DIY co2 delivery system

[RAR.]

hello to everyone, looking for some input or ideas how to build this diy system. We know we can use dry ice, that's just really not feasible for myself. Then we know we can use baking soda and vinegar to produce co2. There is one availabe that's a retail version but I like the diy method. First known is the baking soda, I will toss this idea out to someone who might have a answer. Can you compress baking soda under pressure to create a hard cube. If so then you could place you baking soda cube in the bottom of a 3 gallon bucket. The next part would be getting the vinegar to drip on to the harden cube of baking soda. The thing that came to mind would be mount some kind of tupper ware container to the underside of the bucket lid, and out the bottom of tupper ware container do a connector and a adjustable drip irrigation to drop the vinegar on to the baking soda to create the reaction to produce the co2. Now we have the containment and creation of co2, you would have to control the drips of vinegar to maybe 1 or 3 per hour. I also thought one might be able to use a medical IV bag to control the drips of vinegar a little more control. Now how would do we get the co2 out of the bucket to the plants. Well what comes to mind is use a air pump,find the intake on the air pump, create intake duct work down into the bucket and use the 1/4" tubbing to deliver the co2 to each plant. The air pump would probably have to be on a timmer, it's just a thrown together thought. Any inputs of design will be appreciated.

 

[legalize_freedom]

These types of CO2 set ups do very little to help with your yeilds. If you want to benefit from CO2 you will need to go with a co2 generator, or the actual tank system...all of these other ways yeist and sugar, vinegar, and baking soda are a wsate of time and money, and do very little if anything for your yeild. You will be much better off focusing your attention on ventilating your space, as long as you are bringing in plenty of co2 rich air to your plants and exhausting old stale air your plants will recieve all of the c02 that they require.

Without all the controls in place for co2 to be able to measure ppm's etc these systems are a waste of time, space and energy...I'm speaking from experience I have tried them all.

 

[RAR.]

Thanks for your input. I do have plenty of input to exhaust air exchange i have no idea how to measure the co2 level. I will consider the lessons you learned a valuable learning experience. It was just acrazy idea I had. I will take your advice and drop the idea from my already clogged ideas within my brain cavity, LOL

 

[DonJones]

RAR,

I haven't seen your name for a while. How are you doing?

One of the most important reasons for not using CO2 supplementation that legalize freedom didn't mention, is that it can be dangerous or even fatal if used improperly and CO2 should only be used AFTER everything else is right dead on in your area and your techniques. It is NOT a cure all for other things not being dead on.

Used properly in the proper conditions it can be a great way to take that last step in maximizing your production. At least that is what all of my advisers tell me.

Grewat smoking.

 

[Hick]

RAR,

I haven't seen your name for a while. How are you doing?

One of the most important reasons for not using CO2 supplementation that legalize freedom didn't mention, is that it can be dangerous or even fatal if used improperly and CO2 should only be used AFTER everything else is right dead on in your area and your techniques. It is NOT a cure all for other things not being dead on.

Used properly in the proper conditions it can be a great way to take that last step in maximizing your production. At least that is what all of my advisers tell me.

Grewat smoking.

I agree with your co2 addition being employed only after 'everything' else is dialed in to optimal. ...but I'm also curious, just "how" many buckets with vinegar dripping on baking soda would it take, to produce enough co2 to reach a "toxic" level in say an "average" sized grow area??? for the sake of this conversation, let's call "average" a 3'X3' area 5' tall....

 

[RAR.]

