Yield problem ... tough one ... expert needed

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GrowRebel

Another Female Grower
Joined
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Hi everybody. I've posted this before, but no one was able to help, hopefully there is someone on the board that can help me now.
I've got a closet grow and a outside grow. I get poor yields from both. I use pro-mix general potting soil. The outdoor plants are getting good sun and I mixed the pro mix with some cow manure when I planted this spring. I don't know what the yields will be this year, but so far the most I can get from one outdoor plant is 2.5OZ. They are clones, and they are from good stock. Northern lights ... Big Bud ... Super Silver Haze. I just don't get it. Last year I averaged one oz per plant. I put up my grow from last year in the grow journal ... you will see that the plants are healthy. I thought light could be a problem indoor, but the plants outside get good light, but I don't get a good yield, so I figure it can't be my lights. I have a 430 HPS and a 150W HPS on the flower level. The flower level is about 3.5 ft. The clone area is a couple of feet, and the lower veg area is about 2.5 ft.
I am using florescent lights for the clones and veg plants. I start off seeds and clones in a 9 oz cup. Then I transplant to a 32 oz cup, then to a one gallon pot. I do the perpetual harvest deal. I have gotten as much as 3/4 oz from them. Now I'm lucky if I get a quarter. I do have spider mites indoor, and I rinse the plants with cold water to flush of the mites and keep them under control. It's almost impossible to get rid of them all. But I don't have spider mites outside, so I don't understand why the outside plants give a poor yield. Last year I planted NL, Big B, SS Haze, my friend's own strain ... cheesexfoxxak47 ... and blockheadxlove potion#1 and a lost, but still loved strain called electric blue.
It's like the Universe doesn't what me to have a lot of weed. My friend who is a great breeder doesn't get it either. He knows I'm using good stock because it's his.
I would really like to figure this out ... I know it's a tough problem, but I'd like to work on it if I can.
I know you will have questions so I will answer them as best I can.:ignore:
 
A few questions......How much are you feeding? Manure takes a while to break down, I'll add manure to my soil for next years grow and find it's allot more affective after some time to compost. Your plants need allot of additional food if thats they're only source of nutrition. They will essentially grow a proportionate amount to how much you feed and water. How much do you water? Do you flower indoors in 1 gallon pots? And outdoors? Hows your ventalation and heat in the flowering area indoors? Whats the ph of your applicable water and soil? These kind of questions will lead to a solution.

Spider mites can severly subtract from over-all yeild. They actually prefer arid grow-rooms and are almost impossible to kill off in later cycle flowering rooms. Pyrethrums are effective and neem oil can help reduce numbers. Predatory bugs like ladybugs work real well also. Before any serious progress indoors can be seen I'd suggest getting rid of the mites completely. Often and unfortuneatly in some long infestation situations the flowering room literally has to start fresh. The perpetual harvest system can lead to new plants easily harboring new mites that spread quickly to old and vis a versa.

I've had similar problems at times w/ production. No matter the solution change or fix only one thing at a time and analyze the out come. Eventually you'll narrow it down. Best of luck..............
 
clanchattan said:
are your o/d plants in pots?
What is "o/d"?

jmansweed said:
A few questions......How much are you feeding?
I feed when the plant needs it. I don't want to take the chance of over fert.



jmansweed said:
Manure takes a while to break down, I'll add manure to my soil for next years grow and find it's allot more affective after some time to compost.
I used old manure. It was sitting around for awhile according to the guy that gave it to me.


jmansweed said:
Your plants need allot of additional food if thats they're only source of nutrition. They will essentially grow a proportionate amount to how much you feed and water.
Last year I over did it a bit with the fert. I got some bud burn because of it ... this was the outside plants.


jmansweed said:
How much do you water?
I water as needed.


jmansweed said:
Do you flower indoors in 1 gallon pots?
Yes ... and at one time I was able to get 3/4 oz per plant indoor.


jmansweed said:
And outdoors?
they are in the ground outside


jmansweed said:
Hows your ventalation and heat in the flowering area indoors?
It get hot in the summer months ... all I have is a couple of fans and a exhaust fan for the 430W light. I wondered about that, but that's not the case outside, yet I still get a low yield from them.


