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when does a hybrid = strain

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astra007

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after several inquiries on this question on breeder forums, the main answer i got was: when the breeder invents a name to market his seeds. not any thing about genetics or only 1 pheno all the time. thats in canada. in europe its totally different. in europe it has to breed true in each generation. kinda blows resdog, dan vanpot and several other breeders here right out of the water. eh?
 
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astra007

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therefore NL is a true breeding strain but godbud, sour diesel, and several others i know of: are not.
 

rockydog

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I though it had to be stable for so many years before it was an actual strain.
 

Mutt

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astra007 said:
therefore NL is a true breeding strain but godbud, sour diesel, and several others i know of: are not.
This statement brings up a whole mess of complex concepts. This has made me do some digging. So forgive me if this doesn't make a whole heap of sense, as I'm still trying to sort things out. Pardon me for thinkin outloud here.
Just my thought as of now, but will probably change.
Even from F1 seeds you can still get recessive alleles within the genotype. So even NL cannot be 100% stable. NL to me would be a good canidate due to its ease and stability. It comes down to the extremely difficult selection process, and how it is handled. This in itself would be a difficult post. Some Genotype isolation concepts blow my mind, then throwin alleles. The Genetic Markers that need to be determined, I still haven't got a grasp on yet. It even makes you wonder all the seeds floating around there are even "strains". I go down the list and it seems like its all coming from a few true landrace pools. So besides the "grails" is everything else a very stable cross? Listed as a strain to sell seeds? I gotta read more. My brain is still bent on some things.
 
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astra007

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rockydog: breeding true to 1 phenotype means stable. mutt: welcome to canadian breeding. lets take NL fer an example. ok this is a bc strain that was taken to holland by clone. in bc they had several pheno's of NL BUT only 1 pheno went to holland. 1 clone = 1 pheno. there in holland under lab workings the strain with females and males were created to become the MASTER strain of NL. this is the strain that neville used to get his famous HAZE. with me so far?

now back in canada we got the pre - master genetics of NL running around and becoming hashplant, romulan, skunk, and god knows what else. most of the canadian hashplants including the mighty mites had NL in the parentage. this was NOT the MASTER strain. and also KUSH.

In holland the MASTER NL was crossed with afghani to produce NL#2 or oasis. you now have NL #1 - 15. NL#5 was chosen by the canadian creators to become the breeding strain of their choice but you still have a lot of NL hybrids running around. therefore you are getting unstable "strains".

other established canadian seedbanks and creator/breeders are not going to throw their genetics into the garbage dump and start fresh with either NL#1 or NL#5, now are they?
 

Mutt

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but I was under the assumption that its recessive genotypes that is what is being looked for..not so much phenotypes. isolating phenos is good, but genotypes and purging unwanted alleles is what the goal is when creating a strain?

Boy I'm glad this section was added, get some good discussions going on. :)
 
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astra007

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still there mutt? now the same can be said about blueberry but in this case not only the strain; but the creator went to holland. to create the MASTER strain. now because of all the confusion in the genetic mj world, the europeans created a database. land based originals came to be like; afghani, kush, cambodian, thai, mextex, jamacian, skunk, ect..... and into this as sub types came; hashplant, the white family, mighty mites, and anything canadian that THEY thought was stable.

but like all creators - too err is human. even i can see that skunk and the jamacian strains were all created man made strains and should be in the sub category. try telling that to a jamacian mj farmer with a machete in his hands. so now the master definitions are "flawed". so any strain that is inbred or f/m crossbred and produce a stable next generation = 1 pheno; is called a STRAIN. NOW ENTERS SEED MARKETING AND THE CONMEN.
 

Mutt

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So it does fall back to the loss of land races. by taking an untouched genotype and switching its environment thus the alleles show there colors so to speak. So it is a gradual decay of strains and loss of the original gene pool.
Which is a whole other thread on how the constant inbreeding can cause alleles to not be purged and see the "true" genotype. Which would make genetic markers more difficult to determine.
So eventual base strains and working off the same genetic pool will cause a "cease" in new authentic strains. not just stabilized crosses.

Well man, I gotta get some stuff done. I'll check back here later.
 
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astra007

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the LBO or land based originals are still there. and anything that has been created from them over 20 years old. like blueberry, flo, blue velvet, white widow, hashplant, NL#5, AK-47, and then some that are getting close like sweettooth, mighty mites ect....
 
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