Non-Stop Deficiency Battle (PICS)

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fortphoenix

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i flood and drain in rapid rooters/hydroton/1gal buckets. 400w A/C on 24/7, flood every 6 hours, 5.9PH 850ppm, RH 35-60% 72-78 degrees. nirvana ak48 are the bigger plants, sensi Northern Lights are the smaller ones

i made a lot of beginner mistakes when the plants were younger that stunted growth but they’re almost 2 months old (AK are about 2 weeks older than NL, NL went in the tray last week) and growth is still very slow and i been battling non-stop deficiency issues (thought i was calcium or nitrogen) I’ve tried using maxigro in different strengths with and without calmag and with and without r.o water and now I’m trying 5 parts flora micro with 4 parts flora bloom with 1/2 gram/gal epsom, making a perfect 3-1-2 ratio with r.o (121-40-81 with 122 calcium and 27 magnesium to be exact plus and extra like 13ppm from epsom) i know the NL and AK should be in separate trays but i don’t have that option right now

the problem is the fan leafs keep dying from the bottom and they’re showing spotting. the only fan leaves left on the AKs are the fan leaves at the top 3 nodes, I’ve also noticed the lower fan leaves are all really dry, especially on the northern lights the leaves are curling and crumbly with brown spots and I’ve also noticed the petioles are purple but I’ve seen people say AK48 just does that naturally but the NL have the purple too, also the new growth on the AK has yellow tips and the very newest growth has a brownish/red tint to it which has had me worried for a while

i also topped the all the plants exactly 9 days ago (tried to FIM lol) and i put a lighter next to the node where they were topped so you can see how much (how little) they’ve grown in the past 9 days (keep in mind i topped them again today so you couldn’t see the half inch of growth i took off the nodes i just topped)

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Your ppms are too high for a plant that size. 400ppm max for that plant.

How often are you feeding? I use Flora Micro and the most I have ever given is 3ml per gallon every other day, and that's on my 5' tall moms.
 
Tell us about your flood and drain....... how long is it taking to cycle? how long does it take to drain?..... are the plants left sitting in water?

I believe you could be over watering them.
 
Bet Your PH is off . What is your PH?
 
AluminumMonster said:
Your ppms are too high for a plant that size. 400ppm max for that plant.

How often are you feeding? I use Flora Micro and the most I have ever given is 3ml per gallon every other day, and that's on my 5' tall moms.
Click to expand...

thats what i was doing before (lower ppm) and was getting huge nitrogen deficiency isssues and even less growth and i read other journals of people growing AK and they all say ak48 like high ppm and after topping my res with plain water my ppm is always lower than the ppm is started with. as far as my northern lights id agree they could probably use less ppm but i only have 1 flood tray so the NL doesn't really have a choice
 
Grower13 said:
Tell us about your flood and drain....... how long is it taking to cycle? how long does it take to drain?..... are the plants left sitting in water?

I believe you could be over watering them.
Click to expand...

i keep the lights on 24/7 and flood every 6 hours (4 times a day) no they aren't left sitting in water, theres water sitting in the bottom of the tray but it doesn't touch the plants. but the give you an idea... if the flood starts at 6 than by 6:05 the water reaches the drain outlet, i let the pump stay on until 6:07 and once the pump shuts off, the tray is drained by 6:14

so, 5min to flood the tray, stays on 2 extra minutes, then shuts off and the water drains in 7min
 
WeedHopper said:
Bet Your PH is off . What is your PH?
Click to expand...

i just calibrated my ppm and ph today and they're both on point. my ph is at 5.9 and its been steady the past week, haven't added any PH adjuster and i haven't seen any PH drifts
 
