So They have been doing better. I adding more light today. Not much but enough for now. I changed it from 3 13w CFLs to 23w CFLs Accordingly to stats that's eqaul to 300w of light. Plus my LEDs. I don't estimate it as high as the stats say. It says 23w CFL = 100w. I estimate lower and say 23w CFL = 60w-70w of light. So it should be emoting about 200w of light with the LED. In a weeks after my transplant recovers I am going to add more CFLs and two more LEDs and should be good for the rest of the grow. Same thing I used to do when I grew a lot
Just wanted to get opinions on these
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Yeah. It's worked for me many times. I just add light as I need to. And now when it's close to Bloom I'll add a nice size grow light 250w bulb on top of the CFLs n LED. And they always bush up real quick and when it starts bloom the buds Coke in nice and fluffy and thick. I've always gotten either smaller yield with extremely potent buds. Or a really big yield with decent potency. I enjoy the beauty of growing tho. Either way. I wish I could grow a whole room full I would be in heaven. Lol.
The trifoliate is doing extremely well so far. Starting to get very bushy and fluffy looking. Can't wait until she is bigger and ready to bloom. She's going to be so beautiful with her triple leaf sets making her full of beauty!
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The Hemp Goddess
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Equivalent wattage is immaterial when growing. A 23w is a 23w. The equivalent is something they have made up according to how our eyes see light. Plants are only getting actual wattages.
grasshopper
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Yeah I have read that too. But I do believe a 23W CFL is way different than a 23w light bulb. Put the side by side and you can even see how much Brighter the CFL is compared to a regular 23w light. I have 13w CFL and a 60w reg Put them both on and compare and they actuall give off about the same amount of light. That's why they say they are eqaulevalant I understand there is a lot of controversy over that. But I look at it this way. Even with LED. My 13w LED is bright enough to light the whole room nicely. But switch it out with a 40w bulb And I can barely read a book in the room. So technically the LED and CFLs emit more light than regular bulbs. Which when growing it has been working great. Trust me when I say. If I could put large grow bulbs in the place I grow. I would. But I can't keep the heat low enough or electricity issues. So the CFL n LED combo is perfect for what I do. But I know there is a ton of controversy in the subject. I have a buddy that uses only 100w worth of LEDs. And he grows amazing medical MJ He gets single LEDs and made his light thing himself. It's like a screen with LEDs on it. He puts a few LEDs on the sides so the light gets to the bottom buds nicely and he gets some really nice grows
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The Hemp Goddess
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Yes, YOU can see more light, but the plants can't. You have got to understand that the way you see light is not the same way that plants see (and utilize) light. For instance, incandescent light is almost invisible to plants regardless of how much you have. Ditto halogens, which really really light up things for human eyes but do absolutely nothing for plants, ditto any green light.
Yeah I understand that. I know they don't see light the same. But for example when j first started growing I had regular light bulbs that supposedly they don't even see. Grew some decently nice plants. Then I tried fluorescent lights as normal Plant growers use them. A bit better results and I still had my plants growing under incand. Bulbs and they were doing just as good as the rest. Then I started experimenting with CFLs and LEDs and the CFLs grew faster and healthier than both reg bulbs and fluorescent both. Then I added a few LEDs and they started getting thick and growing great. Then I tried doing half Day CFLs and half day LEDs and my plants blew up really bushy and the rest of my grows I barely had to do anything beside water them. So I stayed with that's setup for a few years and then j had to stop growing for a few years. Now I'm using the same setup because of the small space I have to grow and little ways to ventilate extreme heat. I have ventilation but it would not handle extreme temps I have read a lot about the CFLs and I understand there's a lot of controversy about them. But I'm going with what's proven to me to work good. When I get a larger area I will do more testing it out against other lighting. But basically last time I did it. I had some Afghani blah blah seeds. Can't remember what the full name was. In one space I had a 500w grow light that was a friends He let me use his grow room while he was ON VACATION FOR 6mnths. Jail. Lol. And then my grow space I had my CFLs. I started with 4. 13w and eased up to 4 42w CFLs My CFLs plants had a slow but very healthy start. The Reg grow room plant had a rapid start but issues with plant sagging a bit a few times. But once it hit about 4weeks. Both plants for about same size the rest of the grow and both plants did pretty closely to the same As good as I could do as a test. I wasn't trying to test them. My buddy just went to jail and had me watch over his. So I planted two plants of the same strain to see if my CFLs would be a good grow. So 4 CFLs at 42x4= 168w. Versus 500w grow light And both plants did about the same. My CFLs I admit was a bit lower yield. But not enough to make a big deal out of t cus I saved so much electric I'm sure. Truth is. They work. Maybe not as well as everyone's expensive grow lights. But for the price difference and the electricity difference. I'd say the work pretty decent. And LEDs I want to do more playing around with
I want to do more testing and playing around with the wattages and stuff. I know others have done the tests and everything but I want to see it and play around with it. Document it and I'll put it on here somewhere for everyone to see it and maybe try it if they like
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The Hemp Goddess
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I encourage you to do more reading up on lighting. While you may believe that CFLs are cheaper, they are; not. First of all, they put out the fewest lumebns per watt of all the different types of lighting that we use for growing. This alone tells us that they are;more expensive to run....and you DO get significantly less bud with them.