Hey don I'm doing good,I've just been sitting back taking all the vast amount of info you folks have dedicated to this passion. It's amazing the amount of info you can learn from this site awesome job to everyone. I'm a newbie as you can see from my info, "junior" LOL. Congrats Don with your med desp. Grow for those in need. Your heart is in the right place. I hope one day our blind sided poltician can see some light. But I'm not going into politics on this post. It disgusts me to see how many suffering people are forced to intake synthetic mess that are based on naturally occuring plants. It's all designed so the big pharmacy comp can get bigger. We all need to pay attention to a little corp called codex they are wanting to ban all minerals, vit, herbal stores and impose taxes upon those growing any organic herbs veggies etc.. Just google and keep a very watchful eye. My skill is still newbie by all means. I and ready to contribute when something significant happens. I took everyones advice and started with tom, peppers, I am running some kind of hydro which is basically a top feed drip emitters, a fogger with a flood and drain design to keep constant water flow in fogger a 14 gallon res. With 7 gals of gh 3 part solution. My site has 20 3" net pots and I just finished 4 dwc diy 5 gallon buckets to transplant because my growth is getting a little bunched up. I am running a 12 lamp t5 fixture with a out put of 600000 lumens of light that i can drop right down onto the canopy for light penetration, so far the plants have not tried to stretch the are very short and bulky, I know there is alot of skeptism with flourous I just got a good deal on this fixture and wanted to try it. I have a 4x4 grow tent is my space. I am almost ready to start the adventure into mj once I prove to myself I can bloom regular veggies. I still have to do more research with passing the drug test, it would be a random p test or more than likely a work injury that would prompt the test anyways, have to figure out how to pass within a hour of a injury. I look forward to the very near mj grow.

 

[legalize_freedom]

Yes, I was only advising that these systems Don't work, to save this member the headaches. I didn't feel that I needed to go into any detail on the posotives and negatives of CO2, only that these ways of implementing them were useless. Had he asked a question about the safety issues involved in setting up a usable system, I would have probably not replyied to the thread, as I have little to no experience in this field, even though many of my growing buddies do use CO2.


By the way I'm very interested in that light. I hope that when you start your mj grow that you will do a grow journal along with it so we can see the light preform, seems like you are pushing enough lumens from the light. I just ordered a t5 for my veg cabinet to replace a 400w that I just thought was overkill for my application. I thought the 400 would be much better used in my flowering room with the 600w. So I'm interested in the performance of the t5.

 

[DonJones]

Hick,

Why don't you access the excellent reference materials here on the forum and elsewhere that I know you have access to and determine what is a toxic level, then answer your own question and share it with us?

it can be dangerous or even fatal if used improperly would seem self explanatory so I don't understand your question unless it is just to stir something up.

I stand by my CAUTIONARY post because when you start reading in detail, because all of the reputable sources on CO2 supplementation caution about the dangers of entering a CO2 supplemented room without proper clearing of the CO2 and replacement with a more O2 friendly atmosphere and about the risks of CO2 supplementation in occupied areas.

Personally, so long as someone knows the dangers involved I do NOT care what they introduce into their grow areas or their own bodies. I do however have problems with allowing someone to embark on a potentially dangerous path without warning them.

It is in my opinion immoral. My views of morality are my own and I'm not calling you or anyone else immoral, just explaining why I feel the need to advise people of the hazards as well as the possible benefits in a particular act.

I am more than a little curious why so many people here on the forum feel it is inappropriate to advise caution in POTENTIALLY dangerous pursuits/situations and yet act almost paranoid about other things..

Great smoking to everyone and everyone is always free to ignore any advice I offer.

 

[DonJones]

legalize freedom,

I don't think anyone was questioning your advice or why you gave it. I found it to be very clear, both in the message and the motive behind it. I thank you for sharing it with RAR and the other readers. I gave up on trying to use the rep system to thank because it is always telling me to spread rep around even when I have thanked several people since the individual I'm trying to thank. To me any system that tries to force readers to spread rep around makes it meaningless, because then it is no longer a reliable way to see how others have found the poster's creditability to be. It turns it into a feel nice, stroke each other system rather than a system of rating the usefulness or a particular post. But is is the system that the forum uses so that's the mods' call, not mine --but I don't have to use it. On the other hand, if it works for the rest of you, then go right ahead and use it.

Thanks again legalize freedom.

Great smoking everyone.

editted for spelling and grammar by DonJones

 

[greenfriend]

5000ppm co2 is harmful to animals and humans. this is only possible with tanked co2 in a completely sealed room. even with Co2 generators, 5000ppm is unattainable because o2 is required to burn the propane/natural gas, the generator will automatically shutoff when theres not enough o2 to burn.

 

[Tater]

the generator will automatically shutoff when theres not enough o2 to burn.

So will your consciousness. A lack of O2 is just as dangerous as a toxic level of CO2. Its not the toxic CO2 levels you need to worry about but CO2's ability to displace oxygen.

