Zarnon takes aim at a fall and winter grow

[Zarnon]

Lights (part 2) -Spectrum and HID

If you understand what the visible spectrum of light is (400-700) nm, then you will have an easy time following along. See previous post with links to basic concepts.

Plants use light as a part of photosynthesis, regulating rhythms etc. However, 'all light is not created equal'. Certain parts are more important than others. This includes the blue (400-500nm) and reds (650-680nm). This is where PAR gets off-base as it gives equal weight to this entire range (see previous post).

So what we're talking about is a 'plant sensitivity curve', right? A correct one would show higher levels of response to these two areas? Pic three and the link below are examples of them. There are also many wrong ones. Unfortunately these seem to appear a lot in hydro lit or MJ forums as well. The white line in pic 1 is an incorrect one.

(Another correct plant sensitivity curve from Univ. of Hamburg); http://www.biologie.uni-hamburg.de/b-online/e24/3.htm Note, two bumps at the distal ends of the spectrum (blues and reds).

Curve's differ, here's one for algae http://www.emc.maricopa.edu/faculty/farabee/BIOBK/pigment.gif

So is there a way to tell how my particular light breaks down? Color temperature is a good start.

'Color Temperature' is measured in degrees/Kelvin; The lower end is warmer (more reds) while higher is cooler (more blues). A HPS is 2000-3000k (3000 extended spectrum), while your MH can go from 3000-6500 (3000 also ex. spec). I've been able to find a color temp for all HID lights I've looked at.

Here are some examples of color temperature:

Sunrise/Sunset: 3200k
Halogen bulb: 3500k
Midday (sun overhead): 5500k
Overcast: 6500k
Shade 8000k
Blue Sky: 9000-12000k


We push 2000-3000 spectrum bulbs for flowering. Why is that? In the literature, a MH bulb is recommended if you have no access to sunlight while HPS are reccommended as a secondary + sun. Maybe it's b/c a nonextended spec HPS is creating a predominant red light, redder than a sunset and then intensifying it by a factor of ten.

I think of Kal-el on his balcony, checking out the Red Giant dominating the sky. Well, worked for Superman, surely Superbud?

Compare the spectral analysis for both. Pic 1 is HPS, 2 is MH. Compare both of them to an accurate plant sensitivity curve (pic 3).

Look at where they're going! Even the reds useful to the plant appear equal or higher with the MH but the MH has a lot more useful blues and blue-greens.

Summary and Zarnon's experiment: The MH appears to duplicate sunlight, be recommended as a primary light and have greater levels of useful light where it counts. I'm going to try an Agrosun with my clones all through flowering and see how they do! Stay tuned.

 

[cyberquest]

i know i will be right here with you watching man, i think we are on to something about the whole lighting issue. i wonder if flowering with a MH and a HPS together would have any adverese affects on plant growth.

 

[Ravishing_68]

I like it, I LIKE IT!!! I totally agree on you that too much of anything can be a bad thing. Please keep a journal I would love to know your outcome. eace:

 

[Zarnon]

Here's the thing CQ... with any of our wonderful ideas, we have to have something to compare it to (our control group). Ideally you'd take two clones from the same mother, use the same exact enviro and change one thing and one thing only and see if it made any diff.

Now my experiment 'aint perfect, but the clones will have the exact same enviro with the only diff being they start in right before flower, not identical to seed grow. I think it'll be fun; we'll call it 'Zarnon's Reluctant Grow'.

Sometimes changes are value neutral; they have no effect on the grow, but that's great info too. That might be the case after all our intellectualizing about lights. There is probably a bunch of 'wisdom' that deserves to be tested this way.

Trivia Question: Where do light recommendations for MJ come from (20w/ft or 7000lumen/ft)?

 

[Zarnon]

Schmoke Report!

Ok, I have a nice frosty bowl that I just toked off the 'snowbud'. Still 'green' but already tasting pretty piney and sweet. It will be a few weeks before she develops her distinct character.

It is very body feeling weed, not much for thinking LOL...

AND NO SEEDS!