I don't want to argue with you, but I have been growing for decades and started when fluoros were really our only options inside. If you are getting the same amount of product from 168W of fluoros that you get from a 500W grow light, something is wrong with with your grow. In a well dialed in grow space;, 500W of HPS or MH will ALWAYS out yield CFLs. However, I have never seen or heard of a 500W grow light? What exactly was it? Was it a halogen light?
Also, another thing to keep in mind with LEDs is that good LEDs are not cheap and cheap LEDs are not good. If you are going to experiment with LEDs, be sure to do your research. I am quite unhappy with the 700W Mars Hydro that I had high hjopes for.
I don't want to argue with you, but I have been growing for decades and started when fluoros were really our only options inside. If you are getting the same amount of product from 168W of fluoros that you get from a 500W grow light, something is wrong with with your grow. In a well dialed in grow space;, 500W of HPS or MH will ALWAYS out yield CFLs. However, I have never seen or heard of a 500W grow light? What exactly was it? Was it a halogen light?
Also, another thing to keep in mind with LEDs is that good LEDs are not cheap and cheap LEDs are not good. If you are going to experiment with LEDs, be sure to do your research. I am quite unhappy with the 700W Mars Hydro that I had high hjopes for.
KSL
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I applaud the experimentation, I've done a fair amount myself in order to maximize efficiency in small spaces. Instead of playing with 'wattages' though you'd be much better off putting your efforts into understanding how your plants use the light, experimenting with spectrum. The watts your lights use is almost irrelevant, it really only applies if we're all talking about the same kind of lights, same outputs in comparison with the power used. That unfortunately is not the case, CFLs are far less efficient than an HPS for example so 400w of CFLs will provide less light to your plants than 400w of HPS.
I suggest looking into Kelvin rating and PAR watts, that information will paint a much clearer picture of what your lights are really accomplishing.
And no worries. I'm not taking it as rude or mean at all. Everyone has there ways of doing things. And there's always going to be scattered opinions and different result for everyone. Yeah I've seen all that info. Need to study it a bit more. But yeah that's kind of what I was trying to simplify was a 13w CFL uses 13w of power. It has nothing to do with how much light it produces. That's why they say equivalent to 60w or whatever. I go by lumens. Of how much the light produces and if the plant can use it. Like mentioned by Hemo Goddess plants can't use incandescent light. But I've seen people grow with them and get decent buds. Not that I would attempt using them. But obviously the plants used the light cus they didn't die I like using the CFLs and LEDs combined. Yes I have to keep them closer to the plants in order for the right amount of light to reach it during Veg and Flower stages. basically as I was saying. Proper amount of Lumens is what we need for plants to grow good indoors A 100w bulb produces 1600 lumens. Same goes for a 72w Halogen bulb. As well as a 23w CFL bulb produces 1600 lumens. That is why they say 23w CFL is equal to 100w bulb. It uses 23w of power. But produces 1600 lumens. Same as a 100w bulb. A lux meter is awesome to have when growing period. It will help determine which areas on the plant aren't getting enough light or too much light. Lux equals how many lumens per square feet which minimum you need 15,000 lux during veg state and max of 70,000. . During Flowering it's 35,000 minimum and 85,000 max. Average you should have is 40k during VEG and 60k for Flower/Bud stage. I have around 28,000 now to my plants in Veg state. And when it flowers I'll double that for bud growth If I can attach the links Here are two pages that I used originally when I started CFLs and LEDs. LEDs can not be measured with LUX meters. So I make sure I have enough with CFLs and the LEDs just provide a little extra but I really like having Both CFLs and LEDs together. I like the results I get from the combination of the two. I understand that the MH/HPS. HID Light bulbs are more efficient for larger grows but for my small space of 2'x2' by 5' tall The CFLs are mounted in each corner 5" above my plants and the LEDs are hanging directly above them and of course the reflective plastic covering the walls to help with the light getting around to the whole plant. And it does. My one plant the bottom nodes and branches are growing out amazing. Everyone grows different. If I had a larger area and more plants I would be using MH & HPS lights
And the 500w grow light I was talking about was just an estimated number. I can't remember the exact wattage of his grow light It was my buddies that went to jail and I watched over his grow he started and he gave me his extra grow light and said it was like 5-600w. He had painted a kool design on it and the only words I remember seeing were There was two bulbs. One on each side. And the a vent on the top with a Fan in it. I think is was California something brand. It was setup for Grow and Bloom. One switch turned one bulb on. The other turned the second bulb on for flowering/bloom Being it was so long ago I can't remember for sure but I think One bulb was MH. and the other was HPS I believe. Or they we're both HPS. And just one for veg and double for flower. I only used it when I was watching over his grow and I added some plants and did a few experiments when I had it. Never paid much attention to it cus I sold it when we cropped and cured all the plants. So I never messed with it really. I remember seeing Nano something on it. I remember that cus my business is Nano now
KSL
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Lumens is measure of light that the human eye can perceive.
