Led's

[WeedHopper]

Im looking into some Leds but right now im growing 3 autos outside.

 

[Hippie420]

He's not talking about led, but T5. My LEDs outperform my hps in everyway. Both 600 watts total. All lights performance drops off with distance, MH and HPS are no exceptions here.


Bubba

Even for penetration?

 

[OGKushman]

He's not talking about led, but T5. My LEDs outperform my hps in everyway. Both 600 watts total. All lights performance drops off with distance, MH and HPS are no exceptions here.


Bubba

Yes but LED intensity drops off with distance much much faster then HID. With a wattage meter and a lumen meter you can so easily see the math.

LEDs are real intense close, and useless at distance when flowering. At 4 feet your buds will be almost nonexistent.

Of course they will work, and work fine in tiny short type grows, but you can’t escape the fact that the intensity is lost at any distance much faster then HID.

 

[OGKushman]

There is more to the equation but the main reason light intensity at a distance, or canopy penetration, is so much better with HID has to do with the inverse square law. Intensity is inversely related to distance. One massive source of intense light reflected around creates much more scattered light and as a result is more intense at a distance then single beams of less intense non scattered light.

**not an artist

 

[Bubba]

Cocoforcannabissite in their reviews covers this with par measurements at several different heights. They also show for, iirc, 600watt HPS.

Early led had little penetration, and lesser flower results, but things have improved led wise.

With newer LEDs, I have had light bleaching

Bubba

 

[OGKushman]

I’ve tested for myself recently some “1000w” LED lights that use 220w at 120v. They do not do what they claim they do.

We all played with those cheap laser pointers before. They were about 0.3 watt and shine about 1/4 mile. Stack 1000 of them. You have 300 watts of laser right? should shine a laser dot a lot farther right? No, it will not. You still only have 1000-0.3 watt lasers.

A 300 watt laser would zap through steel. It would be seen at 25 miles.

You can’t stack LEDs close enough without melting the PCB and LED casings or filaments to ever get close to HID output per unit of distance. You also can’t reflect them like an HID to get uniform coverage. It’s against the laws of physics.

Get yourself a light meter and see for yourself.

 

[OGKushman]

I know we all want to be more efficient but in the real world you get nothing for free. Energy in energy out. With LED tech, unless some mega breakthrough is made, we will never see the lumen intensity per unit distance from the source per square foot of space.


That a lot of science I know, but also in the real world people grow just fine herb they are satisfied with using LEDs. And that’s great. It’s cheap. It works for them. I will not deny this. But it is not the most efficient when talking quality and quantity per watt used.

 

[WeedHopper]

So your saying HPS is a better light system all around?
My problem is Texas heat kicks that ass with HPS unless you have a really nice setup with AC.
I like my HOT5s for what im doing. I dont grow over 2 or 3 plants at a time inside or outside. Mine is all for personal use so im good with my setup. I am interested in looking into Leds though for added lights to see how they do with my HOT5s.
T5s do not put out a lot of heat especially in vegg with 6500k tubes. You can put your hand on them and not get burned but when you switch to 2700k for flower it puts out a little heat but nothing like HPS. And i can still keep them 4 or 5" from the canopy. And if you have a few T5s for side lighting even the lower buds look good.

 

[OGKushman]

So your saying HPS is a better light system all around?
My problem is Texas heat kicks that ass with HPS unless you have a really nice setup with AC.
I like my HOT5s for what im doing. I dont grow over 2 or 3 plants at a time inside or outside. Mine is all for personal use so im good with my setup. I am interested in looking into Leds though for added lights to see how they do with my HOT5s.
T5s do not put out a lot of heat especially in vegg with 6500k tubes. You can put your hand on them and not get burned but when you switch to 2700k for flower it puts out a little heat but nothing like HPS. And i can still keep them 4 or 5" from the canopy. And if you have a few T5s for side lighting even the lower buds look good.

What I’m saying is all things being equal HPS wins.

Put 1000w HPS light side by side in 2 separate grows with 1000 true watts (not equivalent) of LED in the other space and the HPS will give you more. I’m talking 1 1000 watt high pressure sodium versus ~5 of the 220 watt LED’s.

But I understand diminishing returns and if you can’t afford to grow then you don’t grow. And we can’t have that now can we. So I see where less then 1000w is required.

I’d 10% overdrive a 400w HPS and compare that to 2 of the 220w LED lights I tested if I just didn’t want to believe it. But I’ve seen 396 grams out of a 400w telephone booth.

 

[WeedHopper]

I can afford to grow my dank just fine my friend. And ill put my smoke up against anybody's when it comes to flavor and the high.
I do understand that the HPS will pretty much out do any of the other systems for flowering when it comes to weight. Not going to argue that point. You should sell HPS OG. Ill give you this brother,,you are defiantly fking persistent
I will say this though,,,i have seen some beautiful plants loaded with trichomes that was grown under LEDS. Its not always about the weight my friend unless your selling your weed. Most that grow for personal use or looking for a descent harvest with a great taste and awesome buzz and how they get there doesn't matter if they are happy with their dank.
Now i will argue if you try and tell me that HPS gives the best taste and buzz, because a lot of that has to do with the strain and some TLC,,not necessarily the strongest light system.

 

[OGKushman]

I can afford to grow my dank just fine my friend. And ill put my smoke up against anybody's when it comes to flavor and the high.
I do understand that the HPS will pretty much out do any of the other systems which is fine. Not going to argue that point. You should sell HPS brother. Ill give you this,,you are sold on HPS.

It wasn’t directed at you that was just in general if you put 1000 W HID in your south facing garage on the west wall, then it’s always 100° outside and you can’t cool your room. Then you add AC and now you have humidity condensing …on and on it goes so sometimes it’s best to do what works in your environment and in the end what you are happy with.

