need some help carbo loading

TheChickenMan

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hello, i am new here. this is...my 5th grow, and the same with all that i have done, everything is light and fluffy, i cant get denseness to it (except afghan that one time...). i picked up a jug of carboloading stuff for 'tomatoes'. i use HID lighting, plenty of fan. i still have a CMH lamp, the girls LOVE it. got me a few verticals also, i drop one i the middle when the canopy forms. there's enough light :D i use canna line of nutes...i think everything is great, but i cant get the buds to be dense. at least after the dry, when t heir growing and wet thier mighty dense, hit someone with it and it would not only hurt, but stick lol right now the girls are in their first week of flower and everything is happy. any ideas on t his carboloading stuff? should i run that when i stop all other nutes, flush? or should i run that from week 6ish on until flush? anyone got any idea on the dosage? i have tried molasses, but it clogged the air stones real teal bad...wont do that again. i know my typing is bad and grammar is worse, but at least i don't dangle my prepositions!
 

pcduck

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What type of HID lamps do you use? HPS? MH?
High temps, strain, not enough lumens of the proper light, and not enough food are a few things that will cause fluffy buds.
 
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I have never found that Carbo-Load stuff to do anything, but make my pocketbook lighter.

The denseness of the bud depends on several things, like duck mentioned. Tell us exactly how your space is set up and what strain you are running--size of the space, the size and type of HIDs you are using, exactly how your ventilation is set up, what your temps and RH run, etc, etc. The more info you give us, the better we will be able to help you. Some strains just produce fluffier buds. So tell us what strain you are growing and the breeder. some strains are simply better than others. Just as you cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, you cannot grow great dank bud if you do not start with good genetics.

You mention air stones...are you growing hydro? If so, what type? What do you feed the plants, how much, do you regulate your pH, do you check your ppms, how long do you veg, how long do you flower, etc, etc?

Also, most of us do not flush our plants unless we have a nutrient overload or some other kind of problem that actually requires flushing. IMO, it is extremely detrimental to plant growth to flush it and cut off its food the last 2 weeks to 10 days or whatever you do. You are asking the plant to bulk up, but you are starving it. I equate this with starving a marathon runner before the race so he weighed less. It is worse if you are growing hydro as the plants get all their nutrients from what you put into the water. What I usually do after the last res change before harvest is just top up the res with water rather than nute solution.
 

TheChickenMan

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here it goes...
right now i have 1 'EYE' and 1 CMH in reflectors. (the girls like cmh more). after the canpy forms i hang a vertical and get the buds under the canopy HUGE!. the temp did get outta hand a few times, duck tape came loose n such. other than that i have kept the temps good, about to install an AC. as for fans, i have 3 16 inch occialting fans, and 1 89 inch hydro venhinlation fan. i have a 7x7x7 room/cube. 1 corner is used up by tubing and fans. so i have about a 5x7x7 area. the air stones i use are large, each bucket has 2. i tried last crop, did 1/2 with 2 stones, that 1/2 did better, so they all get extra air now. i have 3 air pumps, them 20 watt jobs (their not loud if you sit them on a mouse pad). and the line of canna nutes. the carbo load stuff i got was only 20 bucks, and has to be better than molasses. i was thinkin i was messing up somewhere in the drying of it. with afghan 1 time, probably a mistake, it was great! but it was also 'wet' or resiny. not as dry as the other stuff. that might be an issue i have. the strains i am going for right now are skunk n thc bomb. both heavy yeilders, both live about the samwe amount of time. i can only harvest 1 at a time every week, so its going to be a slow drawn out harvest. i only have enough area to dry for 1 plant.

i think all in all i have a nice setup, took almost 2 years to get everything. oh, i use hsp for flower, and mh for veg...now. chm's don't need to be swapped, they have a full complete color spectrum. wish they still made em. each light is 400 watt. id prefer 6 200's tho
 
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I can tell you right off the bat that you are way underlit--and that is probably the major reason for not having dense buds. Even if you are only using a portion of the room, unless you have partitions set up, the light is disbursing throughout the entire space and the entire space should be accounted for when figuring lighting needs. A space of 49 sq ft is going to take about 2000W to illuminate adequately. Even if you put up some kind of reflective partition (they are easy to make), you still have 35 sq ft to illuminate and this is going to take probably a 1000W and a 600W. While technically, 2 600W would give you minimal coverage, I believe you would be disappointed with 2 600W in there. Most of us run 2 600W in 16-20 sq ft. Lighting needs are generally figured as lumens per sq ft. You want a minimum of 3000 lumens per sq ft for vegging and 5000 for flowering (keep in mind that these are minimums). A 400 MH is going to put out about 36,000 lumens, a 400W HPS is going to put out 40,000-50,000 lumens. You need 175,000 lumens and you are running at best probably 86,000.

The Carbo Load I got was probably about the same, but I never saw any improvement when I used it. Every now and then I think that I am going to try some new bloom booster, but pretty much get the same results from all of them...nothing special.
 