The spectrum of the bulb is also hugely important, you can't grow with light the plant can't use no matter how many lumens you have.
PAR watts is probably the closest thing to accurate we as growers can use.
As I said before looking into Kelving ratings and PAR watts is going to give you a better idea of how your plants use the light.
Yes I know all that as well. We're a bit off subject kind of I think. I was mainly just talking about why they say EQUIVELANT to a wattage. Because the lumens. A plant needs a certain amount of Lumens to be able to grow. Yes they also need the proper type of light. We're in agreement but wording it differently. My post was mainly about the CFLs being equal to a wattage They use only 23w but put off the same lumens as a 100w bulb would. That's what I was talking about. We know that the CFLs and LEDs put off the proper light. It was always a contradiction of how much light a CFL and LED puts off. And that is what I was talking about. Sorry if I confused or my wording was off. I type pretty fast in between doing things. So sometimes k get off subject.
I do think that growing with CFLs alone is not something I would recommend. But growing with CFLs and LEDs together. I love it. I don't grow huge plants. And I only can grow 4-6 at a time. For this small of a grow I love using the CFLs and LED combination I have grown very large plants with alternating MH and HPS lights. But I had a large spot and was growing in 55 gallon drums cut in half. So 27.5 gallon pots. But that was in high school and I lived in 70acres of land. I was growing the best weed in town my senior year. AK47 strain. Good memories. I miss the good soil I could grab from the backyard. Florida is too much sand. Gotta buy soil now.
I'll read more about kelvin ratings and PAR watts. I know a little about them but I was referring more to the lights.and how bright. Not what lights the plants need and use. Just so we're not confused. Lol.
Basically I was saying that when your looking at lights to grow. Wattages are just how much electric that bulb uses. It has nothing to do with how much light it gives off for the plants to grow. You have to have a certain amount of Lumens for a plant to grow. And the proper TYPE of light for the plant to be able to use it. Plants may not "use" lumens persay. But that's how WE need to refer to how big of light we need. Cus LUMENs is how WE HUMANS see the light. But what I mean is that saying the plants need a 1000w to grow. No. You need a light that produces atleast 15-20,000 LUMENS minimum for a decent grow. AND YOU NEED TO PROPER LIGHT FOR THE CANNIBIS TO ABSORB LIGHT. That's more was I was trying to say. Sorry if it's confusing or I said something wrong. I was trying to say basically the same thing
I do think that growing with CFLs alone is not something I would recommend. But growing with CFLs and LEDs together. I love it. I don't grow huge plants. And I only can grow 4-6 at a time. For this small of a grow I love using the CFLs and LED combination I have grown very large plants with alternating MH and HPS lights. But I had a large spot and was growing in 55 gallon drums cut in half. So 27.5 gallon pots. But that was in high school and I lived in 70acres of land. I was growing the best weed in town my senior year. AK47 strain. Good memories. I miss the good soil I could grab from the backyard. Florida is too much sand. Gotta buy soil now.
I'll read more about kelvin ratings and PAR watts. I know a little about them but I was referring more to the lights.and how bright. Not what lights the plants need and use. Just so we're not confused. Lol.
Basically I was saying that when your looking at lights to grow. Wattages are just how much electric that bulb uses. It has nothing to do with how much light it gives off for the plants to grow. You have to have a certain amount of Lumens for a plant to grow. And the proper TYPE of light for the plant to be able to use it. Plants may not "use" lumens persay. But that's how WE need to refer to how big of light we need. Cus LUMENs is how WE HUMANS see the light. But what I mean is that saying the plants need a 1000w to grow. No. You need a light that produces atleast 15-20,000 LUMENS minimum for a decent grow. AND YOU NEED TO PROPER LIGHT FOR THE CANNIBIS TO ABSORB LIGHT. That's more was I was trying to say. Sorry if it's confusing or I said something wrong. I was trying to say basically the same thing
T
The Hemp Goddess
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No, a 23w cfl does NOT put out the lumens of a 100w bulb--this the point. A 23W bulb is a 23 W bulb. I am not going to continue to argue with you on this, but like KSL, I suggest that you read up on lighting and understand how plants utilize light. Watt for watt, CFLs will never produce nearly as much as HID lighting simply because they produce about 1/2 the amount of light a HID does for the smae electrical usage. There are some things that are subjective and worthy of exmentation--the amount of light a certain bulb puts out is not.