2 smaller plants, 10.8 z's dried, manicured and jarred NUGZ. :ccc:

 

[Zarnon]

Zar's lil Experiment

Metal Halide in! Well, if nothing else I'll be taking better pictures!

3 clones now in (the one in the back just put in tonight, the other have been in four days).

Pic of the two mature plants I have left. I expect a pretty good yield. The front plant dominates(go figure!). A little bigger and those buds will equal my avatar. That MH has its work cut out to beat the HPS!

 

[THE BROTHER'S GRUNT]

Whats up Zarnon. Congrats on a very fine harvest my friend. I can see one problem though you forgot to pack my bong. :bong1: Are the clones you just put in the same strain? You da man.

 

[Zarnon]

Hey TBG, that's quite a compliment coming from da MAIN man! heh heh... Yea, they are the same strain so I'm gonna have an arsenal of AK47.

One problem I have is when I found out they were females I took off all the identifying tags (DOH!). There is only one I'm sure of, but it's a 'snowbud' clone.

Dude! It would be an honor to pack yer bowl. My dream would be to meet a couple of members at some gathering (Rainbow?), have a good Z each and have a no-holds barred SESSION mang!


:afroweed::bong2: :joint4: :bongin: :joint: :bong: :ccc: :48:

Mmmmmmmm, just went and opened the jars... smells like cookies in there!!

 

[Ravishing_68]

Yes, there are a couple of people I would love to meet in person... have been so much help!
What is Rainbow? Is it in the US? You know, the cheapest place for all to meet is Vegas...the air fare is always cheap cuz Vegas figures they'll get your money anyway...
We were to go to Europe this year and of course Amsterdam was on the venue... but we had to postpone the trip due to my recent surgery and Dave's father being ill. But I'm in for a gathering!!!

 

[theyorker]

Well I hope that party invite is open! Zarnon that looks like some mighty fine smoke and by my calculations a six month supply. Good job.

 

[Zarnon]

Yorker, I am a heavy smoker (buds with morning coffee kinda guy) and with really good bud is I'll go through about 4z's in 3 month or longer! If it was commercial I would be tokin' a lot more.

One of the last bags I bought was terribly immature untrimmed microbuds. I went through that 150$ half in a weekend chasing a high. Now I'm out of the loop bay-bay! :aok:

Now, great Homegrown? I'm not trying to overly brag but the stuff I just pulled is some of the best weed I've ever done. If I can cure this right I'd pull this out with anyone. Just good all the way through; looks, aroma, taste, finish, high... Papi is very proud!

Rav - I have great memories of A'damm, I went and read about it.. but now seems kind of a rip. I mean 20euros a GRAM? ***?? I haven't been in over 20 years (I was 19 when I went) but it was very laid back, cheap, fun! I'd like to go to Cannibus cup only because there is an expo where you can meet manufacturers, learn growing techniques (hopefully). The whole 'pay 400 bucks to be a judge!' seems kinda lame IMHO.

 

[theyorker]

That is why I am starting my grow Zarnon. I like to smoke good weed and everything I buy just leaves me hanging. It stinks because they won't give the plants the time they need to do their thing.

As I was reading your comments about this being the best stuff you've ever grown, I started to laugh as I thought "that's just bragging!!" One bong hit and your stoned??? Well I just say you are a lucky dude and I hope I am there with you in 3 months or maybe a little less.

 

[Zarnon]

Yorker... whaaa? Dude, At this point I don't think there's anything that could get me stoned on one hit LOL... (hash..maybe. mmm hash).

I can see how it would come off tho about 'da best'. I changed that b/c I thought it was overly egotistic. At the same time, I wish I could share it with ya. That one plant is the best I've done in terms of weight (those 'neutron' nugs are almost double the wt compared to the other plant!) aroma, taste, high, smell, etc. I really feel I got the 'true' AK47 with this one. If I was breeding this is the one I'd keep.

Red/White, TBG, and many others grow nugz that ranks up with A'dam I'd reckon. I've been there many times and it's great weed/hash but it's not anything majik. As long as you have the genetics you can do just as well (or maybe better?).

 

[Zarnon]

Number 3 down!

