What's with seeds these days?

sopappy

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Anybody else getting crap seeds in Ontario? I've been at it for 5 years and doing okay until about a year ago when seeds from bank st, seeds from rideau street, and it now seems seeds from toronto all suck. They sprout and just stop growing... the walking dead.
I'm thinking that I'm the common denominator but cannot for the life of me figure out what the **** is going wrong and it's costing me a small fortune.
I germinate in cococoir/perlite 50/50, distilled water, Thrive (half dose), heat pad 21C regulated by STC-1000 (these things are gold), humidity at 60 and no dome. Barely half inch deep, and I spray instead of water so the seeds don't sink (Ever hear of that one? Lordy, I pamper these finicky bitches and still they give up)
I read somewhere (uh-oh) some fellow suggested that the scanners at airports were damaging them. Really? UNCLE !!! Is the seeds or is it me?
 
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I buy seeds out of Ontario all the time without problems (Hemp Depot), so the chances of it being an airport scan is slim, IMO. Where exactly did these seeds come from?

I, however, do not have good luck germing in coco, so I don't. I believe that my problems with coco is keeping it the right amount of wet. That could be your problem too. If growing in soil, I plant directly into the soil. If hydro, I use rapid rooters.

I also do not think that 21C is warm enough. Try to get it between about 72 and 75F.

I would quit the Thrive. If you are talking about Thrive Alive B1, I could find no where that it recommends using it on seedlings or as a soak. Where did you find this information? Is the perlite inert or are there nutes in it? someone here mentioned that they could only find perlite with added nutrients. I have never seen it, but it must be out there.

I do not spray, but I water carefully. After a seedling has broken soil, it is a bad practice to spray as this can encourage a condition called damping off that will kill the seedling. If your distilled water is in fact 4.5 pH like you mentioned in another thread, this could be a problem. That is quite acidic for anything, even acidic loving plants. While you do not generally need to pH water for seedlings, it cannot either be too acidic or too alkaline.

I(f they are sprouting, they have not been irradiated.
 

sopappy

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I buy seeds out of Ontario all the time without problems (Hemp Depot), so the chances of it being an airport scan is slim, IMO. Where exactly did these seeds come from?

>local Ottawa stores on Bank St was great until this started
>Rideau St Crop King same thing
>mail order, IronSeeds, these certainly look healthier but slooooooow

I, however, do not have good luck germing in coco, so I don't. I believe that my problems with coco is keeping it the right amount of wet. That could be your problem too. If growing in soil, I plant directly into the soil. If hydro, I use rapid rooters.

>yup, darnit, I used this one http://tinyurl.com/lvrrlnw
>with 50/50 perlite.... I am unsure of the perlite, big bag, Ritchie Feed and >Seed, no label.
>I was doing just fine with Miracle Grow potting soil but grew weary of >trying to get rid of the soil all the time and I'm told I can re-use this >mixture.


I also do not think that 21C is warm enough. Try to get it between about 72 and 75F.

> Friggin cold here, I can't afford much more than a 19C house :), the >mats seem to be trying to heat the room. A probe in the medium only >gets that high, I'm not regulating it.

I would quit the Thrive. If you are talking about Thrive Alive B1, I could find no where that it recommends using it on seedlings or as a soak. Where did you find this information?

>I tried to find a spec sheet but this is all I could find:

POWER THRIVE 0.5-2-1 1L / 1 QT Power Thrive is a carefully formulated blend of vitamins and natural plant hormones derived from kelp. Use it during all phases of plant development. It helps plants survive during stressful periods of growth, especially when starting seeds, transplanting or taking cuttings.

>on the back label it actually says: seed soak / germination 4ml / L
>but I hear you, I do have 5 planted 3 days now, distilled water only >(water warmed to 21C (and not by adding hot water, I sit on the mat)



Is the perlite inert or are there nutes in it? someone here mentioned that they could only find perlite with added nutrients. I have never seen it, but it must be out there.

>uh-oh, I saw nothing on the label, in fact, there was no label, a huge bag >from a garden centre, I'll go back and check the labels on the smaller >bags (darn details)

I do not spray, but I water carefully. After a seedling has broken soil, it is a bad practice to spray as this can encourage a condition called damping off that will kill the seedling.

>I only spray the medium so the seed doesn't sink (hahaha,yes, silly, I >know) but once they are up, they're spoon fed.

