Sick of the smog?? Urgent Read this!!

[Cook_]

Is Ethanonl really our future I believe so... If you think about it gas will kill us all because you still have to refine oil which still puts pollutinant into our air while the gas companys get rich.. With our minds im sure we can figure away to end this problem and end there dominance over the globe.. Views on this subject would be appreciated and maybe one day people will understand marijuana is a medicine and has values

 

[allgrownup]

Ethynol is nothing more than a veil of smoke and mirrors.

There are many ways to get away from fossil fuels. Electricity being FAR superior.

You have to ask yourself..."why ethynol" Its really quite easy to answer. you just follow who stands to reap the profits. Why change from a system that works? The companies are making huge profits and the governments are taxing you based on volume and many affluent people including the current US president are investing in hundreds of thousands of acres right now in Brazil for the ethynol move. They don't care about the environment, they don't care about your pocket book. They care about their interests. there will never be such a thing as "free energy".

If they cared about you and the cost, they would lower the tax at the pumps. Its only somethin like 60 cents or more a gallon.

There are many alternative fuel/energy sources all of which are better than ethynol. we could fuel all US demand for petroleum by flooding only 1/10 of the mexican sonora desert with ocean water, letting it sit and grow algae, and then harvest the algae and convert to bio fuel. So why not do that?

why not electricty when you can make a car run up to 60 miles an hour for over 100 miles on a charge? Easy, look how many petroleum products you use in just upkeep and maintanence. Oil changes/fiters, brake pads/rotors, transmissions, all these things in an industry would be eliminated by just going electric.

Just like the 5 companies in the diamond industry buy up al lthe "cultured diamond" patents to monopolise their market, the oil companies make darn sure to monopolise theirs.

Personally i don't believe in "Global Warming". its a political platform. 30 years ago we were all going to die from the next coming ice age. There are more livestock animals farting out CO2 emissions than cars. I don't see the government getting involved there.

 

[Cook_]

Personally I dont think you get it the whole point in using ethanol is because its a green fuel there is nothing costic in ethanol. And why would you flood 1/10th of land that is not ours then ask them to supply us the whole point in this argument is to be self efficient.. Not to go somewhere else and steal some elses supply of energy.. And to the remark about energy well with all the green house gases were emitting from turning oil into gas. I would like to see what stoney would say about growing hydroponic corn too be converted into ethanol because by far this is our only way from turning our metropolitans into deserts

Also grown up have you ever checked out the locoal forecast on the weather channel tell me what that looks like would yah

 

[allgrownup]

its not about "getting it". Its another point of view.

it doesnt make any sense to use corn. they don't plan on using corn now. they plan on sugar cane for the majority of the fuel.

and about flooding the desert.....its not being utilized now, its cheap, americans would invest and could support both countries, and we wouldn't be dependent on the middle east. Imports could be pumped directly in our own pipeline. Wow....the savings are like endless. That sounds like "self sufficient" to me. and stealing?????don't know what you mean there. I have personally seen greenhouses in mexico as far as you can see that are growing strawberries, tomatoes, etc. All imports into the US. All American owned and operated. It would be the same concept friend. There is now a company in australia entering the US market with regard to bio fuel as well. I'm thinking of ivesting a little mula in that.

Personally, i would like to see more research on Teslas theories. imparticularly harnessing energy already existing.

In my mind we should all be zipping around over grass freeways above magnets like bullet trains and roller coasters but hey.....i'm a stoner....and a dreamer.

 

[Red-Eye Jedi]

Personally i don't believe in "Global Warming". its a political platform. 30 years ago we were all going to die from the next coming ice age. There are more livestock animals farting out CO2 emissions than cars. I don't see the government getting involved there.

I was totally with you up until the whole "I do not believe in Global Warming" thing. But that is another point for another post.

Hydrogen engines are the wave of the future. Check this out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVhXrvCCILw

Unless everyone wants to get over their fear of nuclear technology. If this were to happen you could potentially see a car that would never need a new energy source ever.

 

[Cook_]

Naw fusion is the wave of the future the battery is what im interested in cause there has to be fusion in order to start the car in the first place unless hes gettin a strong enough current from the salt water hes using it seems interesting and inventive I wish there was more stuff on the subject and this is not running on H2O its running on salt water which would change the moleculer structure all together...

 

[AlienBait]

When you run the numbers, you will find that there is no way to produce enough ethanol to replace fosil fuels. Look at what is happening now. The price of milk is already going up because corn that would normally feed cows is going to making ethanol, so that raises the price of cow feed. Farmers are plowing under apple orchards and agave farms to grow corn, which raises the price of apples and taquilla:holysheep: .