RAR one more thing you need to know about using CO2, it's best used in a sealed environment without a lot of air exchange. Otherwise you vent beneficial CO2 out of the environment. There are plenty of resources available on the net and this forum, google sealed room co2. Do some research and you will quickly realize CO2 can be more hassle than its worth until you have the rest of this crazy growing thing we all do down pat. Glad you got the enthusiasm though just direct it in a more productive area lol.

 

[DonJones]

Here is what I found when I goggled "At what level is CO2 harmful to humans?"

A guideline set forth by the American Society of Heating, Refrigerating and Air Conditioning Engineers (ASHRAE) for schools, offices, and areas where people spend extended periods of time indoors is 1000 ppm. Wiki Anwers

Great smoking.

 

[Hick]

Hick,

Why don't you access the excellent reference materials here on the forum and elsewhere that I know you have access to and determine what is a toxic level, then answer your own question and share it with us?

it can be dangerous or even fatal if used improperly would seem self explanatory so I don't understand your question unless it is just to stir something up.

I stand by my CAUTIONARY post because when you start reading in detail, because all of the reputable sources on CO2 supplementation caution about the dangers of entering a CO2 supplemented room without proper clearing of the CO2 and replacement with a more O2 friendly atmosphere and about the risks of CO2 supplementation in occupied areas.

Personally, so long as someone knows the dangers involved I do NOT care what they introduce into their grow areas or their own bodies. I do however have problems with allowing someone to embark on a potentially dangerous path without warning them.

It is in my opinion immoral. My views of morality are my own and I'm not calling you or anyone else immoral, just explaining why I feel the need to advise people of the hazards as well as the possible benefits in a particular act.

I am more than a little curious why so many people here on the forum feel it is inappropriate to advise caution in POTENTIALLY dangerous pursuits/situations and yet act almost paranoid about other things..

Great smoking to everyone and everyone is always free to ignore any advice I offer.

Let's just say, it won't be a concern with a bucket of baking soda...:rofl:...
There is nothing dangerous about that.. unless of course you were to seal your head in the bucket.
..and my question was not to "stir anything up", but to AGAIN reflect your real experience/knowledge... since it 'appeared' that you were once again, spouting some superior intellect or information.

The entire artical can be found HERE (hxxp://www.hempcultivation.com/420/showthread.php?p=544318#post544318)

CO2 Enrichment Guide
In an attempt to educate myself (and provide a resource for the HC.com community), I have been researching and assembling what I hope is a comprehensive guide to CO2 enrichment. I felt like there was a lot of speculation out there, but no real definitive or empirical guide. So here it is!

CO2 ENRICHMENT GUIDE

Carbon dioxide (CO2) is used by plants in photosynthesis, or the conversion of water, atmospheric carbon dioxide and light in the plant's chloroplasts into food energy (simple carbohydrates), with oxygen as a byproduct. Resins and saps in the plants stems and branches then transmit this food around the plant to promote growth, reproduction and prevention of disease.

Photosynthesis stops at night, thus plants do not use CO2 during the night, or lights-out stage. Although enrichment of the atmosphere during the night cycle will not harm the plants, efficient CO2 systems are regulated so that when the lights go out, CO2 emissions stop.

Ambient air at sea level contains approximately 350-500 ppm of carbon dioxide. Higher altitudes and rural locations typically have a lower presence of CO2, while lowlands and urban areas have a higher presence. CO2 can be measured, in parts per million (ppm) of air, using an inexpensive device available in hydroponics supply catalogs and garden shops (approx US$20).

Carbon dioxide enrichment involves increasing the concentrations of CO2 to 4-5 times the normal atmospheric levels, to between 1200-1500 ppm in an enclosed space. Enrichment has been shown to promote faster growth, higher yields, and stronger, healthier plants. Levels higher than 2000 ppm have been shown to retard plant growth. Low levels of CO2 (below 200) have been show to halt vigorous growth, even when all other conditions are ideal. Because of this, any enclosed space requires replenishment of the internal CO2 as it is used by plants, either from ventilation or from CO2 supplementation.



Temperature, humidity, and CO2 concentrations form a triangular relationship in a greenhouse or indoor grow. If all 3 factors are not in equilibrium, there is a risk to the plant in terms of stunted growth, toxicity, or death/disease.

