sick satori

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Hi MP,

IS this under fed, and having cal/mag issues? Looks like phosphorus cal/mag to me. Gave her plain r/o water with a little cal/mag, next watering was

.7ml / L cal/mag = 1/2 dose Satori 04/25 start of week 7
1ml/L molasses
1ml/L grow = 1/4 veg dose
.7ml/L pure blend tea
.7m/L EWC

I have left out microblast nutes, and supplemented with azomite.

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[The Hemp Goddess]

I think they are deficient in more than one thing, literally starving to death--.7 ml per liter is almost no food at all. There are 5 ml in a teaspoon, so you are talking like 1/7th of a teaspoon. You must have to use a dropper to measure? I would certainly be feeding at least close to full strength nutes for vegging plants this size. Satori is a light feeder, so maybe not full strength, but at least close to it. What kind of grow nutrients are you feeding them? How often do you feed?

 

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Hey THG,

Grow nutes are Earth juice grow npk - 2-1-1, directions say 2ml/L for flowering, 4m/L for veg. They only get watered once every 5-6 days. Last week I did a plain r/o water with 1/4 dose cal/mag, before that I added some nutes every watering. Either bio-root, or EJ.

I will double up on the nutes next watering, unless she shows a major turn around in a few days. A normal dose from word of mouth is 1tbl spoon per gallon.
1
What I did THG, was add a tablespoon into 14liters of solution.. just so happens that it worked out to .7ml roughly. No eye dropper

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

Yes, get those nutes up. Do you have any kind of meter to measure ppms?

 

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Yes I do.. but I don't think it reads 100% with the organic nutes.

With roughly a 1/4 dose of calmag it shows 100ppm, thats at .5ml/L.

With the EJ Grow at 1ml/L which is again 1/4 dose, it reads only 30ppm.

It appears to give consistent readings, just that they seem quite low with the organic ferts. Do you have a recommendation for how many ppm's of cal/mag I should add? Do you think I should do like a 3/4 feed on her?

 

[Droopy Dog]

You can easily double EJ reccs with no problem.:stoned:

Forget the PPM meter, it's useless with organics.

If you are only watering every 5+ days, do AT LEAST the recc dose if not a bit more, like 5ml/liter.

What you are doing is like putting someone on a 500 calorie/day diet and wondering why they look sickly. :hitchair:

Light feeders or no, you are starving them!

DD

 

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Thank Droopy,

In my defense, this plant was all green and happy a week ago. I will try out a full dose, will start brewing it tonight.

Last grow I had to take it easy, I had added some herb & veggie mix that must of had alot of food in it, and looks like it has made me over cautious this round.

 

[Rosebud]

Just stopped in to say good luck. I have never seen that in my satoris. They usually yellow at the end is all. She is a good plant, i bet you can pull her out of this..

 

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I think considering I gave her a 1/4 dose on the 25th she should be getting better instead of worse.. It happened so fast.. I seen slight yellowing like a cal/mag def, so I foliar sprayed her and the white widow with 1tsp epsom salt / liter of r/o water, as well as the 1/4 dose of EJ on the 25th. But things still heading south.

Thanks Rose, i'm sure she will survive.. and perhaps even thrive with the help and support of MP and some good ol time n sunshine oh and more nutes! :hitchair:

I admit I dropped the ball on this one..

 

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I am worried about the lack of sulfur in the nutes, do you see any sulfur def? - hmm looks like the molasses should be covering zinc and sulfur

Mixing up nute batch now.. cal-n-mag recommends 2.3ml/L for veg. I used 1ml/L and it has a ppm of 200. If I used a full dose it would have like 500ppm, seems too much to me.. am I wrong? How much cal-n-mag should I be using? If you let me know in the next 24hrs I can add more. I believe I read that the earth juice grow is 2-3% calcium

r/o water 15
cal-n-mag 1ml/L +200ppm = 215
molasses 1ml/L +85ppm = 285
grow 5ml/L +205ppm = 490
catalyst 1.25ml/L +40ppm = 530
pure blend tea .83ml/L +45ppm = 575

will bubble this for 24hrs or so untill the ph comes up to the 6's, when I mix it all up it has a ph of around 3.7.

 

[Droopy Dog]

The problem as I see it, is, you're trying to do organics with a chem/hydro mindset. The listing of the various PPM's shows that. PPM's are at best irrelevant in any organics.

Looking for changes/improvements days after applying something or feeding is another. A wweek, perhaps, if not longer. But the only things that happen fast in organics is usually really bad.

Quit looking for deficiencys where there aren't any, or worse, imagining them. "Fixing" problems that aren't really there just create more problems.

Did you add lime to the mix as advised? If so, there is no need for cal/mag. IIRC you had or added Azomite to the mix? If so, you are covered on trace and minerals.

