Organic dirt and chemical ferts

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Gooeydelta9

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I'm currently using foxfarm ocean forest combined with light warrior and their other organic soil(red bag) all 3 ingredients combined with lots of perlite. My question is if I use chem ferts will that kill all the live bacteria and microbes in the soil. I just have alot of left over ferts from last grow.
 
Gooeydelta9 said:
I'm currently using foxfarm ocean forest combined with light warrior and their other organic soil(red bag) all 3 ingredients combined with lots of perlite. My question is if I use chem ferts will that kill all the live bacteria and microbes in the soil. I just have alot of left over ferts from last grow.


Chemical fertz have quite the effect on microbial activity. They can easily kill the microorganisms in the soil. It is one of the advantages of organic fertilizers that they boost microbial activity in the soil. These microbes in return help in degenerating the complex compounds present in the organic fertilizers. Organic compounds and soil organisms have a symbiotic relationship. Just like plants and beneficial bacteria/fungi.
 
Gooeydelta9 said:
I'm currently using foxfarm ocean forest combined with light warrior and their other organic soil(red bag) all 3 ingredients combined with lots of perlite. My question is if I use chem ferts will that kill all the live bacteria and microbes in the soil. I just have alot of left over ferts from last grow.

BD is correct that chem nutes do not support many microbes, but it should not kill them all.
 
umbra said:
BD is correct that chem nutes do not support many microbes, but it should not kill them all.

Umbra is quite right.

Doing organic with slow release additives (meals and such), with chemical 'tweaks' as needed isn't going to hurt much of anything.

Or, did you mean organic soil and nothing but chem ferts?

DD
 
I've been dealing with these thoughts for awhile now, and one of the reasons that I'm happy I found MP. I'm a little upset with Fox Farm, because I find their feeding schedule misleading...or at least not optimum. They sell you a rich soil like FFOF, and then have you inhibit the micro life with the chemical nutes, or by adjusting pH with chemical adjusters. It's pretty pointless if you ask me. Also the reason that I plan on using 100% organic nutes from now on. I will use up what I have of the FF line, but then I will not be using it anymore, other than maybe the Big Bloom which is the only organic nute they offer. I however will probably not even use that if I can make my own tea for cheaper. It is misleading IMO. However if you are to use the FFOF and just let the soil feed the plant it is good for around 4 weeks before you have to add nutes, so your plants will at least veg naturally, before you have to add nutes.

Thanks to the guys here for opening my eyes up to this...I knew it but was fooled by the FF schedule and fast talking hydro store salesmen. I even asked the clerk about isn't it self defeating to add chems to an organic soil, and he says .......nah it won't hurt anything....lol...a sucker born every minute!

I will say that you can grow some good herb with the FF schedule.......but if you think for a minute that it's organic your wrong. If you want to use the FF nute line up there is no reason to use high quality soil, you may as well use a soiless mix IMO.
 
hey LL Grow big is semi organic. There line does not destroy microlife ;)
but I went down to using only big bloom as a micro booster. but I refer my soil mix with lots of dry ferts and just use big bloom to help boost up the micro life in the soil.
PS I never found much use for there feeding schedule. It's not optimum for MJ growing IME.
 
umbra said:
BD is correct that chem nutes do not support many microbes, but it should not kill them all.


That is also true.

But, without support they will not thrive or multiply, but those that do still survive, there life and culture depends on the concentration, and amount of times the chemical fertilizers are applied. That, and the brand/make of the chemical fertz.
I am sure there are some chemicals out there that are more gentle on the organisms, and won't do all the damage, or lack of organic support as other chemical fertilizers do.
 
One of the worst things you can do is flush your plants. If soil is just a dead medium, then using chem nutes and flushing make sense. If its alive and healthy, why would you want to kill everything? Plants dont have the ability to uptake organic nutes directly.
 
I think Umbras sig says it all :aok:
 
umbra said:
One of the worst things you can do is flush your plants. If soil is just a dead medium, then using chem nutes and flushing make sense. If its alive and healthy, why would you want to kill everything? Plants dont have the ability to uptake organic nutes directly.

Hey Umbra!

Are you saying that without an active soil, plants won't get any benefit from using organic nutes?

Thanks.
 
I'm actually quoting(not verbatum) micro biologists. But yes that is correct.
 
another note i picked up from "-REv" aka Rolanterroy for organic growing
(2) Your water MUST BE chlorine and chloramine free; you CANNOT bubble or boil out Chloramine as far as I know, and I had a lab near me where I tested this a lot. All you need is a cool dual carbon filter, or a Reverse Osmosis filter to deal with the chloramine issue. 100$ to your doorstep from a cool online source.
 
umbra said:
One of the worst things you can do is flush your plants. If soil is just a dead medium, then using chem nutes and flushing make sense. If its alive and healthy, why would you want to kill everything? Plants dont have the ability to uptake organic nutes directly.


Are you referring to the removal of all the Micro's, by flushing?
 