Standard growing conditions typically include concentrations of CO2 at 300-500 ppm, temperatures between 65-80°F, and relatively low humidity (20-40% rH). Studies have shown optimal growth and yields at 90-95°F, 1,500 ppm CO2, 45-50% relative humidity, 7,500-10,000 lumens/square foot of light, and vigorous air movement both above and below the canopy. CO2 enrichment under 80°F, under 7500 lumens/sf, or above 50% humidity is not recommended because plants will not be conducting photosynthesis quickly enough to benefit from the enrichment.

Internal air movement in the grow room is critical to CO2 enrichment. Carbon dioxide is a slightly heavier molecule than other molecules floating around in the gaseous mixture we call air. Thus, CO2 enrichment without air movement will result in the gas settling out of the atmosphere before it has a chance to reach the plants. High temps and humidity without air movement can also encourage mold and bacteria growth.

To calculate the amount of Carbon Dioxide needed to enrich a room to 1500 ppm, first calculate the volume of the growing space. For instance, an 8x8 foot room with an 8 foot ceiling would contain 512 cubic feet of space. Determine the CO2 needed to enrich to 1500 ppm by multiplying the volume of space by .0015.

512 x .0015 = 0.768

Thus, 0.768 cubic feet (or rounded up to 0.8 cu ft ) of carbon dioxide will be needed to enrich this room at 1500 ppm. 1 lb of CO2 is equal to about 8.5 cubic feet at normal temperature and atmospheric pressure.

The rate at which carbon dioxide needs to be replaced is purely a function of how much ventilation the space receives and how many plants are consuming CO2 in the grow space. Only testing monitoring will ensure CO2 levels remain somewhat constant. Grow rooms that rely heavily on external ventilation to control temperatures or smell should not consider CO2 enrichment, because any gas introduced to the space will be blown out as quickly as it's created. A sealed room that relies on no external ventilation is ideal for CO2 enrichment. Since the ideal temperature for CO2 enrichment is much higher than normal, growers who employ this technique will need much less ventilation (if any).

For those who still want or need external ventilation, CO2 enrichment will only succeed if exhaust and enrichment are timed and set on opposing cycles. For instance, in a flowering room an exhaust fan timed to operate during the night would not conflict with CO2 enrichment during the day, when plants can use the additional gas. In vegetative growth rooms, the fans and enrichment would need alternating cycles to make enrichment worthwhile. For those growers using unregulated sysems, CO2 output should be adjusted for both speed and volume to make up for the exhaust.

There is some anecdotal evidence that charging nutrient solutions with seltzer cartridges will encourage plant growth in some hydroponics systems. The CO2 is released into the atmosphere as a byproduct of nutrient movement in the hydro system. This method has not been scientifically proven, nor would not be effective in aeroponic systems where nutrients are largely contained in separate tubs from the leaves and branches of the plant. Spray ring and ebb/flow systems may have the best potential for success with this method.

METHODS OF CO2 PRODUCTION

Tanked CO2



Tanked CO2 is by far the most reliable and controllable method of CO2 enrichment. Bottled CO2, usually available from welding supply and bottled gas vendors, is metered out via regulators and solenoids. It is possible to very finely regulate the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere using technologically advanced digital regulators. In many areas, licenses or permits are required to obtain bottled compressed gasses due to safety regulations.

Advantages
-Very fine control of CO2 using regulators
-Easy to automate, hassle free once set up

Disadvantages
-High initial cost of equipment
-Logistics of delivering and returning heavy bottles to a secure grow area
-The tank becomes a deadly projectile in a catastrophic failure, or can cause a significant and dangerous explosion in a fire.
-Rapid, unexpected release of CO2 can cause over-enrichment and asphyxiation of room occupants.
-Permit/license requirements may make bottled gas difficult to obtain

 

[Hick]

continued....

Fermentation

It is widely known that CO2 is a byproduct of fermentation. CO2 is the gas found in bubbly beverages, such as champagne and beer. The same process that "carbonates" these beverages can be harnessed to create CO2 for a grow area. A pound of sugar will ferment into approx. 1/2 lb of ethyl alcohol and 1/2 lb of CO2. We've determined that we need 0.8 cu ft of CO2 for our 512 cu ft grow room (see above.) Then calculate the size container needed by dividing the size of the grow room by 32.