For right now, just feed it a decent amount and give it some time to respond to the feeding.

DD

 

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Yo Droopy,

I thought THG was interested in the ppm reading is why I supplied them. Sometimes I check the ppm out of curiosity, usually run-off ppm is what I check.

Was worried about the lack of sulfur because the azomite contains just a tiny amount. Yes added the azomite, as well as the dolomite lime.

I have another white widow that is showing cal/mag deficiencies, is why I was curious if this one was too..... When I run multiple strains I always end up with a mixxed pot. I have 3 happy plants, 3 not so happy plants.. krazie MJ plants

 

[Kraven]

I have to agree, I think your over thinking a feeding issue. Up your nute strength, feed, wait a week and see if she starts to green back up. Watch the tips for discoloration, that's how you know you're at the sweet spot.

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

Yes, I was and am. I still measure ppms with organic nutes. If you are using a super soil or something like that, it is impossible to try and figure out. But with added nutes (whether they are synthenic or organic), I do believe that the ppms matter.

 

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I have to agree, I think your over thinking a feeding issue. Up your nute strength, feed, wait a week and see if she starts to green back up. Watch the tips for discoloration, that's how you know you're at the sweet spot.

Hey Kraven, I agree 100%. I figured it was lack of nutes, but also thought there may have been a cal/mag / micro deficiency due to my other white widow showing symptoms.

She was doing great with mild nutes every feed. Its when I skipped a feed and used plain water that she started heading south.

Thanks everyone, I will update in a week or so with a pic. Still kinda torn on the cal/mag and whether or not I need to use it. Half the people say the dolomite lime has it covered, the other half uses cal/mag with every watering.

From what I have read it is hard to over use the cal/mag, seems most people use it at full strength, then back off until they see problems, raise it a lil and keep it there.

 

[Hushpuppy]

If you are growing in organic medium/soil with all organic additives and organic liquid nutes, you don't need to use cal/mag additive. That is only for non-organic soils. In fact, using the calmag additive along with the dolomite and other organic materials can cause you to have too much of both calcium and magnesium. I wouldn't use another drop of the calmag additive unless you had a real significant need for it in the future, or with a synthetic nutrient grow.

You can use a TDS pen to read organic ppms but its a totally different animal from synthetic ppm numbers. You basically have to relearn how to measure the nutrient levels when reading ppm of organics, and even then its more of a round number than a precise measure.

 

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If you are growing in organic medium/soil with all organic additives and organic liquid nutes, you don't need to use cal/mag additive. That is only for non-organic soils. In fact, using the calmag additive along with the dolomite and other organic materials can cause you to have too much of both calcium and magnesium. I wouldn't use another drop of the calmag additive unless you had a real significant need for it in the future, or with a synthetic nutrient grow.

You can use a TDS pen to read organic ppms but its a totally different animal from synthetic ppm numbers. You basically have to relearn how to measure the nutrient levels when reading ppm of organics, and even then its more of a round number than a precise measure.

Hey Hush,

The soil is pro-mix HP, 13% EWC, 1cup/ft3 of azomite, and 1 Tbs / gallon of soil. Nutes are all liquid organic.

 

[Hushpuppy]

That is a combination of organics and soilless medium. That does make things more tricky but if you have been giving dolomite lime then you shouldn't need the calmag. One thing that may be an issue here is once you set up your medium and begin feeding with organic nutrients, you also need to be adding some extra microbe additives and some smaller amounts of molasses to feed the microbes to get them going. If the microbe herd isn't in good health and/or the numbers of them isn't there, then the whole organic function isn't going to work well enough to properly feed the plants.

 

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Thanks again.

I have been adding molasses at about a teaspoon per gallon every watering. I used myco-madness when they were only a week or two old to help out the micro herd.

What would you suggest to help add microbes? I currently have Humbodt Myco-madness, and Plant Success Premium Mycorrhizal Innoculant.

I seem to be at about a 50'50 success rate when they go from veg to flower, they either thrive, or show problems.. For example, I have 2 white widow auto's growing, one is happy as can be, the other is showing major problems.. Maybe for what ever reason the micro herd is happy with one plant, but not the other, even tho they have had the same nutes / molasses / myco's

 

[Droopy Dog]

A few quickies.

First off, mycos are a fungi that grow on plant roots. They are NOT the same as soil microbes by any stretch. Both are essential, but 2 different animals. Once applied to the roots, more mycos are just wasted money.

Dolomite is 20-35% Mg, so a Mg def using dolomite is a bit far fetched.

EJ Catalyst is pretty much just fancy molasses.

ProMix is soilless (no dirt), but is also organic. Peat moss is both organic and a humus source.

If in doubt, a little research will confirm all this, even if I was a bit brief.

DD