jmansweed said:
Whats the ph of your applicable water and soil? These kind of questions will lead to a solution.
The PH is about 7 a bit lower than than. I use tab water ... I let it sit for several hours for the chlorine to fade.


jmansweed said:
Spider mites can severly subtract from over-all yeild. They actually prefer arid grow-rooms and are almost impossible to kill off in later cycle flowering rooms. Pyrethrums are effective and neem oil can help reduce numbers. Predatory bugs like ladybugs work real well also. Before any serious progress indoors can be seen I'd suggest getting rid of the mites completely. Often and unfortuneatly in some long infestation situations the flowering room literally has to start fresh. The perpetual harvest system can lead to new plants easily harboring new mites that spread quickly to old and vis a versa.
I understand where you are coming from, but I don't have any problems with mites on the outdoor plants yet I still don't get a good yield. I find that rinsing the indoor plants with forceful cold water helps keep the numbers down.


jmansweed said:
I've had similar problems at times w/ production. No matter the solution change or fix only one thing at a time and analyze the out come. Eventually you'll narrow it down. Best of luck..............
Thank you ... and thanks for posting.
 
Hello GrowRebel. I'm no expert, but I have a few thoughts that may help, although JMan's giving a lot of great pointers in his post above.

IMHO a one gallon pot is way too small. When I'm in flower (indoor grower) I use a 6 gallon pot to allow the plant a good root structure.

As far as outdoors, you said you use cow manure and that you feed them when they need it. 2 questions: What is the NPK of the fertilizer you're giving them? Too much nitrogen will affect flowering. How deep is the hole you start in? In other words, do you dig a deep and wide hole and fill it with a good soil mix before planting? I know that in my soil outdoors, if I don't dig a hole at least 2' deep x 2' in diameter and fill it with a good mix, nothing grows well in it.

Good luck to you.
 
Like BB said indoors the one gallon typically results in excess salt build up and root bound issues when used throughout a flowering cycle. Both can easily asist in reducing your yeild. You mentioned also that temps can climb on you sometimes, indoors even a few days of high temps can stress things out for extended periods contributing to the issue. Do you suffer production issues more in Summer months indoors?

" I feed when the plant needs it. I don't want to take the chance of over fert."

I primarily grow indoors, and find greater success when I anticipate what the plants need rather than wait for them to tell me what they need. This theory applies most specifically to feeding programs. When a plant signals it needs nutes it has already depleted it's resources and hence will suffer production loss and experience some stress. IMO to maintain a flourishing production cycle plants should recieve what they need when or before they need it. I'd add less food more often if your concerned w/ over-fert issues.

Lastly, I know your indoor and outdoor strains are the same and you said your confident with the genetics. However, it could very well be that the production levels are unrelated issues in and out. Hope this helped some -best of luck..................
 
BBFan said:
Hello GrowRebel. I'm no expert, but I have a few thoughts that may help, although JMan's giving a lot of great pointers in his post above.

IMHO a one gallon pot is way too small. When I'm in flower (indoor grower) I use a 6 gallon pot to allow the plant a good root structure.

As far as outdoors, you said you use cow manure and that you feed them when they need it. 2 questions: What is the NPK of the fertilizer you're giving them? Too much nitrogen will affect flowering. How deep is the hole you start in? In other words, do you dig a deep and wide hole and fill it with a good soil mix before planting? I know that in my soil outdoors, if I don't dig a hole at least 2' deep x 2' in diameter and fill it with a good mix, nothing grows well in it.

Good luck to you.






Right here is alot of the basic probs (IMO)
Pot container to small= small yield. Think Trees, the root system has to support whats above ground !
O/d= outdoor. Potting here in the ground means potting soil and all amendments prior to planting will help start and then support that growth during veg times.Personally i dig 3+ feet deep and addd compost / admendments/ additional gooodies.