TheChickenMan

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im way underlit??
***
1200 watt of HID isnt enough????

*** do you want from people. i could make 2 200 watss work, i surely can make 3 400's work. if you did any reading at allyou would know that lights of a lower wattage are BETTER for tje plant than 1 of high wattage. EG 5 200's are better than 1 1000.
you are incorrect, please stop talking to me godess
 

Joe420Camel

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...if you did any reading at allyou would know that lights of a lower wattage are BETTER for tje plant than 1 of high wattage. EG 5 200's are better than 1 1000.
you are incorrect, please stop talking to me godess

you come here asking for help and then tell "us" to stop giving you advice...

If you already know it all why are you here?

Did you even read her entire post before you and your wounded E-penis responded??


Sorry.
I keep forgetting, it's not your fault...
The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than is accurate. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their ineptitude. Conversely, highly skilled individuals tend to underestimate their relative competence, erroneously assuming that tasks which are easy for them are also easy for others.
[Translation: You can't even see outside your own little world to fathom you aren't the greatest grower there ever was.]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect


.

View attachment Internet-Troll.jpg
 
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Joe420Camel

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im way underlit??
***
1200 watt of HID isnt enough????

*** do you want from people. i could make 2 200 watss work, i surely can make 3 400's work. if you did any reading at allyou would know that lights of a lower wattage are BETTER for tje plant than 1 of high wattage. EG 5 200's are better than 1 1000.
you are incorrect, please stop talking to me godess

Although totally deserved... let me re-word my last post.

[ANGRY about the *cop killing* in Brooklyn, NY 12/20/14 and you got sucker-punched]


lights of a lower wattage are BETTER for tje plant than 1 of high wattage. EG 5 200's are better than 1 1000.
Sorry to say but your facts are backwards: 1 BIG light > [greater than] 2 small lights of equivalent wattage, type etc.

BAM! DONE. OVER. just stop.

Given the EXACT same "natural" setup, 1 [one] 1000w HPS fixture will out produce/perform 2 [two] 500w fixtures.
[unless you rig the test and force the room layout to the 2-sources' (1/2 power) advantage.]

Your wattage is SWEET!!

I only WISH I could deal with that much HEAT!
where do you dump / how do you cool that much (non LED) wattage?

anyway...

i have a 7x7x7 room/cube. 1 corner is used up by tubing and fans. so i have about a 5x7x7 area.
focus that wattage man!
Don't waste it lighting the WHOLE ROOM!!

Rig-up some reflective screens or something.
Blow us away with your ingenuity!

right now i have 1 'EYE' and 1 CMH in reflectors. (the girls like cmh more). after the canpy forms i hang a vertical and get the buds under the canopy HUGE!. the temp did get outta hand a few times, duck tape came loose n such. other than that i have kept the temps good, about to install an AC. as for fans, i have 3 16 inch occialting fans, and 1 89 inch hydro venhinlation fan.
[where to start...]

..."1 89 inch hydro venhinlation fan"...
Please clarify.
I'm not familiar with fans that have ANY dimension listed over seven feet.

..."as for fans, i have 3 16 inch occialting fans"...
Room circulation you have in spades for now but after you confine and focus that wattage this may become an issue.

..."after the canpy forms i hang a vertical and get the buds under the canopy HUGE!."...
Yes, I bet the popcorn / under-bud get huge bro' -BUT- the top buds/leafs are confused from the light coming UP from the ground.


This is just a plant! Don't over think it, just give it what it wants!
First, it wants to be outside, but since that's not where you can (most of us) grow, lets try to replicate: 1 sun, up above. Cool, fertile, well watered ground down below. Warm but not too hot breezes, but not windy... you get my exaggeration. [RIGHT?]


-----


I (WE) can go on... there are a few other things that could help you grow, straight fire.
But I think, before we continue to help you, the next post is yours...


:48:
 
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TheChickenMan

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yea, i have a sweet setup, i did ask for assistance, and im told i have crap and its not enough? its way more than enough, i jsut have probs with keeping mass AFTER dring. godess, u should learn about flushing instead of saying its bad, its IMPOSSSABLE for the bud to loose weight, so your metaphore of starving a mammel does not even apply.

as for troll? i think not, i came here looking for useful information, and i got bombarded with 'you have ****, do it like me', and i cant even say 'i dont like your advice and go away', so, you all enjoy, im going to another forum where 1200 watt is enough light
 

pcduck

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:huh: All I know is I have never seen or heard of THG complaining about light fluffy buds.So maybe she does know what she is talking about.

7x7=49
49x5000=245,000 lumens needed to light your grow space properly.

3 four hundred watt =150,000 lumens at 50,000 lumens each.

You are way under lit. This is one reason why you are experiencing light fluffy buds.
 
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I have been growing for over 30 years. I got about 5.5 oz off the last plant I harvested.

You asked why you were getting light, airy buds, I told you. You NEED 5000 lumens per sq ft. However, I will not bother you again with advise.
 
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