This is happening with less than 1 percent of the auto fuel coming from ethanol. Imagine what would happen when if it were 100%.

Fuel Cells would work, except that to make the hydrogen that you need for the Fuel Cells, it takes energy. In fact, it takes more energy to make hydrogen than you can get out of it when you burn it.

Electricity-run vehicles are really the only way. The problem with that is around 70% of the electricty (in the USA) is generated using coal and natural gas,both fossil fuels that create smog and green house gasses.

Solar Energy: To replace the coal/Natural Gas, you would need to cover over half the land mass of the U.S. with solar panels.

Wind: Well, you need areas that have a constant (or near constant) wind and I remember reading that 80% of them already have wind generators so there isn't much room to grow.

Nuclear Energy: The only answer!:smoke1:

 

[Cook_]

When you run the numbers, you will find that there is no way to produce enough ethanol to replace fosil fuels. Look at what is happening now. The price of milk is already going up because corn that would normally feed cows is going to making ethanol, so that raises the price of cow feed. Farmers are plowing under apple orchards and agave farms to grow corn, which raises the price of apples and taquilla:holysheep: .

This is happening with less than 1 percent of the auto fuel coming from ethanol. Imagine what would happen when if it were 100%.

Fuel Cells would work, except that to make the hydrogen that you need for the Fuel Cells, it takes energy. In fact, it takes more energy to make hydrogen than you can get out of it when you burn it.

Electricity-run vehicles are really the only way. The problem with that is around 70% of the electricty (in the USA) is generated using coal and natural gas,both fossil fuels that create smog and green house gasses.

Solar Energy: To replace the coal/Natural Gas, you would need to cover over half the land mass of the U.S. with solar panels.

Wind: Well, you need areas that have a constant (or near constant) wind and I remember reading that 80% of them already have wind generators so there isn't much room to grow.

Nuclear Energy: The only answer!:smoke1:

What about making huge hydroponic farms I heard it cost the growth to mature corn into 60 days and with the new cellulose ethanol it makes it way more effecient? :chillpill:

 

[AlienBait]

What about making huge hydroponic farms I heard it cost the growth to mature corn into 60 days and with the new cellulose ethanol it makes it way more effecient?

It's been a few years, so my numbers may be off, but I remember doing the math, and if we were to take ALL the vegetation (trees, weeds, all the grasses in the opens space, etc.) in the U.S. and convert it into ethanol that would only give us enough fuel to last about a month. Also, to make ethanol, you need energy. Right now they are using coal (that's right, COAL ) to make ethanol. Sort of defeats the purpose. If you want to use ethanol as the energy source to make more ethanol, it would take 17 pounds of corn energy to convert 1 pound if corn into ethanol.

 

[Cook_]

ethanol is not made out of coal ethanol is anyother alchohol which means you break down the matter with a sugar then distill it also cellose ethanonal uses all the matter unlike the old corn ethanol method where they just used the corn cob we can now use all the matter from the corn product and how would you be able to calculate all the plants in the united states then make a fact that we couldnt do it thats like a massive goverment job not something one person can do

 

[AlienBait]

ethanol is not made out of coal ethanol is anyother alchohol which means you break down the matter with a sugar then distill it

I know how they make ethanol. What I said was that it takes ENERGY to make ethanol and right now, they are getting their energy to make ethanol from Coal.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0323/p01s01-sten.html

http://www.grist.org/news/muck/2006/05/26/unethacoal/index.html

 

[Cook_]

Cellulosic ethanol is attractive because the feedstock, which includes wheat straw, corn stover, grass, and wood chips, is cheap and abundant. Converting it into ethanol requires less fossil fuel, so it can have a bigger effect than corn ethanol on reducing greenhouse-gas emissions. Also, an acre of grasses or other crops grown specifically to make ethanol could produce more than two times the number of gallons of ethanol as an acre of corn, in part because the whole plant can be used instead of just the grain. That's good news because many experts estimate that corn-ethanol producers will run out of land, in part because of competing demand for corn-based food, limiting the total production to about 15 billion gallons of fuel. (Already, corn-ethanol plants--existing and planned, combined--have a capacity of about 11 billion gallons.) The greater productivity of cellulosic sources should eventually allow them to produce as much as 150 billion gallons of ethanol by 2050, according to a report by the National Resources Defense Council (NRDC). That's the equivalent of more than two-thirds of the current gasoline consumption in the United States

 

[AlienBait]

would you be able to calculate all the plants in the united states then make a fact that we couldnt do it thats like a massive goverment job not something one person can do

Very simple. You just get total biomass in the U.S. and calculate how much energy is stored in that biomass and then figure out how much energy is used by the all the cars in the U.S. every month burning gas.