Read MassP :bucket designs for water table / growing issues most of us dont even think about ! JUST MY .02CENTS
 
get your self some real organic nutes and you wont have to worry about nute burns or overfeeding
 
Of course i wont even bring up genetic's ( Yields in Sat vs INDY) or some of they're special needs.IMO....
 
I'm having problems posting ... when I try to respond and post I get a sever busy message.
 
Happy roots=Happy plants. I would also get yourself some good nutes and a feed schedule for them. I use Advanced Nutrients and luv em. I am able to manipulate the feeding schedule they have on their website for each paticular strain I am growing. I use their liquid stuff for my Indoor Aero set-up and their powdered nutes for outdoors.
 
Hopefully this will post this time.:doh:
BBFan said:
Hello GrowRebel. I'm no expert, but I have a few thoughts that may help, although JMan's giving a lot of great pointers in his post above.

IMHO a one gallon pot is way too small. When I'm in flower (indoor grower) I use a 6 gallon pot to allow the plant a good root structure.
I know, but I was able to get as much as 3/4 oz from them ... I just want to get back to that again. I really don't have the room in my closet grow for anything larger than 1gallon pots ... If I could get a 1/2 oz per plant I would be happy.

BBFan said:
As far as outdoors, you said you use cow manure and that you feed them when they need it. 2 questions: What is the NPK of the fertilizer you're giving them? Too much nitrogen will affect flowering.
Last feeding I used miracle grow both the veg and flower stuff ... the veg was 24-8-16 and the flower was 15-30-15 I used half strength and mixed them together, because the ladies really needed the nitrogen ... we were getting a lot of rain up until almost two weeks ago, and they were really hurting for something to eat. I tried to feed them earlier in the season, but with so much rain it wasn't very effective. Next feeding I plan to use 10-60-10 bloom feeder.

BBFan said:
How deep is the hole you start in? In other words, do you dig a deep and wide hole and fill it with a good soil mix before planting? I know that in my soil outdoors, if I don't dig a hole at least 2' deep x 2' in diameter and fill it with a good mix, nothing grows well in it.Good luck to you.
Well this year I made the holes about 2-3ft deep and 3 times the size of the pot they were in depending on the plant and it's size pot.

jmansweed said:
Like BB said indoors the one gallon typically results in excess salt build up and root bound issues when used throughout a flowering cycle. Both can easily asist in reducing your yeild.
What can I do to reduce the salt build up? Flush from time to time?

jmansweed said:
You mentioned also that temps can climb on you sometimes, indoors even a few days of high temps can stress things out for extended periods contributing to the issue. Do you suffer production issues more in Summer months indoors?
You know I really couldn't say ... I never thought about it before ... I would have to say no because I can't say. I will have to start keeping a record and see if that is true.

jmansweed said:
I primarily grow indoors, and find greater success when I anticipate what the plants need rather than wait for them to tell me what they need. This theory applies most specifically to feeding programs. When a plant signals it needs nutes it has already depleted it's resources and hence will suffer production loss and experience some stress. IMO to maintain a flourishing production cycle plants should recieve what they need when or before they need it. I'd add less food more often if your concerned w/ over-fert issues.
Sounds like a good suggestion ... feeding less would be better and keep the girls in good shape.

jmansweed said:
Lastly, I know your indoor and outdoor strains are the same and you said your confident with the genetics. However, it could very well be that the production levels are unrelated issues in and out. Hope this helped some -best of luck..................
Yes ... you may be right ... after the harvest I'm going to redo the holes and get ready for next spring ... this time buy a big 50# bag of fert from the feed store and add that.

meds4me said:
Right here is alot of the basic probs (IMO)
Pot container to small= small yield. Think Trees, the root system has to support whats above ground !
O/d= outdoor. Potting here in the ground means potting soil and all amendments prior to planting will help start and then support that growth during veg times.Personally i dig 3+ feet deep and addd compost / admendments/ additional gooodies.
Read MassP :bucket designs for water table / growing issues most of us dont even think about ! JUST MY .02CENTS
OMG:shocked:I can't even grow in dirt ... I'd be completely inept at hydro! How big are the plants when you put them in the ground?
 

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