time, with covert setups. honestly there are so few manufacturers that make sunlight and white cfls that the intinsity isnt going to flux much between them. In, that you are seldom going to find 2 different cfls, of the same wattage with different lumens and intensity- or atleast drastically different.

my favorite place is osh. they carry the 'sunlight' cfls which are your vegging of course. they say sunlight in the top right hand corner.

and then there is your 'warm white' cfls which go good for your flowering.

some tips when using cfls and LF fluoros- intensity means everything (as is with every light you use)- the closer you bunch your fluoros together, the more intensity they put off collectively - which means more penetrating light. and the more dense your light- which is all the good in both veg and flowering.

note-as a good thing to know. that wattage means less when your intensity is lacking. only when you get your intinsity down can you accomplish every growers ambition - to get a gram or more per watt.

-max intensity and wattage is appx. 30w per sq/ft for veg. (or 5w per cubic foot)
-and 60w per sq/ft for flowering (10w per cubic foot)

also remember that the most light output and intensity comes from the side of cfls- and not from the tip. good luck!
 

Elephant Man

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ob1kinsmokey said:
yea i personally would never suggest using an hps for veg. i would rather use cfls. the single spectrum is bad for cell division. makes for skinny skraggly plants that cant hold their own weight and compinsate usually by slowing down even more in growth. But hey if thats all you got, not doubt it will do the trick.

thats the thing about MH most people dont know is that it is a quad spectrum light. it actually fluctuates in spectrum about every second going through 4 different spectrums. if you face a video camera or digital camera into your growroom you can see this happening- where as an HPS is single spectrum- so you can see how much harder it is for the hps to keep up with the MH when it comes to veg.

i happened to have done alot with cfls in my time, with covert setups. honestly there are so few manufacturers that make sunlight and white cfls that the intinsity isnt going to flux much between them. In, that you are seldom going to find 2 different cfls, of the same wattage with different lumens and intensity- or atleast drastically different.

my favorite place is osh. they carry the 'sunlight' cfls which are your vegging of course. they say sunlight in the top right hand corner.

and then there is your 'warm white' cfls which go good for your flowering.

some tips when using cfls and LF fluoros- intensity means everything (as is with every light you use)- the closer you bunch your fluoros together, the more intensity they put off collectively - which means more penetrating light. and the more dense your light- which is all the good in both veg and flowering.

note-as a good thing to know. that wattage means less when your intensity is lacking. only when you get your intinsity down can you accomplish every growers ambition - to get a gram or more per watt.

-max intensity and wattage is appx. 30w per sq/ft for veg. (or 5w per cubic foot)
-and 60w per sq/ft for flowering (10w per cubic foot)

also remember that the most light output and intensity comes from the side of cfls- and not from the tip. good luck!
Nice!:clap: Sounds like someone who has done some testing:cool2: . In my grow journal I'm going to go full cycle with some clones, my first grow. Got 4 overdriven flouros and 4 regular sidelights, around 600 watts and 36k+ lumens for 8 sq ft, just for fun little experiment. Thanks for the info, sounds like I will make it:) .
 

ob1kinsmokey

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youll definetely make it. ive known alot of people who have grown some serious buds with fluoros. its all about how you work it. keep us updated
 

Hick

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-max intensity and wattage is appx. 30w per sq/ft for veg. (or 5w per cubic foot)
-and 60w per sq/ft for flowering (10w per cubic foot)
maximun??..I think the "recommended minimum" is 3,000 lumen for veg(or approx. 30 watts of HID) and 5,000 lumen (or 50 watts p/sq.ft of HID) for flower.
I've never seen lighting measured by "cubic feet", (LxWxH)it isn't accurate. You should only consider floor space or the number of "square feet"(LxW).
i.e.,,2x2 space 10' ceiling = 40 cu.ft.
@ 10 w. p/cu.ft, it would require a 400 watter....yet floor space dictates "that" to be 100 watts p/sq ft...transposed to lumens, around 10,ooo p/sq.ft.
I've read somewhere that plants can only utilize about 8,000 L p/sq.ft.(80 watts p/sq.ft)
 

KADE

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ob1kinsmokey said:
yea i personally would never suggest using an hps for veg. i would rather use cfls. the single spectrum is bad for cell division. makes for skinny skraggly plants that cant hold their own weight and compinsate usually by slowing down even more in growth. But hey if thats all you got, not doubt it will do the trick.
Hps owns cfls hands down. It all comes down to Efficiency... I've never had a problem w/ hps... always used it... compared to MH it'll be slighty slower growth.. but not by much.
 