Welp, spent the day doing trimmin.... this is the first of the larger two plants. Check out the buds as I was unhooking 'em lol..

The fourth will be another 2 weeks I think! She has to be predominately Sativa. The buds are so long compared to the compact round ones here.

Zarnon's Mini Exp - How much Weight is Lost During Dry and Cure?

I'm curious to see how much water loss I have in dry, then cure, then total. I figure it's worth knowing.

So I weighed up a random nug. In the third pic it's the last nug on the right lower string, a detail shot follows.

Wt after manicure - 25gms.

I'll wait until I feel she's ready to be jarred (about 5 days usu), then do a second. The last I'll do three weeks later.

 

[Zarnon]

Clones In!

Notice the soil grow? Yep. I was very impressed with Red/White's grow. I am trying my best to use it as my base. Thank you Red/White for the advice you've given me! :aok: It's cool because I'm growing it side by side with a sister clone started at the same time (last night) in hydro.

So my little low-tech veg room did it's job. No meters, timers, only fluoro, hand watering and two fans. . Kept those clones growing over 2 months! I still have one more to grow. Dudn't it look all lonely!? Doing the hand watering really helped me develop that 'feel' for when they need it. This was soilless to make it more compatible w/ a hydro transplant so I'll have to adjust to watering straight soil.

The pic shows the diff being under hydro/HID (see text in photo). It's just not fair! :cry:

So lotsa different experiments.. Elephant Man, are you checking this out? :dancing:

 

[offgrid]

zarnon,

i read this whole thread from start to finish. i understand when you say you put a lot of effort into posting and sometimes it feels like it's wasted...but noooOOooo, it's not true! i'm digging your thread! i mean, here you have a SuPeR-GRoW-RooM!!! with crazy balancing of nutes and humidity and etc...and i'm just trying to get one tiny plant to make it with a ghetto set-up. when i get more settled into a place/country, i'll be thinking back to your labor and ingenuity to guide me in my endeavors.

i think i'm just impatient, cos tomorrow will be exactly one week from when my plant sprouted and i don't know at what stage of development she's supposed to be at. however, your detailed diary has let me see what to expect under optimal conditions (and how mine will take awhile longer and not be as impressive, but i'm learning). so yeah, thanks for the diary. it was a fun read ^.^

 

[parkingjoe]

5-6gms bone dry zarnon ill bet ya yeild on it...

rofl

pkj

 

[Zarnon]

ParkingJoe: I'm gonna say 6. I have never weighed so I dunno how much water is lost. I'm going to judge it by feel (dry and cure) then weigh so I'm not influenced by the numbers.

Offgrid: Welcome! Thanks for your words. It's what makes it worthwhile. I remember when I was learning and reading so much info, some of it very confusing and contradictory. I wanted to get beyond the 'wow great buds' threads and get the details. I'm glad you got something out of this.

 

[Elephant Man]

Sorry Zarnon, been real busy but I am watching. Very nice to see you doing experiments too. I have MH in flowering room too, as well as a hortilux eye and overdriven flouros. I read that the extra UV from halides can insrease potency and resin production, but possibly be slightly down on weight...sounds right up our alley.

Wanted to tell you, having just tested my third strain harvested, I am guessing I am going to be a sativa smoker...I am really enjoying my Jack Herer hybrid. Very mellow long term 'fine cigar' like smoke with medium potency, but no rushes or peakiness...super creative high...skunky scent. Look into it, if you haven't already.

Edit: One of my mentors has told me that plants flowered under HPS will burn through higher levels of P, Mg, sometimes Iron. Under MH, N and K.

 

[Ravishing_68]

Zarnon, perhaps take this new grow to a new thread... I know I want to watch your results of hydro vs. soil.

If you can use the same lighting, the same environment, and document each week, this would be a very interesting project. I love anything scientific. I have an excel document that I have made to keep track of my grows and then when I get enough experience I can really look and see what made the difference.

I am like most on here, don't much care about the yield, though of course with as much work as we put in, we want a decent yield, I'm looking at quality. Keep us up on your project! ~ Rav