From Lucas himself. (serious growers with patience only)

Im posting this because with everything ive read, Ive found a lot of contradictions due in part to the research done by Lucas himself.

However, after reading this guys posts, i must say, i just may have attained a new level of understanding marijuana.

READ EVERY PAGE. READ EVERY PAGE. READ EVERY PAGE. READ EVERY PAGE.

copy and paste this link, then delete the x's and pull up a chair, i wouldnt be stoned while absorbing on this level.

hxxttp://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/showthread.php?t=892

what new did you understand?

Impressed at his knowledge.

for example, watering soil.

I used to water until i saw an adequate amount of runoff.

Well, after reading, ive discovered that watering in soil should only be done enough to wet the rootball, not saturate the entire medium. Oxygen in the root zone is paramount.
Ive never had an overfert prob, or a lockout issue before, but basically the more frequently i watered with less nutrient solution the faster my plants are growing, and looking much healthier as well.

take it for what its worth, but Lucas is very well informed.

This is just one of the many examples of something i learned from this thread, and its working out better for me.

thedonofchronic said:

Impressed at his knowledge.

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me too, now read his thread and prepare to absorb some pretty anecdotal yet very informative posts that just may change your mind about some things.

Like giving nutes every feeding in soil at lower dosages.

crazy i know, but this guy has too many successful followers for it not to be worth a glance.

Ive been reading. most is on hydro setups
great link though, much appreciated.
ill keep reading for all the soil tips. I want
to grasp soil growing fully before trying other ways.

thedonofchronic said:

Ive been reading. most is on hydro setups
great link though, much appreciated.
ill keep reading for all the soil tips. I want
to grasp soil growing fully before trying other ways.

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The stuff about soil is why i read in the first place. Keep reading and he may change your outlook on some things

However, after reading his posts, ive spent quite a large amount of money on hydro gear and am going from soil to a full ebb and flow setup, ive the got the tools, just gotta get my feet wet in hydro, it will be a piece of cake, much easier than soil, and i know this without ever trying. Why? cause the proof is all around me, just had to open my eyes.

After all, It was common knowledge that SOG ebb & flow is the most effective way to grow with the largest yield per light, Lucas just proves it.

And personally, i think people should start in hydro then learn soil, soil is much more complicated imho.

Hydro just costs more to get the right supplies to do the job, overall its much easier compared to soil.

JBonez said:

After all, It was common knowledge that SOG ebb & flow is the most effective way to grow with the largest yield per light, Lucas just proves it.

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True that. The key to that sentence is "largest yeild per light" Most folks say per plant. I believe it is all about maximizing your space by dedicating 1 HID per what ever area (not usuing a light track) and then maximizing that light and getting the most out of it. I have tried numerous methods and usuing a "tray" is the way to go.

When I first started out, I did the simple ebb and flo with 4" rockwool cubes and load up the tray and flower em out short. I would get great yeilds. Over time, I developed my own "method", but used the same principles. This allowed me to get my plant numbers down, while still acheiving the desired weight. I still use that method today. Most of you have seen it, just a simple top feed ,drain set up usuing a basic ebb and flo equipment.

There certinly are other factors in maximizing your yeild, even usuing this method like canopy management. I don't think I have read too much from Lucas on that.

JBonez said:

And personally, i think people should start in hydro then learn soil, soil is much more complicated imho.

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I fully agree. Alot of folks have a fear of Hydro, and really, it is fairly easy.And, as JBonez said, I too think it is alot easier. The biggest issue folks have with Hydro, imo, is nuit issues. Too many folks try to add too many things into the mix and get the "balance" all out of whack. So, after a month of feeding, the plants start to burn up or just die.

Lucas came up with a simple yet effective "fool proof" nuitrient formula. In general, it will work for pretty much every strain out there. Folks started usuing it and with great success. I went by his formula for a number of years.
I have modified it a bit for my own needs. I do use a small amount of "green" GH, as I did notice in some strains, like the ones I currently run, perfoming better with a touch of green, escpecially during Veg. During flower, I eliminate the green altoghter at about week 4.

So, great therad JBonez, as Lucas is who I credit for alot of my sucessful grows. Not really so much as for his formula, but his way of thinking about growing.

Bottom line, the KEY to what Lucas is saying is simple....

Keep it Simple.

