Phenos? Huh? What?

[BBFan]

I'm not a breeder. If I'm making seeds, I look at the best female I got and apply some pollen- don't usually have too much choice with the males, luckily I don't get too many!

So here's the last of my current grow- most of it has already been harvested. These were the last of some seeds from an outdoor grow in 2007- seeds from the same plant- both with the same poppa. Mom was a blueberry and dad was a southern lights.

Previous grows from this same batch have yielded excellent results- used some from an indoor grow to make a new batch of seeds last year- more heavily indica dominant.

So talk about different phenos! I don't know if you can see from the pics, but the first pic is heavy with trichs- it's really gooey. The 2nd pic is from another plant- hardly any trichs at all!

I mean, I'm thinking I should just throw this one away, not even bother drying and curing her.

Anyone have any similar experiences? More bud sites- yeah. Fatter leaves- yup. Earlier maturing- that too. But no real trich development- never.

By the way- these are heavy amber- way longer than I usually let them go- so it's not an age thing- they both germed back in August..

 

[erkelsgoo420]

Its typical being a first cross with likely unstable genetics to start with. If u want good results u need to spen as much time as possible watching, taking notes. U want to look for traits u like. I'd recommend getting some books and reading up on it. There's a lot of variables to look for
Get a good solid strain to start with such as nl5 and find something else u love and go to town

 

[umbra]

Not sure if it still in print, but...Marijuana Botany is an excellent source.

 

[4u2sm0ke]

:yeahthat:
can be found on ebay:aok:

and Cannabis breaders bible..

 

[legalize_freedom]

I have both of these books and they are both a wealth of knowledge, although they do sometimes go over my head.

I to have found huge differences in pheno's if you still have some of that pollen you can breed your favorite pheno back to the same pollen and keep doing this to help try to tighten up the genetics you are looking for, continually breed daughters, grand daughters, great, great great, (the best of) back to this original male pollen. it will keep the same genetics but continually improve because each time you are keeping the genetic traits you like.

 

[IRISH]

exact same nutes BB?

 

[Droopy Dog]

Not sure if it still in print, but...Marijuana Botany is an excellent source.

:yeahthat:

It is also in the 'Resources' section here under Plant Breeding.

My most important book.

DD

 

[nouvellechef]

Interesting. I wasn't going to bring it up in a post, but outta 5 AK47 fem seeds, I took the healthiest and cloned away. The other 4, which just finished a few weeks ago, were saturated in trichs. I mean sugary. Here I am week 7 with all the clones(per below) and they sugary, but absolutely nothing like the other 4. Mental note: take clones from each one.

 

[2Dog]

yeah that second looks rough...amazing the difference..is it really good smoke it doesnt look super impressive...a good yield?

 

[legalize_freedom]

You didn't say it was AK! My best friend (he's passed) was on a mission to find a cherry pheno AK 47, he bought several differnt packs trying to get one that smelled and tasted like cherries, he had read about it somewhere, and wanted it. He di end up getting one after several packs...and died around a yr later. I can't remember how many different pheno's he kept around along his journey, I think 7.

His wife got paranoid the night he was killed, and destroyed all of his plants, worried about investigations, she did the right thing, but I would give my left leg to have copies of his work!

dry it and try it at least, it should be good, I don't ever remember Dave coplaining about getting a pheno that didn't do it's job...and believe me he would have complained! The hard work is done now...hell smoke it man!


[edit] Sorry about this post when I read novelle chefs post about the AK, I thought he originally started this thread, after re-reading I realize the 2 buds were not novellechefs, or AK47...lol smoke it anyway BB the hard part is over.

 

[dirtyolsouth]

Mental note: take clones from each one.

This is SO important. Most of us have had the ONE that got away and it's such a drag...:cry: If you always take a clone from your plants as you put them into flowering you'll thank yourself over and over again... You just never know WHICH one is going to be THE one...

Peace!

 

[legalize_freedom]

I took 4 from each one from this grow....incase of accidents, and whatever I don't decide to keep as a mother will be flowered out. The only problem with this is that my veg space is not that big, and the donors will veg for another 2 weeks, and will take 9+ weeks to flower, I'm looking at these clones being in veg for 3 months...probably have to do alot of lst, and pruning. I'm sure from whatever survives the cloning, I will put some in flower earlier and just keep one from each that are the healthiest.