New growth is looking good.. I dont like to change nutes unless I must. and if so I make sure the plants are flushed real good. Best of luck
 
fortphoenix said:
i flood and drain in rapid rooters/hydroton/1gal buckets. 400w A/C on 24/7, flood every 6 hours, 5.9PH 850ppm, RH 35-60% 72-78 degrees. nirvana ak48 are the bigger plants, sensi Northern Lights are the smaller ones

i made a lot of beginner mistakes when the plants were younger that stunted growth but they’re almost 2 months old (AK are about 2 weeks older than NL, NL went in the tray last week) and growth is still very slow and i been battling non-stop deficiency issues (thought i was calcium or nitrogen) I’ve tried using maxigro in different strengths with and without calmag and with and without r.o water and now I’m trying 5 parts flora micro with 4 parts flora bloom with 1/2 gram/gal epsom, making a perfect 3-1-2 ratio with r.o (121-40-81 with 122 calcium and 27 magnesium to be exact plus and extra like 13ppm from epsom) i know the NL and AK should be in separate trays but i don’t have that option right now

the problem is the fan leafs keep dying from the bottom and they’re showing spotting. the only fan leaves left on the AKs are the fan leaves at the top 3 nodes, I’ve also noticed the lower fan leaves are all really dry, especially on the northern lights the leaves are curling and crumbly with brown spots and I’ve also noticed the petioles are purple but I’ve seen people say AK48 just does that naturally but the NL have the purple too, also the new growth on the AK has yellow tips and the very newest growth has a brownish/red tint to it which has had me worried for a while

i also topped the all the plants exactly 9 days ago (tried to FIM lol) and i put a lighter next to the node where they were topped so you can see how much (how little) they’ve grown in the past 9 days (keep in mind i topped them again today so you couldn’t see the half inch of growth i took off the nodes i just topped)
Click to expand...


How much is 5 parts and 4 parts?....... as in how many ml per gallon?

Are you not using Grow along with micro and bloom?........ GH 3 part is what I use........ I top drip feed Gh 3 part in Coco chips in my grow. I've seen the purple stems and droopy leaves before.
 
Grower13 said:
How much is 5 parts and 4 parts?....... as in how many ml per gallon?

Are you not using Grow along with micro and bloom?........ GH 3 part is what I use........ I top drip feed Gh 3 part in Coco chips in my grow. I've seen the purple stems and droopy leaves before.
Click to expand...

you know what i just thought? i forgot to shake the bottles of nutes before i used them... could that cause an issue? i assume it could but i use 7.5ml micro 6ml bloom, no grow
 
I think your problem could be that you're not using part 1 of a three part nutrient line. I also use a three part line and don't eliminate the grow until the 4th week of the flower period. The 3 part nutrients are meant to work together at various amounts throughout the grow.
You might want to try mixing equal parts of all three as well as Calmag?
I always shake my bottles prior to every use. Not sure how much separation happens with synthetic nutrients...
 
bud88 said:
I think your problem could be that you're not using part 1 of a three part nutrient line. I also use a three part line and don't eliminate the grow until the 4th week of the flower period. The 3 part nutrients are meant to work together at various amounts throughout the grow.
You might want to try mixing equal parts of all three as well as Calmag?
I always shake my bottles prior to every use. Not sure how much separation happens with synthetic nutrients...
Click to expand...

well tomorrow morning I'm dumping the res and trying the lucas formula, which i don't think requires calmag if used with r.o water, correct? i just need to solve these deficiency issues I'm really concerned with the new growth being reddish because i can't find **** about it online
 
i have had similar leaves while growing in dirt with young plants before flip. once i started feeding after flip, it went away.
 
grass hopper said:
i have had similar leaves while growing in dirt with young plants before flip. once i started feeding after flip, it went away.
Click to expand...
This is a sign of too much P and K in veg. I have had the same problem using coco. I stopped using nutes with P and K in veg and the problem went away. I am literally using just Flora Micro which is 5-0-1.
 