I would disagree that hydro is easier than soil from personal experience. True if done correctly the yiels are greater than soil, but soil is much more forgiving for the begginer. Plus there are much more equipment/start-up costs involved in doing hydro CORRECTLY. JMO

Friend-of-a-friend said:

I would disagree that hydro is easier than soil from personal experience. True if done correctly the yiels are greater than soil, but soil is much more forgiving for the begginer. Plus there are much more equipment/start-up costs involved in doing hydro CORRECTLY. JMO

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You touched on the soil being more forgiving for begginers. I think that alot of new growers trying Hydro feel that the more "nuits" you use the bigger/better the plant will be.

Here is a quote from Lucas himself

Lucas said:

imvho, there is no nutrient that you can use that will increase yield, nor is there an additive you can use that will increase yield.

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Says it all.

So, imho, it is not that soil is more forgiving, but new hydro growers tend to overdo the nuits.

I am just down with this thread.

I see that cost is a big factor in folks going to hydro.

Lets talk room first. You will have to buy the same equipment for Room conditions as a soil grow. Exhaust fans,carbon scrubber, lights, circulatory fans....
As far as Hydro tables, you don't have to buy the ready made plastic trays and res for high $$. You can make it yourself. My first "flood table" was made from plywood with a waterproof finish so the wood didn't rot. I think it cost me around $30 for everything. I was able to make the table to fit my grow area perfect. If you buy a Plastic tray, they only come in 4'x4'. 3'x3' or you can find 2'x4' and some other dimensions. With a self built tray, you can make it whatever fits your area. If you choose to flood and drain, just get the fittings (about $15) and drill out your tray to install.

For a Res, I used a $25 "kiddie" pool.

No way around spending money on a good feed pump. Spend the $$.

Your off and growing.

or money on a good PPM meter (very expensive), good PH pen (not too expensive)

I figured that soil growers also use PH and PPM pens for thier juice mix, maybe they don't? Been along time since I have done dirt.

my god norcal, i absolutely love the fact that we are on the same page (quite literally lol)

Yeah, yield isnt my priority, but its nice to get more, and since i have the wattage, environment and money, i might as well make use of it.

Its like having a Lamborghini and not breaking 80mph, ya know what i mean

The only reason i wouldnt suggest hydro for newbs is the high cost of equipage. Not that you cant do a complete diy setup, but for me, since this truly is my new passion, it was worth forking out the dough.

Lucas is so right, all the supplements people are using are being used to correct a problem, its almost a placebo for them.

The REAL secret to a healthy plant is its environment.

Air flow (cant stress enough)
Temp
Humidity
Lumen output

and lastly nutes, as the plants cant make use of the nutes if the prior conditions are not met.

I cant believe i spent 200 bucks on bloombastic, only to yield close to what i did my last grow with PBP bloom.

Wont be making that mistake again.

Yo norcal, i respect the heck out of your opinions brother, too bad we couldnt collaborate our knowledge, or should i say understanding of growing good pot in person, make for a good convo.

peace

Also this is what gets me mad.

With soil, i usually spend about 4 hours on days that feed or water. Reason is, the plants have to be watered seperately, and while waiting for the water to saturate the soil, im grooming, removing dead or dying leaves, inspecting for bugs and really just giving the plant some tlc.

Soil makes a mess. After a harvest i have to find a way to get rid of the massive root ball in the shape of a 5 gallon bucket.

Soil retains nutrients, and they accumulate in the root ball.

Soil also retains water too much for my blood. The roots are happy when you first feed, but as the available oxygen is spent, growth usually slows, and this is why hydro dominates. The plant takes what it wants, when it wants it.

Im no pro, but cmon people, i think that once you get soil down to an art, and i mean art by growing organically to the point that you ONLY have to add water, and not much at that. Then, and only then, would soil be more beneficial imho.

But, the idea of hydro from a logical standpoint simply cannot be beat.