In winter here where I live it can get so cold and dry that I duct all my HID heat back in and welcome the increased humidity and heat but that’s not common for most. In summer though I am often struggling to keep my temps under 90 in the middle of their dark period but I’m not cooling my entire garage so there is a fine line we walk before the cost isn’t worth the effort.

 

[oldfogey8]

The inverse square law is a thing of beauty.

You can have the plant tops within a couple of inches of T5 bulbs. The inverse square law is a thing of beauty. I used 2700k mixed with 10000k and one with UV B. Got done nice buds too. There is always more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[boo]

I recently replaced a 1K raptor with a photontek LED system and am far happier with the end product...far less heat and almost half the energy consumption...my flowers have never tasted better and the trichs really pack it on...I've had excellent results with 4 1K raptors in 1 room when I was growing large but now in tents I can't see any reason to go back...my entry for bud of the month was grown under the 600 LED...

 

[OGKushman]

You can have the plant tops within a couple of inches of T5 bulbs. The inverse square law is a thing of beauty. I used 2700k mixed with 10000k and one with UV B. Got done nice buds too. There is always more than one way to skin a cat.

I use a single 24” T5 to keep 5’ moms alive. I use a 4 and 2 bulb T8 with 15 watt LED replacement for veg and they get bushy and tall. I know they will grow a plant and how well they will. I’m not trying to argue with a single person about your grow and how good it is, that’s a subjective thing to discuss. If it works for you and you are happy with the results then that’s all that matters right. Im not here to argue if it works. I know it works. It’s just not the most efficient like it’s commonly sold as.

you can’t argue with repeatable results using calibrated meters and simple math. I mean you can, but I won’t be part of that.

 

[Witchking]

Well I made a big investment in the garden today. I bought 2 Hyphotonlux 4000's 480W LED's for my tents. I pray this will cut down my electric bill but give me comparable results to HID lighting. I got one installed tonight and damn is it bright..Definitely gonna have to wear sunglasses in there when I work. Did loads of research and these seemed quite praised despite the cheaper pricetag. Even with that said. I paid more for lighting than I have EVER paid , so I hope these do me right.

 

[oldfogey8]

I use a single 24” T5 to keep 5’ moms alive. I use a 4 and 2 bulb T8 with 15 watt LED replacement for veg and they get bushy and tall. I know they will grow a plant and how well they will. I’m not trying to argue with a single person about your grow and how good it is, that’s a subjective thing to discuss. If it works for you and you are happy with the results then that’s all that matters right. Im not here to argue if it works. I know it works. It’s just not the most efficient like it’s commonly sold as.

you can’t argue with repeatable results using calibrated meters and simple math. I mean you can, but I won’t be part of that.

Sorry. I wasn’t trying to argue. I probably didn’t state my point succinctly enough. With fluorescent bulbs like a t5 or t8, your plants can be closer to the fixture without light burn than with HID bulbs. I have never grown with HID bulbs and from what I have read, they are the gold standard. If I kept my t5 fixture 3 feet from my plants, where the you are measuring the light intensity, I would have some leggy plants likely with almost lighter than air buds(the plant is it’s own light meter in a way showing lower light density as a function of distance with plant density being analogous to lumens). I agree that fluorescent bulbs are not as efficient as HID or LED lights for light density per watt of power used. My ‘more than one way to skin a cat’ statement was simply a statement of fact but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a best way to skin a cat(when it is dead vs alive - ). There are just a lot of variables involved but achieved outcome(skinned cat or nice bud) is all of our goals.

 

[OGKushman]

Sorry. I wasn’t trying to argue. I probably didn’t state my point succinctly enough. With fluorescent bulbs like a t5 or t8, your plants can be closer to the fixture without light burn than with HID bulbs. I have never grown with HID bulbs and from what I have read, they are the gold standard. If I kept my t5 fixture 3 feet from my plants, where the you are measuring the light intensity, I would have some leggy plants likely with almost lighter than air buds(the plant is it’s own light meter in a way showing lower light density as a function of distance with plant density being analogous to lumens). I agree that fluorescent bulbs are not as efficient as HID or LED lights for light density per watt of power used. My ‘more than one way to skin a cat’ statement was simply a statement of fact but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a best way to skin a cat(when it is dead vs alive - ). There are just a lot of variables involved but achieved outcome(skinned cat or nice bud) is all of our goals.

I keep my lights at 12-18 inches but I have huge tops all the way down to ~5 feet under the light. So I have a ~3-4 feet thick canopy with no bottom fluff.

You make my point on that the T5 just doesn’t have the penetration power to grow as tall and dense of a canopy. If you stacked 20-4’ T5’s in a 5x5x8 room it won’t be able to produce as much as a 1000w HID, and at 50w for each T5 that is 1000 watts.

We really are splitting hairs. I’m not trying to convert anyone to anything. I’m just using the tools I have to produce as much as I can per watt and I like to share that info.

 

[oldfogey8]

Yup. Light penetration is a problem with T5’s.

 

[WeedHopper]

True,,but I'm happy with my results.
This was one of my 1st grows with T5s. I later added side lighting and got even better results and no problems with heat.
And yes I know the HPS has better penetration but it also has a lot more heat issues that I don't want to deal with.
Besides I'm happy with my results and my dank so it really doesn't matter.

 

[oldfogey8]

There is a big difference between growing to sell vs growing for personal use. With my T5 grows, I was able to supply enough bud out of a 2x4x4 tent for me, my wife, my 2 sons and their friends with some left over for long term storage. A half pound or so is manageable for me. A couple of pounds would be a waste for me. I assume OG grows as a business and that is great and he has acknowledged basically different strokes for different folks. I will sit down and shut up now…