Mutt said:
another note i picked up from "-REv" aka Rolanterroy for organic growing



Where would the plant acquire chloride from, if not from water source?
 
BioDynamic said:
Are you referring to the removal of all the Micro's, by flushing?[/quote

Yes that is what I meant. I'm not saying that every single microbe will be gone, but they numbers and their food will be greatly reduced to the point that they are not longer beneficial.
 
umbra said:
BioDynamic said:
Are you referring to the removal of all the Micro's, by flushing?[/quote

Yes that is what I meant. I'm not saying that every single microbe will be gone, but they numbers and their food will be greatly reduced to the point that they are not longer beneficial.


Absolutely.


Since we're talking microbes I'd like to add some important and interesting facts about the relationship between micro-organisms and plants most aren't familiar with yet... Plants actually control and regulate the soil microbial community within it's rhizosphere through Root-Microbe biochemical communication. (Why it is so easy for man-made chemicals to disrupt and cause chaos in the communication systems. The plants will attract and repel according to it's own needs.



Exc.S >>>


Upon encountering a challenge, roots typically respond by secreting certain small molecules and proteins (Stintzi and Browse, 2000; Stotz et al., 2000). Root secretions may play symbiotic or defensive roles as a plant ultimately engages in positive or negative communication, depending on the other elements of its rhizosphere. In contrast to the extensive progress in studying plant-plant, plant-microbe, and plant-insect interactions that occur in above ground plant organs such as leaves and stems, very little research has focused on root-root, root-microbe, and root-insect interactions in the rhizosphere.

Our understanding of the biology, biochemistry, and genetic development of roots has considerably improved during the last decade (Smith and Fedoroff, 1995; Flores et al., 1999; Benfey and Scheres, 2000). In contrast, the processes mediated by roots in the rhizosphere such as the secretion of root border cells and root exudates are not yet well understood (Hawes et al., 2000). In addition to the classical roles of providing mechanical support and allowing water/nutrient uptake, roots also perform certain specialized roles, including the ability to synthesize, accumulate, and secrete a diverse array of compounds (Flores et al., 1999).
Given the complexity and biodiversity of the underground world, roots are clearly not passive targets for soil organisms. Rather, the compounds secreted by plant roots serve important roles as chemical attractants and repellents in the rhizosphere, the narrow zone of soil immediately surrounding the root system (Estabrook and Yoder, 1998; Bais et al., 2001). The chemicals secreted into the soil by roots are broadly referred to as root exudates. Through the exudation of a wide variety of compounds, roots may regulate the soil microbial community in their immediate vicinity, cope with herbivores, encourage beneficial symbioses, change the chemical and physical properties of the soil, and inhibit the growth of competing plant species (Nardi et al., 2000; Fig. 1A). The ability to secrete a vast array of compounds into the rhizosphere is one of the most remarkable metabolic features of plant roots, with nearly 5% to 21% of all photosynthetically fixed carbon being transferred to the rhizosphere through root exudates (Marschner, 1995).


As a consequence of normal growth and development, a large range of organic and inorganic substances are secreted by roots into the soil, which inevitably leads to changes in its biochemical and physical properties (Rougier, 1981). Various functions have been attributed to root cap exudation including the maintenance of root-soil contact, lubrication of the root tip, protection of roots from desiccation, stabilization of soil micro-aggregates, and selective adsorption and storage of ions (Griffin et al., 1976; Rougier, 1981; Bengough and McKenzie, 1997; Hawes et al., 2000). Root mucilage is a reasonably studied root exudate that is believed to alter the surrounding soil as it is secreted from continuously growing root cap cells (Vermeer and McCully, 1982; Ray et al., 1988; McCully, 1995; Sims et al., 2000). Soil at field capacity typically possesses a matric potential of -5 to -10 kPa (Chaboud and Rougier, 1984).
It has been speculated that as the soil dries and its hydraulic potential decreases, exudates will subsequently begin to lose water to soil. When this occurs, the surface tension of the exudates decreases and its viscosity increases. As the surface tension decreases, the ability of the exudates to wet the surrounding soil particles will become greater. In addition, as viscosity increases, the resistance to movement of soil particles in contact with exudates will increase, and a degree of stabilization within the rhizosphere will be achieved.

Due to significant advances in root biology and current National Science Foundation-funded projects on genomics of root-specific traits, roots are no longer considered an unexplored biological frontier. In contrast, knowledge of rhizospheric processes mediated by root exudates have not developed at the same pace; but the best discoveries have yet to come.


Hope someone enjoys the read :eek:
 
This thread interests me, as I also use FFOF soil. I really should go organic, but if done properly, the FF line of nutes does a good job.

Is there a line of organic fertilizers that contains all the macro, secondary, and micro nutrients?
 
BBFan said:
Hey Umbra!

Are you saying that without an active soil, plants won't get any benefit from using organic nutes?

Thanks.

Umbra said:
I'm actually quoting(not verbatum) micro biologists. But yes that is correct.

But chemically based nutrients will feed the plant without a biologically active soil?
 

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