I never said they were as good or put out the same as HID but I've done enough experimentation and research and tried even sending you the links about the lumens. The humans do see light differently than plants. Didn't argue. But a 23w produces
~1600lumens. A 100w incandescent produces ~1600 lumens. Here's the chart attached. There's no argument. So I don't know why your getting mad. It's a discussion. I double check it as a write it because everyone makes mistakes. We got off of the path a bit tho I wasn't ever trying to say they are the best thing to use. But even the Kelvkn Rating he was talking about. That's just the measurement of Hue within each different light. The Kelvin scale tells you what hue each light is. Which is why HID is the best route for growing in most case. But even the Kelvin rating mentions that it varies within different environments. Which is one of many reasons everyone gets different results Again. I was and am not trying to argue. There is a ton of room for experimentation within the light spectrums. Especially having a LUX/PAR meter really make it nice to test lights and play around. Move them in the right spots. No ring the light or plant 2inches can make such a huge difference. Now. I never said and I'm not saying that I'm getting as good of light as HID I know I am not. But according to the scale I followed for how much your plant needs I'm on the good grow side. Not as good as HID. I'm sure. But I've had great result. And continue to have great results. I'm not competing or I would have a complete different setup But the nice thing about having these in the tight area I have to work with is that I was and am able to move my lights and plants around while using the Meter to make sure my plants are getting the right amount of light to the entire plant and not just the top. And honestly. If I didn't have the meter to use. I probably would be using MH/HPS lights. And I understand what you were saying Hemo Goddess. I wasn't arguing. I was discussing what I have researched and the harts I use and that I want to do experimenting. It's hard to go off all research because there are many different results out there. That's why I encourage opinions. But don't get upset when others find documentation that is different. Doesn't make your wrong. It just is another result and another study someone did and got different results. By all means. If these charts are different from what you've seen. By all means. Post yours too cus t may help the next person who is searching for some answers. Anytime I post something with info that helps someone tho. I google it and fact check it first. Like I've done here too. But maybe I typed something wrong or mislead in some way. I haven't looked back over the messages. But here's the charts I have been trying to link. But I just took a snapshot to see if they are correct
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~1600lumens. A 100w incandescent produces ~1600 lumens. Here's the chart attached. There's no argument. So I don't know why your getting mad. It's a discussion. I double check it as a write it because everyone makes mistakes. We got off of the path a bit tho I wasn't ever trying to say they are the best thing to use. But even the Kelvkn Rating he was talking about. That's just the measurement of Hue within each different light. The Kelvin scale tells you what hue each light is. Which is why HID is the best route for growing in most case. But even the Kelvin rating mentions that it varies within different environments. Which is one of many reasons everyone gets different results Again. I was and am not trying to argue. There is a ton of room for experimentation within the light spectrums. Especially having a LUX/PAR meter really make it nice to test lights and play around. Move them in the right spots. No ring the light or plant 2inches can make such a huge difference. Now. I never said and I'm not saying that I'm getting as good of light as HID I know I am not. But according to the scale I followed for how much your plant needs I'm on the good grow side. Not as good as HID. I'm sure. But I've had great result. And continue to have great results. I'm not competing or I would have a complete different setup But the nice thing about having these in the tight area I have to work with is that I was and am able to move my lights and plants around while using the Meter to make sure my plants are getting the right amount of light to the entire plant and not just the top. And honestly. If I didn't have the meter to use. I probably would be using MH/HPS lights. And I understand what you were saying Hemo Goddess. I wasn't arguing. I was discussing what I have researched and the harts I use and that I want to do experimenting. It's hard to go off all research because there are many different results out there. That's why I encourage opinions. But don't get upset when others find documentation that is different. Doesn't make your wrong. It just is another result and another study someone did and got different results. By all means. If these charts are different from what you've seen. By all means. Post yours too cus t may help the next person who is searching for some answers. Anytime I post something with info that helps someone tho. I google it and fact check it first. Like I've done here too. But maybe I typed something wrong or mislead in some way. I haven't looked back over the messages. But here's the charts I have been trying to link. But I just took a snapshot to see if they are correct
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It wouldn't let me add the others. But. Yeah I know it's not the same for plants. I have the PAR meter and I believe I mentioned it and mentions LUX earlier. Like I said. I think maybe I typed something wrong or mislead. I was not trying to argue or say that they produce as much as HID I KNOW THAT. I was saying they produce same lumens as a 100w incandescent bulb. Not HID. I know plants can't use incandescent bulbs. But the CFLs they can. And LEDs. All I meant is they are good for certain situations. Like the one I'm in know I could not use MH or HPS without many large risks. Soon maybe tho. If I get to set the closet up how I want