at this point, less might be more. i'm with aluminum, you should be in the 400-500 ppm range based on the size they are right now. but lets put that aside, your problem isn't with your technique, but more your setup. i personally think you should either abandon the flood/drain, or revise your medium/setup you have currently. from the photo's it appears your plants are still in 4 - 5" net pots? are the net pots exposed to light all day long? where are the roots going to grow? don't worry about the older fan leaves. healthy new growth is what matters most. even if some of the new growth is coming is slightly yellowed. if the yellowing persists for the entire life cycle of the fan leaf, then u may have a deficiency, but u will see that same problem on subsequent growth. lots of times the yellowing will go away as the plant matures.

you should take some photo's of each plant individually (whole plant pic, net pot too) and label them when u post it. also, take photo's of your setup. i want you to seriously consider deep water culture, or a simple top feed system. easier to maintain. less **** to buy. keep it simple with the nutes too. find a reputable 3 part system, and add on a bottle of cal/mag with that, that's it. keep it simple when starting out.
 
I believe the root of your problem is in the roots. Or should I say not enough is in the roots. I think they are drying out too fast and that is killing the tiny feeder roots that take in the nutrients. I don't care for your feeding regimen either, however I have never worked with GH nutes so I can't say for sure. I know that I prefer to use all 3 of my 3 parts in ratio to each other throughout the grow, along with a good calmag additive as it is just too easy to do it, but I use AN Jungle Juice so I can't swear to my way working for Flora users.

If you are willing to lose one of the older plants, I would take it out just before the next watering and pour out all of the hydroton and see what the roots look like. See if they are seriously dried out as I suspect they are.
 
ShOrTbUs said:
at this point, less might be more. i'm with aluminum, you should be in the 400-500 ppm range based on the size they are right now. but lets put that aside, your problem isn't with your technique, but more your setup. i personally think you should either abandon the flood/drain, or revise your medium/setup you have currently. from the photo's it appears your plants are still in 4 - 5" net pots? are the net pots exposed to light all day long? where are the roots going to grow? don't worry about the older fan leaves. healthy new growth is what matters most. even if some of the new growth is coming is slightly yellowed. if the yellowing persists for the entire life cycle of the fan leaf, then u may have a deficiency, but u will see that same problem on subsequent growth. lots of times the yellowing will go away as the plant matures.

you should take some photo's of each plant individually (whole plant pic, net pot too) and label them when u post it. also, take photo's of your setup. i want you to seriously consider deep water culture, or a simple top feed system. easier to maintain. less **** to buy. keep it simple with the nutes too. find a reputable 3 part system, and add on a bottle of cal/mag with that, that's it. keep it simple when starting out.
Click to expand...


Hushpuppy said:
I believe the root of your problem is in the roots. Or should I say not enough is in the roots. I think they are drying out too fast and that is killing the tiny feeder roots that take in the nutrients. I don't care for your feeding regimen either, however I have never worked with GH nutes so I can't say for sure. I know that I prefer to use all 3 of my 3 parts in ratio to each other throughout the grow, along with a good calmag additive as it is just too easy to do it, but I use AN Jungle Juice so I can't swear to my way working for Flora users.

If you are willing to lose one of the older plants, I would take it out just before the next watering and pour out all of the hydroton and see what the roots look like. See if they are seriously dried out as I suspect they are.
Click to expand...

they're 1 gallon pots. i upped the floods to every 4 hours, floods for 5min and drains in 5min. my ph is at 5.8 now, i added lucas 5-10 lucas formula on friday which put the ppm at 760 and topped the res monday afternoon (with r.o water only) which put the ppm at 700. the new growth is green with slight yellow tips (the entire stem system on the NL is purple) but the growth still seems slow. someone mentioned to me it could be the roots giving me a problem from the rapid rooter staying wet from the floods (at the beginning the wet rapid rooters helped) so i lowered the flood levels so the RR could dry out. one thing i have noticed is out of all 4 plants i can only see one root (on the bigger AK48) at the bottom of the pot so been thinking it really probably is a root problem
 
 
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