 

[BBFan]

exact same nutes BB?

Hey Irish-

Yeah- everything exactly the same. Even rotated during growth for adequate lighting.

These were the last 2- I was letting the one get really amber for some sleepy time smoke. The other one I haven't done anything with because of the lack of trichs. They're definitely at the end of their life and are coming down today.

Not sure if it still in print, but...Marijuana Botany is an excellent source.

Hey Umbra- I'm a big fan of Clarke and have read the book cover to cover- though I think there's some newer research out there that clears up some of the ambiguities in his research- in a lot of his writings he's not definitive. Still my goto source when I have a question.

I have no interest in breeding really- like I said, when I make seeds I usually just pick the best female and pollinate her. I'm also a periodic grower, not a perpetual one- so I don't keep mom's and clones, just seeds.

I've got a few buds from this grow already curing (like the one I threw in for BPOTM)- and the smoke is killer on the tastes I've taken.

I've been growing this strain for years now and I've seen different phenotypes express themselves through different grows- but it's always been a good, tasty, trich laden producer. I just never saw such a radically deviant expression- I doubt there's enough trichs to even make it worth sending through the bags.

Just thought I'd throw these up to show how different plants from the same strain, the same parentage- can have such radically different results under the exact same conditions. If I had not already grown seeds from this batch before and this was the only one I grew with these results- I probably would have thrown the rest of the seeds out. And missed out on a whole lot of this......
Thanks for all the replies folks!

 

[legalize_freedom]

Thank you for posting it! It still amazes me how every plant is different...although it shouldn't that is just nature, the same as me and my siblings are all different, and a litter of puppies are all different...Thanks for sharing it with us BB!

 

[IRISH]

just catching up after the weekend. what did you do with her BB? i have a suggestion. ...

keep her put back for some possible future credit, say, a bud doing a tune-up on your ride? , balancing some tires, hooking an amp up , that kinda trade, you know?...hey, if shes any good at all, you should try to recoup something...and , if that ain't your bag, just pass it off to a brother down on his luck. that'll surely give a bit of satisfaction...and if all else fails BB, well, you know, just send her on over to 'ol Irish...i'll give her an interview... ...

 

[leafminer]

Yes that's quite typical, what happened. Same with me recently; out of five F2's I grew, one was killer smoke, one was not bad, and three were pretty useless. I prefer to buy quality genetics these days, though I still do a little experimenting on the side.

 

[Mutt]

True breeding strains will keep close a couple gens down the line. Its when you outcross em like you did weird things will happen. But outcrossing IMO is how you find those amazing phenos. You take those phenos that are a keeper and work em to lock em in. several males of the same line pollenating a female will provide more pheno variations as well.
Its not a bad thing...its how ya work the weed some are winners some are not
Good genetic lineage is key, but just becuase some dude made a bunch of seeds and sells em at 50 bucks a pop don't make em true breeding

 

[legalize_freedom]

You take those phenos that are a keeper and work em to lock em in. several males of the same line pollenating a female will provide more pheno variations as well.
Its not a bad thing...its how ya work the weed some are winners some are not

Is this why I read that people take pollen from ALL the males of a certain set, to breed to a sister or daughter etc? when cubing they do this I think I have read.??

 

[BBFan]

True breeding strains will keep close a couple gens down the line. Its when you outcross em like you did weird things will happen. But outcrossing IMO is how you find those amazing phenos. You take those phenos that are a keeper and work em to lock em in. several males of the same line pollenating a female will provide more pheno variations as well.
Its not a bad thing...its how ya work the weed some are winners some are not
Good genetic lineage is key, but just becuase some dude made a bunch of seeds and sells em at 50 bucks a pop don't make em true breeding

Hey there Mutt!

Thanks man- that was a great answer! Like I said earlier- I'm not a breeder, but I sure wish I had produced some seeds from this batch- the heavy trich plant is killer smoke and real tasty too.

Again- thanks for the great reply!

-BBFan

 

[Mutt]

Is this why I read that people take pollen from ALL the males of a certain set, to breed to a sister or daughter etc? when cubing they do this I think I have read.??

Check out Soma's stuff and several med breeders. multiple males I think helps ensure full genotype and pheno type expression....please don't quote me on this I will have to read up and see whats what. This veers away from "breeding concepts" and gets into "breeding strategies" Male selection has always been my shortfall.