512 / 32 = 16 gallons. (A tall kitchen garbage can would make a good 16 gal. bin)

Assuming that the bin will produce half alcohol and half CO2, the bin will consume .16 lbs of sugar every four hours, which is roughly 1 lb per day. This means that about 45 lbs of sugar will be used over 6 weeks (assuming that not all sugar is completely converted to alcohol).

To get the process started, mix a pinch of yeast, 12 ounces of warm water and a half-cup of sugar and keep warm and covered until bubbles form in a day or so. Use this mixture to inoculate the main bin.

To create a yeast bin mix, dissolve 3 lbs of sugar per gallon of boiling water. Cool the mix to 80°F before adding the yeast. Locate a container with a tightly fitting lid. The lid should be equipped with a hose to direct CO2 gas towards a fan for distribution into the space. Increased air pressure in the bin will force the gas out of the hose.

Both canister and lid should be thoroughly cleaned with hot soapy water and rinsed well before use. Start off the bin a little more than half full (10 gallons of water and 30 lbs of sugar). Every week, add another gallon of water and 3 lbs of sugar. The yeast bin must remain at 80-85°F for the reaction to continue.

To monitor activity and prevent contaminants from entering the bin, create a fermentation lock by placing the end of the hose into a glass of distilled water. The bubbling water will be an indicator that there is still a reaction in the bin and prevent bacteria from entering the bin through the hose.

Our bin will need to be completely replenished every 6 weeks, or when the bubbling slows. A simple taste test will tell if the bin needs replenishing. If the taste is sweet, there is still sugar in the water and the reaction should continue. If the taste is dry like wine, the bin is mostly alcohol and should be replenished. Some growers preserve a cup of liquid from the old bin and use to inoculate the new bin, however if an infestation is starting to occur, this can contaminate an otherwise fresh bin with bacteria. It's just as easy to inoculate with new yeast as above, and extra yeast stores easily in the refrigerator for months. Corn sugar (available at wine making shops) is a less expensive fermentation medium than regular cane sugar. Other fermentation mediums can be used depending on materials cheaply and readily available to the grower. Corn syrup, maple sap, even old fruit juice can be fermented, although with increased odors and more waste cleanup when the bin is refreshed.

Advantages
-Easy to create with simple materials
-No safety dangers
-Inexpensive materials when purchased in bulk (sugar)
-Ethyl alcohol byproduct can be siphoned off and burned in alcohol lamps for supplemental CO2 enrichment

Disadvantages
-Difficult to regulate
-Fermentation can produce odors
-Large yeast bins are heavy and hard to move.


Dry Ice


Dry ice is nothing but carbon dioxide in its solid form. Dry ice is commercially available nearly everywhere for industrial, medical, and theatrical (fog machine) applications. One pound of dry ice is equal to 8.5 cubic feet of gaseous CO2. Create a CO2 chamber by poking holes in the sides and top of an insulated box, foam cooler, or similar container that can insulate the material from human skin and plants. The box also helps insulate the solid ice so that it vaporizes more slowly. Ideally it should take an entire day for the chunk of ice to vaporize, although smaller chunks may need to be added at intervals through the day to maintain 1500 ppm.

Some growers place their containers of dry ice directly over grow lights. The falling CO2 bathes the plants beneath them and also helps control temperatures from hot lights.

For our 512 CF grow room, about 1 lb of dry ice per day would be needed to keep CO2 at 1500 ppm. At $.60/lb, dry ice would be a very cost effective solution. Storage of dry ice in a home freezer will slow it's vaporization, but dry ice is hard to store ahead because doesn't have a long shelf life. Not many homes have freezers capable of maintaining -109°F.

Advantages
-Inexpensive, widely available material
-Easy to construct and maintain
-No risk of catastrophic failure
-Dry ice has slight cooling effect

Disadvantages
-Impossible to regulate evaporation
-Must be used immediately - has no shelf life
-Can harm skin if handled without gloves.

Soda/Acid

Baking soda and acetic acid solution, such as white vinegar (5% acetic acid), will bubble and foam when mixed. The bubbles produced are carbon dioxide. Unfortunately, large quantities of materials are required to produce carbon dioxide adequate for enrichment, making this solution viable only for very small closet grows.

