Regarding LED quality

[Pete]

So I'm back to plead for more knowledge, this time it's the lights.

I keep reading that cheap LED's tend to produce small buds. So I'm confused about the nature of a cheap LED. I have one that looks like most of the others, round corner rectangle with fans and 60/10 watt bulbs. I bought it through Walmart for 55 bucks. It has a 3 year warranty. So my question is... is that considered a "cheap" LED, as in maybe poor quality lights or could they mean this applies to idiots who take 20 LED pantry lights and try to grow with them?

And while we're talking about it... how many plants do you recommend for each light as I know I'll need more for the extra plants?

BTW... my current plant I started out like 2o inches below it, but it's now only about 10 inches below the light and shows no signs of distress at all... so that makes me wonder if it's an issue too.

And ... what makes a healthy leave cup in rows between the veins. I have ONE leaf doing that.

Thanks.

 

[No Clue]

Sounds like you have a lot more research to do! I grow with LED because I have no venting for hot lights (I grow in homemade tents) and I can’t afford the electric bills! There is tons of info online. What you will find is that the LED lights do not penetrate the canopy as well as the other lights so you will do better with SCROG. I have several lights each supposedly giving me 600 watts worth of light. I use one per plant when I do not SCROG. (My setup is very small—can only flower 3 at a time) . The other nice thing about LEDs is that you can put your lights very close to the girls. Mine stay about 6 or 8 inches from them and they love it. Maybe my buds are smaller than they would be but for my situation LEDs are the only way I can grow and my children (32 and 34 y.o.) are VERY happy with my grows so it must work o.k.!! (They are both medicinal users—I do not use it myself as I am a nurse). I hope that helps a little!

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

Be sure and read the info for the lights you use. My LEDs need to be about 2' from the canopy to get the best performance.

If you want to put your lights right up next to your plants, I would suggest using T5s.

Also, ventilation is for more than cooling lights. For proper photosynthesis, your plants need a continual supply of fresh air (CO2).

I would say that anything under about $400-500 is considered a cheap LED. The good ones are $1000 or more.

 

[Pete]

Well OK, lots to consider then. I'll probably not grow more than a half dozen at a time. The smells aren't an issue because it's legal here now but I don't want to advertise either. Thank you for the detailed input!

 

[Locked]

So I'm back to plead for more knowledge, this time it's the lights.

I keep reading that cheap LED's tend to produce small buds. So I'm confused about the nature of a cheap LED. I have one that looks like most of the others, round corner rectangle with fans and 60/10 watt bulbs. I bought it through Walmart for 55 bucks. It has a 3 year warranty. So my question is... is that considered a "cheap" LED, as in maybe poor quality lights or could they mean this applies to idiots who take 20 LED pantry lights and try to grow with them?

And while we're talking about it... how many plants do you recommend for each light as I know I'll need more for the extra plants?

BTW... my current plant I started out like 2o inches below it, but it's now only about 10 inches below the light and shows no signs of distress at all... so that makes me wonder if it's an issue too.

And ... what makes a healthy leave cup in rows between the veins. I have ONE leaf doing that.

Thanks.

I use King LED's. one 1200 (135 US Dollars) and one 1500 (150 US Dollars) in a 4x4x6.5 Flowering Tent. This was my last harvest. No small buds.

 

[Locked]

I run 4 to 6 plants in my 4x4x6.5 Flowering tent. Strain an phenotype has a lot to do with yield. The strongest smoke I have ever had was called Hippy Slayer. It would only produce 2 ounces dry in the same tent where a strain called Boysenberry would put out 3 to 4 ounces dry per plant.

 

[St_Nick]

Based on your description of your light, I'd guess you are square in the ""cheap" spectrum of the Led band of light. Name brands these days from the Chinese market are considered "by me" to be mid-range and offer a good value for money spent. Top tier lights are really more designed for pros and serious hobbyist who get a boner over having the best of everything. The truth is a given area of space whether 3x3 or 4x4 or whatever will produce a given amount of weed assuming you provide the correct amount of light. You can choose from any number of different types of lights these days and do very well. Do some research and find a good one in your price range. I do suggest staying with previously discovered and well reviewed lights though. There are a ton of overhyped lights out there.