I looks these numbers up a couple of years ago, but didn't save the links. I'm sure they are still on the internet some where.

 

[AlienBait]

The greater productivity of cellulosic sources should eventually allow them to produce as much as 150 billion gallons of ethanol by 2050, according to a report by the National Resources Defense Council (NRDC). That's the equivalent of more than two-thirds of the current gasoline consumption in the United States

Once again, what is their energy source to manufacture the ethanol? Coal?

Now if they were using Nuclear Power, you could get away with it, but if you are using Nuclear, why not just cut out the middle-man and make electric cars.

Of course, I read recently that cows manufacture lots and lots methane. Maybe we could plug the cows into the ethanol plants. OR just use the cows methane to run our cars.

 

[Cook_]

Lol you dont need coal to distill... Solar energy? pretty easy man all you gotta do is save up solar energy for 2 days for what 100-500 gallons of ethanol?

 

[allgrownup]

AlienBait......

i remember reading before that many of tesla's inventions/theories were founded based on research and info left by ancient civilizations as were many of the great inventors!

i recall reading a theory that pyramids were energy gathering sources and i want to say that Tesla proved the shape absorbed energy. Thus, one of the many theories of the great pyramids, that they were power sources. And of course, there have been pyramids unearthed in about every region of the continents.

in the study regarding this, they also used Native American Indian mounds as proof. Man i wish this was fresh in my mind...... I think they said these mounds were all over the US and that they stored seed in them. The seed stored in these energy gathering mounds had higher yields. They also tended their ill in them. These thousands of mounds throughout the US were all subsequently destroyed.

have you ever read or heard anything related to tesla and his energy theories?

 

[AlienBait]

Lol you dont need coal to distill... Solar energy? pretty easy man all you gotta do is save up solar energy for 2 days for what 100-500 gallons of ethanol?

Then why are they using coal now?

Edit:

It takes 76000 BTUs = 22KWh to make one gallon of Ethanol out of cellulose

http://www.carbohydrateeconomy.org/...ch_Energy_Does_it_Take_to_Make_a_Gallon_.html

The amount of energy from the sun at noon is around 100 Watts per Square foot.

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15858

Solar Panels are, at best 20% efficient.

http://blogs.sun.com/cohen/entry/solar_panel_efficiency_apparently_not

That means you have 20 Watts per square foot of usable energy.

So, that means you need a solar panel that is 1000 square feet to make 1 gallon of ethanol in one hour (at noon). You will need even more if you want to continue making it because as the earth spins, the energy you will get from the sun decreases and you can't make it at night. So, at best you might get 6 gallons per day with a 1000 Sq. Ft. Solar panel. On a cloudy or rainy day, it would be even less.

With those numbers, you would need 50,000 square feet (223.6 ft x 223.6 ft) of solar panels to make 300 gallons of Ethanol in 2 days.

How big of a solar panel and how long would it take to make the 150 billion gallons of ethanol using solar? I'll let YOU do the math. Don't forget to account for cloudy/rainy days.

 

[allgrownup]

My favorite Tesla Theory.... ELECTROMAGNETIC WAVES

He proved you could broadcast energy like you can broadcast frequencies. Thus, no need for power plants and electical lines. Electricity harnessed and BROADCASTED

 

[Cook_]

Telsa was a myth... Humbling a idea that one day changes check your stats brazil runs off 100% ethanol or has everyone forgotten that and there 100% efficient or has every1 forgotten that instead of saying something is impossible try and make it happen we are in the 21st century and I think about the kids that have to live in this world after us this isnt a global solution its a means for not being sufficient on others powers and making people we don't want rich rich that is all im trying to say Why not help our energy crisis instead of bashing everyones solution on how to get out of them?

 

[AlienBait]

Telsa was a myth... Humbling a idea that one day changes check your stats brazil runs off 100% ethanol or has everyone forgotten that and there 100% efficient

Not my stats. I showed my sources.

What's 100% efficent? Solar panels? Show me your sources.

By the way, Tesla wasn't a myth. He did exist. A lot of the things people claim he did was a myth though (Sorry allgrownup).

Also, I'm not bashing the idea. I am just showing why it is impractical and why we should spend our resources on a proven energy source: Nuclear.