Elephant Man

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Hick said:
maximun??..I think the "recommended minimum" is 3,000 lumen for veg(or approx. 30 watts of HID) and 5,000 lumen (or 50 watts p/sq.ft of HID) for flower.
I've never seen lighting measured by "cubic feet", (LxWxH)it isn't accurate. You should only consider floor space or the number of "square feet"(LxW).
i.e.,,2x2 space 10' ceiling = 40 cu.ft.
@ 10 w. p/cu.ft, it would require a 400 watter....yet floor space dictates "that" to be 100 watts p/sq ft...transposed to lumens, around 10,ooo p/sq.ft.
I've read somewhere that plants can only utilize about 8,000 L p/sq.ft.(80 watts p/sq.ft)
I agree completely Hick. I was commending this individual for adding this information because it sounds to me like it comes from someones experience. I have always calculated my goals in lumens per sq ft, regardless of whether it be flouros or HID. In my complete 'noobish', panicky first grow, so far I have very little experience to speak of. But, one thing I did notice after building my overdriven flouros, was their explosive growth, tight nodes, etc. About 3 weeks in I moved them under HID, first a 400w MH (4" vortex), then a 1kw hortilux eye (MH 6" vortex). I was pretty disappointed in their immediate stretching, even at MINIMAL distance (according to the charts), because they are mothers.

Of course, this is all opinion, but I think if you look at lumens and the charts, I think it is actual distance from tops, that will pull my experiment off. 36k+ lumens in 8 sq ft is under the recommended minimum for flower I know, but not by much. And even when overdriven with the added heat, my girls have 'grown into' the bulbs overnight, with no stress.

I have several HID, but I am doing this to satisfy my own curiousity. I live in an area where summer temps will nearly make growing impossible by any conventional means, especially if you consider this old house's limited fusing. Spikes, helicopters ,excessive heat are a problem for HID's, but not for flouros. While toying with this idea, I made alot of suggestions to alot of cabinet/closet grower's encouraging the use of flouros, only to shortly after be followed by 'your wasting your time without HID' posts. I feel for these guys, with limited funds, space etc. and by testing and DIY projects I feel, there could be some reward at the end for this 'overly scientific noob that rambles':eek: and others.

After all, It says in the MP growing guide you can bud with less (flouros), it just may take longer. I got my lupe ready and they will go 12 weeks if necessary.

At least, I think that's what it said, I got a small emergency over here at the 'lab' and will post about it tomorrow in my journal.

Eman
 

KADE

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You are not wasting time w/ flouros... I'd hope every person growing is using them somewhere in their grow... but cost wise and the works... a hps is cheaper.
I don't wanna know how much it would cost to have 120,000 lumens worth of flouros and sockets to put them in. That many in a closed area would create a lot of heat also.
But all in all... you absolutely 100% need flouros for growing... MH is just too hot when they have no roots.
 

Elephant Man

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KADE said:
You are not wasting time w/ flouros... I'd hope every person growing is using them somewhere in their grow... but cost wise and the works... a hps is cheaper.
I don't wanna know how much it would cost to have 120,000 lumens worth of flouros and sockets to put them in. That many in a closed area would create a lot of heat also.
But all in all... you absolutely 100% need flouros for growing... MH is just too hot when they have no roots.
Agreed Kade;) , I wasn't referring to your post, or any post you've made. I was actually referring to a general push or influence on guys in tiny growboxes with one or two plants to cram a HID in there, with no idea of the noise of cooling, heat issues etc. Mostly these posts are made by newer members. IMO ventilation and temperature control must be optimal before even considering an HID. I personally will not run one without a vortex or equivalent fan of appropriate size. I feel this cost should be included in the price of these $100 halides everyone posts about, especially when these guys are talking about trying to grow in a tiny enclosure. I love my 2 galaxy 400 swichables, and they each have their own vortex on thermostats, but I'm going to see what 600w of flourescents will do anyway.
 