Ok ill say my bit soil is easier to the beginner firstly ph is buffered so one can do without the cf or ph meters and just follow nute doses on bottle.
So saying this soil mixed with lets say some vermiculite and perlite at a ratio of 3rd soil 3rd vermic 3rd perlite and this in itself give the roots sufficient aeration.
As for the 5 gallon rootball well thats just your chosen method of using large pots obviously for large plants.
So in hydro the plants only take what they need leading to ec drifts constantly therefore leading to either more frequent res changes or what lots of people tend to do just top up and adjust which aint the way.
Who know what elements of what trace minerals from the intitial reservoir filling have been used-this in turn leads to all sorts of lockout over/under fert probs.
You still have pest problems in hydro their not just problematic to soil grows.
What i cannot get my head round is how people manage to under/overwater plants especially grown in soil.
Lastly jbonez do you do ebb and flow if so surely the clay pebbles are nuked out after a grow if so do you bin them or clean them and reuse.
Im not slagging lucas or you jbonez im just offering some insight to both styles.skallie alrite lar

Originally Posted by Lucas
imvho, there is no nutrient that you can use that will increase yield, nor is there an additive you can use that will increase yield.

take dutch master superbud from about 5 years ago my mate used this as did many others and his buds went from 2gm buds to 3-4 gms buds.
then onto canna boost although daylight robbery price wise it increases yields maybe not v's cost of the boost but it does work.
onto pk 13/14 again from canna try it then try without it adds to yield.

how long ago was this stuff written as we all know things move on growing wise take cervantes cannabis bible book what an absolute pile of crap my friend has proved most of his growing statements wrong regarding what and what cannot be done or achieved with marijuana and i was witness to most.
ps jbonez great thread btw but things move on so you cannot just accept what someone says as you did yourself you tweaked his method for your own style of growing.
skallie

i agree totally with the statement that jorge cirvantes book is crap, ive found so many contradictions in his book (he contradicts himself alot, just flip through the pages)

But your statement that nutrients increase yield??? Sorry, a plant will only use what its environment will allow. Im sure your friend saw an increase, but your statement is anecdotal and therefore doesnt really say much for your arguement.

For example, do you honestly think nutes matter in an environment like this?

64 degrees f
82% RH
6500 lumens per square foot


Nope, sorry, transpiration would be at a stand still, therefor nutes would merely sit in the medium, causing build up, lock out yada yada and so on.

now this is just a hypothetical situation.


What im saying is that nutes really should be the last concern as far as dialing a grow.

lets be honest, ive seen 2+ with GH flora M/B only, sea of green tho, but still, it shows how much hype is put into all these ferts.

Lucas gave you a breakdown of what a plant needs, and what a plant will absorb, you really cant challenge facts that astounding.

Your buddy most likely grew better than his previous grow, i seem to get better and yield more, but i seriously doubt its my nutes, in fact, im using the same nutes, so your theory is quite misleading.

skallie said:

Ok ill say my bit soil is easier to the beginner firstly ph is buffered so one can do without the cf or ph meters and just follow nute doses on bottle.
So saying this soil mixed with lets say some vermiculite and perlite at a ratio of 3rd soil 3rd vermic 3rd perlite and this in itself give the roots sufficient aeration.
As for the 5 gallon rootball well thats just your chosen method of using large pots obviously for large plants.
So in hydro the plants only take what they need leading to ec drifts constantly therefore leading to either more frequent res changes or what lots of people tend to do just top up and adjust which aint the way.
Who know what elements of what trace minerals from the intitial reservoir filling have been used-this in turn leads to all sorts of lockout over/under fert probs.
You still have pest problems in hydro their not just problematic to soil grows.
What i cannot get my head round is how people manage to under/overwater plants especially grown in soil.
Lastly jbonez do you do ebb and flow if so surely the clay pebbles are nuked out after a grow if so do you bin them or clean them and reuse.
Im not slagging lucas or you jbonez im just offering some insight to both styles.skallie alrite lar

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please quit posting in this thread, no offense but you clearly do not know much about growing, advising those that a ph meter in soil is not needed is not only stupid, but a sure fire way to hurt your plants. Even at recommended dosage which is way to hot, ph is usually well below acceptable levels, how the heck did you come up with that??????????????????????????????

Ph/tds drift in a res is a good thing, im not sure why you dont think it is, lol.
The drift allows maximum uptake at various ph's since some minerals arent absorbed unless in a specific ph range.

i could go on with your posts, but it would get tiresome, the things im saying are common knowledge, lucas isnt the only one i agree with.

For example, do you honestly think nutes matter in an environment like this?

64 degrees f
82% RH
6500 lumens per square foot


Nope, sorry, transpiration would be at a stand still, therefor nutes would merely sit in the medium, causing build up, lock out yada yada and so on.

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that's why that happened...awhile back. thanks JBonez