 

[Pete]

I run 4 to 6 plants in my 4x4x6.5 Flowering tent. Strain an phenotype has a lot to do with yield. The strongest smoke I have ever had was called Hippy Slayer. It would only produce 2 ounces dry in the same tent where a strain called Boysenberry would put out 3 to 4 ounces dry per plant.

I am pretty sure I've never seen a bud the size of a pop can. Those are beautiful. Is it Indica?

 

[Locked]

I am pretty sure I've never seen a bud the size of a pop can. Those are beautiful. Is it Indica?

No it is a hybrid that leans more towards Sativa. Head high with a great buzz and energy. I have been running her for a couple years now. I lost all my clones but luckily got about 50-60 seeds off a couple plants that selfed themselves. So all those beans are fem beans.

 

[St_Nick]

I don't remember where I heard this but in my experience it rings pretty well true. "for maximum yield you need 66 watts per square foot of light" Now that is a rule I tried to adhere to in my HPS days but it is pretty well true of leds as well. We're talking wall watts here with one gram per watt considered to be a well established grow. The advantage of led is the lower cost involved in reaching that number.

 

[Pete]

Based on your description of your light, I'd guess you are square in the ""cheap" spectrum of the Led band of light. Name brands these days from the Chinese market are considered "by me" to be mid-range and offer a good value for money spent. Top tier lights are really more designed for pros and serious hobbyist who get a boner over having the best of everything. The truth is a given area of space whether 3x3 or 4x4 or whatever will produce a given amount of weed assuming you provide the correct amount of light. You can choose from any number of different types of lights these days and do very well. Do some research and find a good one in your price range. I do suggest staying with previously discovered and well reviewed lights though. There are a ton of overhyped lights out there.

That's a great breakdown. And I will look into it more for sure. My grow needs won't likely exceed a half dozen plants and the one I've learned on is doing great so I may try a couple more of the same lights then next year maybe shell out for something more serious.

 

[Pete]

No it is a hybrid that leans more towards Sativa. Head high with a great buzz and energy. I have been running her for a couple years now. I lost all my clones but luckily got about 50-60 seeds off a couple plants that selfed themselves. So all those beans are fem beans.

I aspire to make my small garden as potent as I can. I'm more of a Kush guy so I'm waiting on some OG seeds supposed to be here any day now. I'm going to try cloning soon, but I want to be really prepared. I'm one of those people who can make one little mistake into a Bikini atoll. So I am curious how you lost your clones. Do they reach a point where they just aren't viable anymore or did you have a disaster? Nice collection of beans ya got there too... the girls didn't abandon you entirely.

 

[Locked]

I aspire to make my small garden as potent as I can. I'm more of a Kush guy so I'm waiting on some OG seeds supposed to be here any day now. I'm going to try cloning soon, but I want to be really prepared. I'm one of those people who can make one little mistake into a Bikini atoll. So I am curious how you lost your clones. Do they reach a point where they just aren't viable anymore or did you have a disaster? Nice collection of beans ya got there too... the girls didn't abandon you entirely.

Getting cloning down is a fundamental to having a perpetual grow. When I pop beans I always clone any females I get and then once I see a great pheno I drop all other clones and clone that pheno aggressively so that I can run her as many times as possible before I shut down in early Summer. I try to get at least a pound dry to put away for the months between my next grow. I lost my clones because keeping them alive and healthy for months at a time while not flowering is tough. I shut down for about 4 months and keeping mother plants alive and happy in the summer here in NJ is tough. Too much heat. I have in the past put my cuts in the fridge for up to a month before rooting them and it worked but it is still hit and miss. Most people avoid selfed beans like the plague but I have come to love them. It lets me keep a copy of that great smoke in bean form for later use.