If your distilled water is in fact 4.5 pH like you mentioned in another thread, this could be a problem. That is quite acidic for anything, even acidic loving plants. While you do not generally need to pH water for seedlings, it cannot either be too acidic or too alkaline.

>I did see 4.5 on my metre but I may have forgotten to rinse the probe. I >just got one. I tried again today and a more reasonable 6-7

If they are sprouting, they have not been irradiated.

>I plant in batches of 5 or 10... half a dozen starts now and consistent... >up and freeze, the walking dead, they don't fall over, they don't wilt, they >look like **** but will stand there and mock me FOR WEEKS if I let them. >I'm looking at little 10 dollar bills laughing at me.

>I think you're right about both. If it's not the THRIVE, I'm going back to >soil. I kinda miss it to be honest.
>I was doing fine, just lousy yields and dirt was a pain to unload every few >months. I learn EVERYTHING the hard way, sigh.

thank you for that!
 
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You can warm up a small space with just a few CFLs if the space is small. You do not have to keep the entire house that warm, just the seedlings.

If the seeds are actually sprouting, it is not the fault of the seed. Something else is going on...medium, temps, bad soil, moisture levels...something like that.

Yield are directly tied to your lighting and you are really underlit, but that is a discussion for when the plants get a bit larger. Put them in a small space that you can keep warmer. There is nothing wrong with using hot water to get your water to the temp you want. Make sure not to let the stem get wet as this can cause damping off.

I really like Hemp Depot. You might check them out. I have never heard of those other places.
 

sopappy

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You can warm up a small space with just a few CFLs if the space is small. You do not have to keep the entire house that warm, just the seedlings.

If the seeds are actually sprouting, it is not the fault of the seed. Something else is going on...medium, temps, bad soil, moisture levels...something like that.

>> You'd think so but if they need nothing but water until the cotythings yellow because I'm told the seed initially sustains itself then I'd think it possible they could do the zombie thing before the nutes came along.

I'm a technician, troubleshooting all my life but not with growing living things, I find it almost impossible to get past STEP 1: Determine the problem.

But I think, after harassing you folks all day Saturday, I am getting closer.

The 5 walking dead are still as they were weeks ago and UGLY as sin but I'm maintaining the same regimen (water, thrive) with them as the 15 that followed from a different source. They are all under the LED (12") and a nice green but they seem puny. Two started to stretch this morning so I moved them to an inch under the T5 tube with the 5 planted 4 days ago without THRIVE, only distilled water. 3 are up today. I'm hoping this answers the THRIVE suspicion.

But you've got me thinking it's the damn coco from Home Hardware.
I sure picked the wrong time to try coco.

The next 5 will be in potting soil (not Monsato) which I'm hoping will answer the coco suspicion. And hopefully, by then, I'll know whether I can use the THRIVE again.

Yield are directly tied to your lighting and you are really underlit,

>> I didn't do so hot with 1K HPS and 600 MH either. I find the T5s are like a friggin' easy bake oven for seedlings so I have to pull 3 of the 4 tubes.

As for the LEDs, the steetlamps are just too scary for me. I bought the LEDS from Cosmos (I think ?) in BC a year ago and managed a grow or two before seed nonsense started and noticed much tighter node spacing and more product further down the plant where the lamps left me with fluff down there. The buds were more dense too. The yield was no better but I sleep better and I'm not afraid to leave the place for a few hours.



but that is a discussion for when the plants get a bit larger. Put them in a small space that you can keep warmer.

>> the grow room is the warmest room in the house. It is winter but I am maintaining the minimums in there. It is never below 19C and the medium never below 20C

There is nothing wrong with using hot water to get your water to the temp you want.

>> Can't agree there, hot water has something in it I can't recall, sodium? And it would throw off nute ratios and pH I'd think. Just as easy to fill a bucket with it and drop a bottle into the bucket with a probe in the bottle. It works quite well.

Make sure not to let the stem get wet as this can cause damping off.

>> I've stopped any misting except for the buried seeds and I spoon feed the seedlings. I also read to fill to the top of the pot with medium to improve air circulation. I've never had that damping off problem. (I hope the poltergeist didn't see me type that)


I really like Hemp Depot. You might check them out. I have never heard of those other places.
IronSeeds in Toronto goofed and made me wait TWO MONTHS before I got my order but when it got here, there were an extra 20 seeds and the whole order was feminized, and so far, they are all coming up so I can't blame him and he saved me major hassle. I'd have to go back. Too bad I didn't stumble across this place 6 months ago, I know it's going to cost me.