To produce 1 lb of CO2 every day for our 512 cu ft test grow room, we would need to mix about 2 lbs (1.91 to be exact) of baking soda with 3.25 gallons of 5% acetic acid vinegar. As you can see, the costs for baking soda and vinegar would add up quickly. For a small closet or cabinet operation, it may be a workable solution though. A small drip setup can be placed on a top shelf of the closet, with the CO2 cascading down onto the plants (so long as it's not sucked out by vent fans).

Mixture of appropriate amounts of vinegar and baking soda will quickly fill a small room to acceptable enrichment levels. From there, a simple drip irrigation system can be created to steadily regulate CO2 levels, using a reservoir of white vinegar suspended over a tub of baking soda. A hose with a small pinhole is a good way to create a steady regulated drip. Calibrate the drip with a pushpin or small nail until the hole allows the desired amount of vinegar to drip through in a 24 hour period. An added bonus to this method comes from baking soda's odor neutralizing effect when left open to the air.

For slightly larger operations, 1 lb of carbon dioxide can be created from 2 lbs of baking soda and 1/2 gal of 33% muriatic acid, which is an chemical additive used in swimming pools. Although this is more cost effective, it is still more expensive than some of the other methods mentioned. Muriatic acid (a.k.a hydrochloric acid) is also highly caustic which can cause serious chemical burns if mishandled.


There are commercially available machines which produce CO2 this way, by mixing baking soda with muriatic acid using mechanized agitators. These units do not have regulators, solenoids, or pressurized compartments to store gas during the off cycle. Any jug made from plastic that can withstand a caustic material such as muriatic acid would be equally effective.

Advantages
-Easy to set up with simple, readily available materials.
-No risk of catastrophic failure
-Slight odor control benefit from baking soda.

Disadvantages
-Difficult to regulate during off cycle
-Can take a long time to build up a proper CO2 enrichment
-Materials can be expensive over time unless purchased in bulk.
-Some chemicals can be caustic.

 

[Hick]

cont.....

Breathing

The natural breathing of air by people is also a way to contribute carbon dioxide to an enclosed space. Some quick calculations show that one person breathing can actually provide a significant amount of CO2. Although the total lung capacity is approximately 7 liters, the natural tidal volume (each normal breath at resting) is about .5 liter (5000 cubic centimeters) per breath.

To convert cc to cubic feet, multiply by 3.531 x 10^-5

0.00003531 x 5000 = 0.17655 cubic feet of air

Since each breath made at a rest is 5% carbon dioxide:

0.17655 cu ft air x .05 = .0088275 cu ft of carbon dioxide

And since a person breathes approximately 14 times per minute at rest:

.008275 x 14 = 0.123 cubic feet of CO2 per minute.

Our room requires 0.8 cubic feet of CO2 to reach 1500 ppm, which it will attain after only 6.5 minutes of normal breathing. However, that enrichment is quickly absorbed by the plants. Assuming that we require 1 lb (8.5 cu ft) of CO2 per day for our 512 cu ft grow room:

8.5 cu ft / 0.123 cu ft per minute = 69.1 minutes

Thus to enrich our room to 1500 ppm day, one average sized person would need to spend approximately 70 minutes per day in the grow room assuming the room was completely sealed. Spending this much time at once could elevate carbon dioxide to unhealthful levels, but several stops in the grow room spaced out during the day (perhaps 35 minutes in the morning and 35 minutes in the evening) would keep CO2 concentrations elevated to optimal levels.

Of all the methods mentioned, breathing for CO2 enrichment is free and requires no special tools, additives, equipment, or skills. Breathing produces no unhealthful byproducts or hazards. Most gardeners spend a good amount of time in a grow area looking over the plants for bugs/disease, pruning them, mixing nutrients, admiring, etc. Entry to the room should minimize CO2 loss, through an airlock for example. As long as the space is well sealed and the air is vigorously circulated, normal breathing could produce all the C02 needed to enrich a small to medium sized room if it's visited and tended daily. One of the other supplemental methods can make up for times the gardener is away from the room for extended periods oftime. Working in any enclosed space requires caution and alertness to avoid asphyxiation.

Advantages
-Requires no tools, equipment, or setup
-Free
-Byproduct of being in the garden working

Disadvantages
-Multiple stops into the garden daily are required
-Slight risk of asphyxiation from being in an enclosed space too long
-Entry to room without an airlock will eliminate any gains.
Cost & Security Benefits of CO2 Enrichment

Plants in a CO2 rich environment can withstand and need much higher temperatures to derive any benefit. Inversely, CO2 enrichment can help mitigate ventilation and air conditioning challenges in grow rooms, common challenges faced by growers looking to minimize costs and maximize security.

