Nutrient Burn or more sinister forces at work?!

the_riz

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Hey guys,

I was wondering if someone could help out with a minor/major (hopefully minor lol) problem..

Ive recently purchaced a full indoor hydroponics system,
everything has looked fine up until now, they were a nice healthy 2 inches with first leaves and signs of secondary's..

problem came when the water was changed for the first time, the plants drooped from the stalk unexpectedly pretty much 90 degrees down. This was corrected with carefully placed coctail sticks holding up the drooping babys, ph was fine, only difference is full strength nutreant solution was used as aposed to half strength as roots were visable in the matting.

They started to gain strength and all of a sudden a few of the leaves browned and crisped up suddenly in the space of about 4 hours.. Using an HPS light, running 6 inches above the tops, my first inclination was heat stress, so the light was moved up higher although not much improovement was noticed at first...

However the fact that full strength nutrient has been used, 'nutrient burn' appears to fit the scene as they worsen closer to where the pump introduces water to the system..

Should the pump be on 24/7? or should it be on a timed cycle of half an hour for every 3 hours?

Ive been running the pump 24/7 on low until this problem occured, and i read up on overwatering / nutrient burn.. So over the last few days I have rigged the pump on a timer to water the plants matting tray for half an hour every 3 hours, this seems to have improved the 2 plants further away from the pump, however the 1 closest to still seems weak, yellow/browny, and short.

The other two seem to have made a 80% recovery, with minimal drooping and second, even third leaves/branches showing through.

Does this sound like nutrient burn or is there something more sinister at work?

Also how high should an HPS light be from vegetative plants, i know there more reccomended for flowering however budget played a major part in decision of equipment..

Since in the second 2 plants secondary leaves look strong and branches are starting to become visable and are looking healthy aside from a tiny bit of brown on the tips (which looks much better than before), is there any chance of salvaging these??

Thanks for reading, Ill appreciate any input as im pretty green to this hobby (no pun intended) lol

Cheers
Riz
 
D

DLtoker

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Wowsers... I would say cut off all nutes until you get some real leaves on there. Definitely over ferted the little lady friends. Then when you get some real leaves, start the nute solution at a quarter of full strength.
With hydroponics you can not over water so keep the pump on at all times... especially if the roots arent in the water yet.
The light is too close for them at that size. Raise it a foot at least and you should be fine... Do that for two weeks I'd say and then start to lower the light a little every day.

If you want, take my advice for a spin... If not, I know someone else will be around to give you a hand as well. GL!:farm:
 

Brouli

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man thats to fast you can dive them that much nutes on this stage of their life, 1/4 is everybody i using personaly for first 2 weeks i do not use anything only tap water
 

Brouli

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tham u used hps lights on 6 inch distance from the top thats to that is = to super heat man foot , foot and a half i would recomend
 

the_riz

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Hey nice one. thanks :D

As i said there lookin much better, light has been raised a foot or so and the pump is not on 24-7 but regularly every couple of hours, and the plants are looking ok..

Do you think theres any chance of saving nutrient burned plants?

Cheers for the help
Riz
 

Elephant Man

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the_riz said:
Hey guys,

I was wondering if someone could help out with a minor/major (hopefully minor lol) problem..

Ive recently purchaced a full indoor hydroponics system,
everything has looked fine up until now, they were a nice healthy 2 inches with first leaves and signs of secondary's..
Seedlings or clones? Full strength nutes IMO is too strong for either at 2".

the_riz said:
problem came when the water was changed for the first time, the plants drooped from the stalk unexpectedly pretty much 90 degrees down. This was corrected with carefully placed coctail sticks holding up the drooping babys, ph was fine, only difference is full strength nutreant solution was used as aposed to half strength as roots were visable in the matting.

They started to gain strength and all of a sudden a few of the leaves browned and crisped up suddenly in the space of about 4 hours.. Using an HPS light, running 6 inches above the tops, my first inclination was heat stress, so the light was moved up higher although not much improovement was noticed at first...

However the fact that full strength nutrient has been used, 'nutrient burn' appears to fit the scene as they worsen closer to where the pump introduces water to the system..