KADE

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Elephant Man said:
Agreed Kade;) , I wasn't referring to your post, or any post you've made.
I know man... I hate you tho... because of your digy ballasts. =)
 

ob1kinsmokey

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hey i agree with hick too. that maximum is an approximation. it is definetely known that there are many factors that enable that to change.

hick definetely knows what he is talking about. most people do not measure their output in cubic feet because the average grower does not grow vertically.

but when you are using your vertical space- the volume of your grow room is as important if not more important than floor space. i simply like to show how one would work out an ideal level using both sqaure feet and cubic feet simply for the knowledge.

you also said hick that your read plants can only utilize about 80w per sq/ft. that is true, it is just not the ideal range for flowering growth imo -based on what i have come to learn- (with all other variables aside of course-)

although a plant may take up that much and not show signs like sunspots- it may loose its vigor do to the stress of such penetrating light.

80w per sq/ft is what i have heard to be as a maximum. the ideal wattage however, in my opinion for the most vigorous and stress free growth (again, with all other variables aside that may contradict that approximation depending on actual growing plans) - is 60w per sq/ft in flowering

as im sure you know there are many variables that can change this and truely ALL of what both you and i are saying are approximations. because of how widely grow conditions, strains, and phenotypes may range.

notice my diligant use of 'appx' in my first post. -- i covered my *** :)
 

ob1kinsmokey

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KADE said:
Hps owns cfls hands down. It all comes down to Efficiency... I've never had a problem w/ hps... always used it... compared to MH it'll be slighty slower growth.. but not by much.
hey good stuff. any HID is good news. but like you said it all comes down to efficiency. and if used efficiently,cfls can hold their own greatly when it comes to horizontal growth. in my experiences hps in veg has left me with weak cell walls and poor horizontal growth. but congrats to you on successful growth- it doesnt surprise me. again efficiency is key and you got it.

but again we must always stress that what is right for one may not be right for another. there are just too many variables to write much of anything in stone :)
 

KADE

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ob1kinsmokey said:
hey good stuff. any HID is good news. but like you said it all comes down to efficiency. and if used efficiently,cfls can hold their own greatly when it comes to horizontal growth. in my experiences hps in veg has left me with weak cell walls and poor horizontal growth. but congrats to you on successful growth- it doesnt surprise me. again efficiency is key and you got it.
Just get a big *** fan in there blowing around and ur plants will be nice and hearty... if u dont.. they'll be crappy weak celled plants that'll fall over and break 5 weeks into flower (as one of my friends found out.. what a mess.. looked like a hurricane went through his grow)
My plants always bush out nice under hps... however... when I take clones.. i take them from the bottom... I dunno if that makes a difference or not.
 

ob1kinsmokey

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yea all that air pressure is good for that bushin. taking clones from the bottom is prefered as far as i was aware. newer younger growth. although taking them closer to the top you allready have alot of girth on it before it even roots. but yea as far as i was aware taking clippings from the bottom is the way to go.
 

KADE

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ob1kinsmokey said:
yea all that air pressure is good for that bushin. taking clones from the bottom is prefered as far as i was aware. newer younger growth. although taking them closer to the top you allready have alot of girth on it before it even roots. but yea as far as i was aware taking clippings from the bottom is the way to go.
I just do that so the buds don't break up... I like the look of a BIG *** one on the top. Wrap her up in a newspaper and blaze one. =)
 

ob1kinsmokey

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**** yea, that head cola is like the big ole booty of her. you've got to love it. haha

i dont know if youve seen january '07s issue of high times- but the cover of it has a stocking with a whole bunch of buds sticking out of it.

from now on i told me wife that shes required to fill my stockings like so

only with stocking sized buds

its gunna be a good christmas...

sage.jpg
 

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