Ventilation to the outdoors is a weak link in any secure grow operation. Exhaust to the outdoors can be detected by close neighbors, especially for growers in townhomes and apartment complexes. In many areas, a tip from a neighbor and detectable smell to the local constable or sheriff could constitute "probable cause" to get a search warrant. CO2 enrichment eliminates the need for excessive exhaust and thus the need for this breach in your security.

The primary operating cost of a residential grow operation is electricity. Reliance on high intensity discharge lights, fans, humidifiers, and pumps for hydroponic systems can nearly double a residential electric bill. Cooling a hot grow area to 75-80°F for normal growing adds another important but potentially expensive challenge. In many older homes, this could require additional electrical circuits, since each standard (15 amp) residential circuit should only power devices totaling about 1500 watts. CO2 enrichment eliminates the need for additional cooling above what's needed to maintain 95°F.

Notes & Warnings

CO2 is widely considered to be a "greenhouse gas", which is thought to be responsible for trapping the sun's radiation in the atmosphere and causing global warming. Commercially available CO2 is the by-product of industrial applications which reclaim gas that would have escaped into the atmosphere anyway. CO2 produced from combustion, fermentation or other means further increases the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere, albeit minutely. Enrichment with reclaimed CO2 is a more environmentally responsible method, however it is also the most expensive and logistically difficult.

Although CO2 is not a deadly gas, it's presence in an enclosed space can deplete the atmosphere of oxygen needed for human occupation, causing asphyxiation. Signs of asphyxiation include weakness, lethargy, dizziness and loss of consciousness. If a grower notices any of these signs for any reason, immediately leave the room and go to a safe space. If these signs then subside, the CO2 in the grow room is too highly concentrated and should be vented immediately.

Many of the methods described in this guide can be harmful or fatal if used improperly. The grower should use extreme caution when using any volatile compound, flame, or hazardous material. Consider emergency situations when designing your system. For instance, bottled gasses will explode or become deadly missiles when punctured or heated by fire. Fuel vapors in the atmosphere can explode suddenly from electrical arcs, open flames, even static electricity. Asphyxiation resulting in unconsciousness and death can occur quickly when a room is over-enriched. If you suspect any form of danger, get to safety first. No plant, CO2 system, or even a whole house is worth a human life.

 

[DonJones]

Hick,

Although CO2 is not a deadly gas, it's presence in an enclosed space can deplete the atmosphere of oxygen needed for human occupation, causing asphyxiation. quoted form the next to the last paragraph of your post # 15

it can be dangerous or even fatal if used improperly quoted from my original post #4

The two sure seem to say the same thing to me.

but to AGAIN reflect your real experience/knowledge... since it 'appeared' that you were once again, spouting some superior intellect or information. quoted from your post #13

It appears that maybe the problem isn't my real experience or superior intellectual knowledge, but your problem with my personality.

I'm sorry if I offend you, but if offending you keeps one reader alive or well, then prepare to be offended.

As to my REAL EXPERIENCE, I live in an agricultural area where low, or even no, oxygen atmospheres are used commonly to store produce, primarily fruit and potatoes. Every year we have EXPERIENCED, TRAINED AND CERTIFIED workers seriously injured or even killed by entering areas that have had oxygen levels reduced and replaced by various gases, one of which is CO2, even days after they have been reopened and supposedly flushed without verifying the O2 levels. Not rarely are they found carrying air packs that they didn't use because they thought the O2 levels were okay. Likewise, not infrequently do we read in the news where the same thing happened in a produce wholesale warehouse when ethylene (sic) gas is used to ripen bananas. Like CO2, that gas is also a naturally occurring gas that is helpful in the proper settings ant the prper levels, but very dangerous or even fatal at elevated levels.

Have I made my point or do I need to go on?

Not only that, the way you worded your explanation seems to me to contradict your statement that you weren't trying to stir something up. If you had really been seeking information, then why wouldn't you have done just like most people do here on the forum and ask for a source or explanation?

Sir, in my humble opinion, you need to apply the same standards to your own posts as you want to inconsistently apply to other people's posts.