Should the pump be on 24/7? or should it be on a timed cycle of half an hour for every 3 hours?
What type of hydroponic system is it? Sounds like NFT...1 min on and 4 off...unless it is multi-tray.

the _riz said:
Ive been running the pump 24/7 on low until this problem occured, and i read up on overwatering / nutrient burn.. So over the last few days I have rigged the pump on a timer to water the plants matting tray for half an hour every 3 hours, this seems to have improved the 2 plants further away from the pump, however the 1 closest to still seems weak, yellow/browny, and short.

The other two seem to have made a 80% recovery, with minimal drooping and second, even third leaves/branches showing through.

Does this sound like nutrient burn or is there something more sinister at work?

Also how high should an HPS light be from vegetative plants, i know there more reccomended for flowering however budget played a major part in decision of equipment..

Since in the second 2 plants secondary leaves look strong and branches are starting to become visable and are looking healthy aside from a tiny bit of brown on the tips (which looks much better than before), is there any chance of salvaging these??

Thanks for reading, Ill appreciate any input as im pretty green to this hobby (no pun intended) lol

Cheers
Riz
How do the roots look? Are they white?
 

stein_free

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as for the lights anything from 6in close and 20 away should be fine . but like others it sounds like the nutrient is way too strong maybe a good flushing might clear it up but only time would tell on that
 

the_riz

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Not clones, seedlings. And yeah i thought full strength was too strong but my house mate insisted that as soon as you could see roots, to use full strength mix nutrients.... im gonna flush the thing out tomorow and use 1/2 strength, maybe 1/4...

Yes its an NFT system, what do you mean by 1 min on 4 mins off, as in a ratio of pump time? as in 1 hour on 4 hours off?

And yes, the roots are nice and white...

Can plants fully recover with unnafected yield from over nutrient related problems? 2 of them look fine...

Cheers for the help
Riz
 

Elephant Man

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the_riz said:
Not clones, seedlings. And yeah i thought full strength was too strong but my house mate insisted that as soon as you could see roots, to use full strength mix nutrients.... im gonna flush the thing out tomorow and use 1/2 strength, maybe 1/4...

Yes its an NFT system, what do you mean by 1 min on 4 mins off, as in a ratio of pump time? as in 1 hour on 4 hours off?

And yes, the roots are nice and white...

Can plants fully recover with unnafected yield from over nutrient related problems? 2 of them look fine...

Cheers for the help
Riz
Well, from what I understand...to optomize NFT you need a 1 minute on and 4 min off pump cycle. CAP makes a nonadjustable timer just for NFT systems. Granted, this timer is expensive...and not many alternatives are easily found. I believe there is an adjustable intermatic that can do this cycle...but don't think you will find it at Home depot, maybe their website. Surely 24/7 will probably work too...maybe even better when they are young, but from what I have read, 1 min on / 4 min off is what is optimal.

Sure...if there is no root damage they can recover...the only potential thing I see you could worry about is at such a young age seedling sex is not yet determined...and stress can lead to higher ratios of males to fems.

Might want to post any more questions in the hydro forum though...might get Kade or Stoney's attention...or I can move it there for you.

Oh yeah, might as well say it cause someone will...post pics if you can.
 

the_riz

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Cool yeah, theyve just started there night cycle so ill take some pics tomorow when i change the water.. cheers for all your help

riz
 

the_riz

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^ Healthy looking plant furthest away from pump..



^ Healthy-ish looking plant 2nd to the pump



^ Getting better, the plant closest the pump..
 
D

DLtoker

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Oh yeah 100%. I did that to my plants and I'm in the middle of my first grow right now. It took some time for them to regain full speed growth, but since you caught it early enough you won't have a problem at all. If you check my thread called 2 weeks flower you can see that it is not a huge deal...except I still over fert them sometimes...
 

the_riz

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Sweet, Thanks for the help DLtoker, cant wait for harvest :D
 
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with the leaves on the last plant..

Do you think the browned leaves shud be trimmed or wait it out?
 
D

DLtoker

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I bet if you touched the tips of those leaves, they would crumble and fall right off... If they don't do that, just leave them on for now. They aren't getting in the way of anything.
 

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