 

[Pete]

I don't remember where I heard this but in my experience it rings pretty well true. "for maximum yield you need 66 watts per square foot of light" Now that is a rule I tried to adhere to in my HPS days but it is pretty well true of leds as well. We're talking wall watts here with one gram per watt considered to be a well established grow. The advantage of led is the lower cost involved in reaching that number.

My grow room at the moment is a shower stall I'll be tearing out during some remodeling this year and is about 10 square feet. But having said that, it doesn't seem like the one light would be enough. And I will have a minimum of 4 to 6 plants so in that regard it seems that at least two 600w LED's will be necessary. Not to mention you can only fit one under a light anyway. So does any of that thread into what you think?

 

[Pete]

Lewis... you keep clones refrigerated? Is that the usual method? I always wonder how you manage the lighting when you keep cuts relatively dormant. Also, what is your preferred dip for rooting?

 

[Pete]

I'm really not too lazy to spend hours on the web understanding the processes. I am one of those people who cannot make sense of the vastness of information so the possibility of avoiding sketchy information in a forum like this is nearly 100%. I can stay focused on smaller blocks of information. My cognitive skills are like waves... some days it works, most days no. So I'm very grateful for everyone's attention and interest. Great place.

 

[Locked]

I have to say I would not breed with them. Just use them for personal use.

Lewis... you keep clones refrigerated? Is that the usual method? I always wonder how you manage the lighting when you keep cuts relatively dormant. Also, what is your preferred dip for rooting?

A couple of years ago I did an experiment to see how long I could keep clones refrigerated and still keep them viable. 1 month was the limit for me. At 5 weeks they did not root. It is not the usual method. Most times you take your cut, prep it, dip it, and root it. I use Clonex rooting gel. https://www.epicgardening.com/best-rooting-hormones/

If you are going to try and keep a clone alive for an extended period of time and conditions don't allow for a mother plant then I find cloning the clone as a good method. Basically you root a clone, wait for it to get just big enough to take one or 2 cuts off of it and then root those clones. Once the roots take you kill the mother plant and repeat the process for as long as you need to. Clones need very little light compared to a mother plant. I usually use a single small CFL bulb.

 

[Pete]

I hope you got Bud of the Month for that monster.

 

[umbra]

I use dip n gro. When looking at the output of leds, the 66 watt number Nick gave means nothing. Leds are measured in PAR ( photosynthethically active radiation) not watts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthetically_active_radiation
If you are too lazy to look stuff up, maybe you should just buy weed. Growing isn't for everybody and it is work to get good at it.

 

[St_Nick]

When looking at the output of leds, the 66 watt number Nick gave means nothing. Leds are measured in PAR ( photosynthethically active radiation) not watts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthetically_active_radiation

You are absolutely correct. However, way back in the day, a person would say a requirement for maximum production in a 4x6 tent would start with a 1000 watt gavida. That light is by anyones standards a top of the line fixture and still used in a lot of gardens. It generates a true and realistic 750 par using 66 watts of power/per square foot from the wall. My Leds use 248 watts at the wall to generate 480 par under the light. But out at the borders of the area the par dropoff is terrible. That's why the low power high wattage lights like the spyder are so effective.
they don't have blaster high par numbers but their design allows even coverage over a measured area. High power low wattage lights like mine will penetrate more like a hps but the coverage falls off rapidly as you approach the boundaries. In the end though, the rule still holds true. It takes roughly 66 watts of consumed power per square ft. to maximize efficiency of a grow area, no matter the . The reason I use this reference is because Pete said he is after knowledge, the implication I took was he probably understood watts, might not understand micromoles, par and the calculatin necessary to figger it all out. If you buy a King 1500 or a Mars whatever or a viparspectra what you will find is with these middle of the road leds, 10sq ft area needs about 600 true watts of led power.​