Maybe you need to ask yourself, why someone took the time to create derogatory user ids her on the forum that seem to be a statement about your personality.

I have decided along time ago to just agree to disagree with you and let things ride, but you don't seem willing to do the same.

I RESPECT EVERY MODERATOR'S POSITION, AUTHORITY AND WILLINGNESS TO DO A THANKLESS JOB, BUT THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER YOU ARE A MOD OR JUST A MEMBER.

Respectfully, great smoking to you and every other member and guest!

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

Maybe you need to ask yourself, why someone took the time to create derogatory user ids her on the forum that seem to be a statement about your personality.

What does that mean? It makes no sense.

 

[HippyInEngland]

Maybe you need to ask yourself, why someone took the time to create derogatory user ids her on the forum that seem to be a statement about your personality.

I think this comment is seriously out of order.

What instantly comes to mind is that the name you are talking about was made 05-12-2008

You joined 06-02-2009

How would you know the name even existed?

Unless you already knew.

eace:

 

[DonJones]

HIE,

Because before I even knew Hick was a mod, I sent him some friendly PMs and noticed what showed up in the possible members list when I typed his name "Hick" into the address box. That sir is how I know about the names.


Deleted by DonJones after rereading.

But the difference is I admitted to the problem and quickly tried unsuccessfullyedited to correct error between trying to correct the problem and succeeding by DonJones corrected it rather than get smart about it or shining it off, didn't I. Incidentally, before you even start, my reply was an explanation of why it happened not an excuse. I still don't understand why when I type the same identical URL , without the HTTP stuff, into 2 different posts here on the forum, one will turn live and the other one won't. I can see that I'm going to have to edit any posts that contain a site address AFTER they are posted to watch for that and correct it immediately, not when someone finally notices it and lets me know about it so I can correct it. But it is better to know about it and fix it later than never, so thank you for bringing it to my attention.

If you find any other errors like that, please PM me so that I can learn of them immediately instead of stumbling across a post in at thread that I haven't posted on or reviewed in months. Thanks for helping me find and correct errors like that. I usually have to spell check my posts and/or edit them several times to make them intelligible to myself and I wrote them. If I can't understand what I wrote, then I sure don't think the readers can either.

THG,

I don't know if having caught my spelling erro in the one line that you mentioned would have made it clearer or not, but HER should have been "here on the forum".

The meaning was supposed to be, it took someone who was highly upset with hick's personality to take the time to create a meaningless member id that I would have figured would immediately be banned just to call Hick names every time they posted under it.

And as HIE pointed to, it happened around a year before I even knew this forum existed.

Also , since you and HIE have chosen to take this discussion away from the original topic and turn it into a discussion of the appropriateness of MY posts and ignore the issue of Hicks posts, maybe you as a moderator can explain to us members why it is okay to post "badassed" and its other tenses but it is inappropriate to misuse the same biblical term for a male donkey in other phrases like "smartxxx" or "halfxxxxx". Both of those slang terms were in general use and acceptance long before "badass" was. This is NOT an attempt to do anything except understand some of the strange rules here on the forum so that we can try to keep from violating them.

THG, If you want t discuss this issue any further, please PM me so that we can let the members read information that is applicable to the topic of the thread.

Great smoking everyone, and I'm sorry that I care too much to shut up and let people run on about potentially deadly practices without making sure that the readers understand the dangers and then can make informed decisions on whether or not to do it. I would rather offend someone every time I post a caution than sit back and assume that all of the readers know the dangers and let some one kill or injure themselves or someone else.

If that is unacceptable or inappropriate, then tell me so plainly and bluntly and I will be history because I do NOT belong on a forum where the reader's safety is of the utmost priority and well above political correctness.

Great smoking everyone and may this forum continue to provide good accurate and SAFE information, with or without me..

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

The meaning was supposed to be, it took someone who was highly upset with hick's personality to take the time to create a meaningless member id that I would have figured would immediately be banned just to call Hick names every time they posted under it.

No, it didn't take someone who was highly upset. It took someone who was infantile, immature, and malicious. Every mod has had this happen. Saying that it reflects on Hick's personality is totally uncalled for on your part.

There is no problem with pointing out hazardous conditions if things are truly hazardous. Baking soda and vinegar isn't going to kill anyone.