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what's the down side

orangesunshine

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to flowering before seeing alternating nodes---plant is close to reaching 1/2 its allotted size for harvest---indica dominant hybrid---32 days old---i am thinking it won't flower till it's ready even if it is on a 12/12 regime---
 

Chewbongo

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not that im the go to guy and i know THG will chime in here and prove me wrong, lol but until recently i always flowered before alternating nodes, and to be honest the flowered just as soon after the flip as what they do now when i wait to see alternating nodes. so i really see no problems with it
 

Rosebud

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I don't think there is a down side.I have just learned here recently that some never do alternating nodes. So if your worried about height it should be ok. 12/12 should make it flower...keep us posted I wanna know.
 

orangesunshine

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:ciao: rosebud, chewbaca---some say flipping before sexually mature with alternating nodes is not good and i am curious to know why---can't find anything scientific on it just a bunch of opinions---and you all know what they're like---lol---(not to discourage anyone from replying to this thread) everybodys got one---height was never an issue until now---so---another couple inches---alternating nodes or not---the power bill is cut in half---:D


p.s.---is it a fact that a pot plant is not sexually mature until it has alternating nodes
 

SunWolf

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I myself have no personal experience built up to answer definitively, but I recall someone, somewhere saying that putting it to flower early Edit: meaning swapping to 12/12 to force floweringcheats the plant of 1/2 it's growing potential during the last little bit of time it takes to mature and start to flower.

Something about...since it needs to be mature (show sex) before it can flower, going to 12-12 before showing sex robs the plant of 12 hours of growing time each day, so it will actually mature later than just waiting until it shows sex.

I wish I could remember which of the multitude of sites I peruse that I saw that thread, but alas, I have toked since my visit! :eek:

I am thinking of running a "side by side" pseudo-test with one of my pairs I have running now. I am getting so intrigued as to how this plant works, this is so much fun! :D

Green Mojo to all you wonderful folks here that are making this such an awesome learning experience!!
 

orangesunshine

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what up sunwolf---"flowering early" is the issue---plants are either in veg or flower---and totally manipulated by the grower---there are no tweens, teens, or sexual maturity time (alternating nodes)---still looking for some evidence or support that says it could be detrimental to the plant if flowering is induced "early"---i have heard of people going 12/12 with seedlings---but---have never heard of their outcome
 

SunWolf

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orangesunshine said:
what up sunwolf---"flowering early" is the issue---plants are either in veg or flower---and totally manipulated by the grower---there are no tweens, teens, or sexual maturity time (alternating nodes)---still looking for some evidence or support that says it could be detrimental to the plant if flowering is induced "early"---i have heard of people going 12/12 with seedlings---but---have never heard of their outcome
Hmmm, I went back and edited in that I was meaning swapping to 12/12 early, before showing sex, and thereby trying to force it into "flowering early".

It's one of those hard to explain the meaning in print kind of things and since I'm just remembering something someone else said, I'm gonna just go over in the corner and smoke a bit and be quiet! :bolt::bong2:
 

SunWolf

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:woohoo: You know what? I think I'm going to put one of my papaya babies that I just started straight into the flower cabinet and see how it compares to its sister. This topic has me so curious now, I'm gonna give it a shot. It'll be anecdotal evidence at best, but should make a great study!

I'll make a note in my grow journal to keep track of how it goes!

Woo Hoo!! I'm actually stoked to try this out! :woohoo:


Here, pull up a bucket and pass this!!

:48:
 

orangesunshine

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very cool---thanks for the chair---and---:48:---how tall and how old is the papaya baby---it is from seed right---obviously going to yield less, but comparing the quality of the smoke will be interesting---where do i pull up my chair to watch
 

SunWolf

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I put them to dirt on the 12th, they both popped up almost at the exact same time on the 16th, so they are 13 days above ground. I'll pop one into the flower cabinet at lights on tomorrow morning and we'll watch what happens.

This is so cool!! Pot nerd in the making here!! :rolleyes: :D
 

Rosebud

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Thanks Hick, I know a couple of my mandala girls didn't have alternating noded for ten weeks or so..i couldn't believe it and then I think it was 4U that said he had some that never did alternate.
 

orangesunshine

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:ciao:rosebud and hick---thanks for the input---still looking for something that will say sexual maturity can be induced by a 12/12 photoperiod
 

Hushpuppy

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After reading this thread I went back to one of my "bibles", this one is by Greg Green, called "The Cannabis Grow Bible". In the Flowering section He says, "An immature plant will not show sex because initial calyx development is not photoperiod-related."

He goes on to say,"Plants normally mature around the fourth week of vegetative growth because sex is not genetically determined until the third week of growth." He also says, "Early induced flowering isn't the same as forcing your plants to flower. If you force flower a strain before it has preflowered it will flower at roughly the same time as a plant from the same strain that has been flowered after calyx development has occured naturally. Force flowering simply acts by stressing the plant into a crisis condition."

I had a condition with my first run of Blueberry Punch where it didn't want to show its sex, even though it had started developing calyxes. Then we had an inadvertant light shutdown for about 26hrs. We got the lights back on and within 24hrs they were popping preflowers (both male and female) like crazy. I think the key was that we already had calyx development (even though the alternating nodes hadn't appeared yet. We immediately took clones and all of them started growing alternating nodes straight away. :)
 

bho_expertz

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Hot Topic this one.

I should say that after the 3rd/4th week of veg is allright to change to 12/12. The only problem is that they can take up to one week to show sex and if they already have internodes it is quite faster.

Don't forget that if height is issue they will possibly double in size with the strecht (?).
 

orangesunshine

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thanks hushpuppy---good stuff---i specially like the quote that "sex is not genetically determined until the 3rd week of growth" to support---growing conditions can influence a plants sex

does he say anything about the relationship between the age of a plant and its ability to produce cannabinoids
 

SunWolf

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orangesunshine said:
:ciao:rosebud and hick---thanks for the input---still looking for something that will say sexual maturity can be induced by a 12/12 photoperiod
I'm still leaning towards the thought that putting a plant to 12/12 before it's ready to show sex on its own will cause it to take even longer to actually mature and show sex, due to cheating it of 12 hours of growing time each day.

I'm putting my money where my mouth is, so to speak, and I put one of my 2 papaya babies directly under 12/12 lighting this morning, and will be comparing both to see which one matures sooner. I'll be journaling the experiment in my grow journal: http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57806

I know it will be anecdotal evidence at best, but it may be quite telling. I hope my luck holds out and they are both female, or the test will be moot. :rolleyes:

May need a bunch of this :bong: to keep up the:watchplant: but the experiment is in action as we speak.
 
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The problem I have found is stretch. During the dark period, they are going to stretch rather than grow (adding internodes). However, almost conversely, when I have gone 12/12 from seed, I have ended up with small plants that produced very little.
 

Hushpuppy

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I don't remember Greg Green saying anything about the relationship of the age of the plant and the level of cannabinoid production, but I also have Ed Rosenthal's book and he said that there is an optimum level of veg (I'm paraphrasing here) maturity at which the plant will, given all other variables are met, produce at its genetic preset maximum. I take that and what Greg Green's books to say is the same thing that THG said, that if the plant is grown outside of its "natural" parameters (not allowed to mature naturally) then yield will suffer proportionally to how far outside of the natural parameters the plant is grown :)
 

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