Again, thank you, COCO and THRIVE were your suspicions and you'll be the first to know. Much appreciated.
 

zem

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yeah I agree with THG, coco is hard to sprout seeds in it as it hold a lot of water. I attribute plants sprouting and freezing to overwatering and low temps. 21c is not ideal but far from causing this problem
 

sopappy

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yeah I agree with THG, coco is hard to sprout seeds in it as it hold a lot of water. I attribute plants sprouting and freezing to overwatering and low temps. 21c is not ideal but far from causing this problem
That is the temp of the medium and it sneeks up to 23,24 during the "day"
but as soon as they break the soil, they are baked at about 29 during the "day" 1.5" from the T5 tube (and down to 21 again with the light off)

So that leaves overwatering yet I'm told you can't overwater with coco.
Very frustrating.

I'm searching for a nice soil recipe to try but you guys are stark, raving mad :) I can't believe how complicated they are....
I used to use just bags of miracle grow potting soil all the way to harvest getting at least an oz per
Lots of truth to that old adage... if it ain't broke.
1 oz is better then 0 oz
Damn, I don't want to go back lugging that stuff in and out of here again, I guess a pile in my driveway saying "Free Clean Fill" would be a dumb eh?
I should start a thread on discarding soil, lots of clever folks here.

And thanks for your remarks.
 

pcduck

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I have been using the same soil for 4 years now. No need to toss your soil if you feed it.
 

zem

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oh you can definitely overwater coco. notice how the commercial coco growers of veggies transplant quite sizable plants that were started in rockwool, after a certain size, it becomes harder to overwater as long as there is proper drainage, because plants drink up the water before drowning in it. but for seedlings, you can definitely drown them in it
 

sopappy

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Thanks all. I'm pretty sure it's the coco. I stumbled across an ASK ED piece and he had a method to test the coco. You run distilled water through it and check the ppm of the runoff. Good stuff has a ppm of about 50 he sez. Mine was about 600 so I flushed them all except the ones just coming up now. They are about 150 now. I ran out of water, more tomorrow. There must be some roots there because I was afraid they'd fall over (or float hahaha) when I was pouring but they do seem well anchored. That was encouraging.

I must admit it bothered me throwing out the earth. I even go through the trouble of sifting out all the roots too so I've been throwing out some pretty good stuff.
Well, if the flush doesn't fix things, I'm bringing in that bag.
 
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I though that you planted in something other than coco this time?

I see no reason not to reuse soil if the plant was healthy. I do screen everything also. I have 2 27 gal totes on my deck with used soils in them and a 30 gal barrel that I use for the super soil. The used soil gets mixed back with some of the super soil. My ex used to start with new soil every grow. The used soil went into the veggie garden and we bought and mixed new medium every grow. I discovered later that this really is not necessary if your plants were healthy.
 

sopappy

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I though that you planted in something other than coco this time?

I see no reason not to reuse soil if the plant was healthy. I do screen everything also. I have 2 27 gal totes on my deck with used soils in them and a 30 gal barrel that I use for the super soil. The used soil gets mixed back with some of the super soil. My ex used to start with new soil every grow. The used soil went into the veggie garden and we bought and mixed new medium every grow. I discovered later that this really is not necessary if your plants were healthy.
Hi Jo, no, not yet... You're thinking of the 5 coming up now with no THRIVE, the next 5 were supposed to be soil but with the coco at 600, I'm flushing to try and save them. It's down to 150 ppm but I'm doing it again tonight. I'll spoon feed them bottled water and pray they respond... if not, full nutes, ready or not, I'm fed up now :)

I screen it and discard it hahaha, too bad, it's probably better than half the crap in the stores, sigh, live & learn
 

000StankDank000

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Bro you need to deal with Legit seed banks. Did you know secured seed on young street have a germ gurentee . You need to go to the legit places not the hustlers bro. Don't feel bad I got taken for $150 from that one you see in high times . Go to youngster dam
 

sopappy

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Bro you need to deal with Legit seed banks. Did you know secured seed on young street have a germ gurentee . You need to go to the legit places not the hustlers bro. Don't feel bad I got taken for $150 from that one you see in high times . Go to youngster dam
Thanks kindly, I wrote that down.
 

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